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Jeff Van Gundy would probably fit well. He's a defense-first coach.
No it's not. Shaq is not that great of a rebounder, especially in comparison to Marion. Also, a lot of their rebounds were long rebounds that Marion would snag, that Shaq has no chance at.
Jeff Van Gundy would probably fit well. He's a defense-first coach.
The problem isn't Amare. He's averaging 30.6 pts, 9.0 reb, and 2.2 blk in the first 5 games of Shaq's career in Phoenix. What's missing is Marion's hustle, and his effort on the defensive end.
They have moved up like 9 spots in the rebounding ranks since they got Shaq, so he is helping them there.
Statistically, the Suns have improved greatly on the boards since Shaq arrived.
Exactly, if you look at the Nuggets who up until a month ago were in a good position and climbing. Now, there non-existence defense has them falling out and may miss the playoffs.
D'Antoni is awful and should be fired immediately. Rick Carlisle would be my first choice if I was running the Suns.
I think it is Amare...every PF is getting isolations on Amare. He cant defend...he thinks scoring more makes up for his lack defense.
the one good think is steve kerr can blame the coach and fire him this year.............
http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2008/2/27/234914/751
Keep in mind the Suns have played 4 out of 5 games against elite teams since Shaq resumed playing, while the Mavericks have played 3 out of 4 games against the dregs of the League:
While it is still very early to measure the impact of Jason Kidd on the Mavericks and Shaquille O'Neil on the Suns, it is certainly not too soon to see if there are any early trends to pick up on. Two of the most important to use in gauging progress are offensive and defensive efficiency. Let's take a look at how the teams have changed using these broad but important measures.
By the way, I'm not a statistician, so I couldn't find any splits for efficiency pre- and post-trade, so let's just look at a less accurate but still relevant comparison: The efficiency stats to date (including Shaq's and Kidd's games) versus a general average of their efficiency since the new players joined each team. Stats are courtesy knickerblogger.com.
Offense
Phoenix already had a dominant offense before Shaq arrived, so it is not at all a problem if their offense hasn't improved with him in the line-up. In fact, their offense is so dominant that the Suns would probably have welcomed a slight decrease in their offensive production for a big improvement in their defense. So what happened?
Their offensive efficiency this year is 114.9, which ranks them No. 1 in the NBA by a wide margin. In the games since Shaq joined the team, the Suns efficiency looks like this: 122.8, 89.5, 90.5, 128.3, 104.0. So we have two very good games, a poor game, and two very poor games. This averages out to 107, which is a significant drop off in offensive performance.
Again, it is early, but the Suns offense certainly is looking like it took a hit with the departure of Shawn Marion and the arrival of Shaq.
The Mavericks offense for the year has been good, but not at all in Phoenix's class. In terms of efficiency, the Mavericks have a 112.5 efficiency, good for eighth in the league. But how have they been since Kidd arrived? Here are the numbers: 102.2, 106.5, 110.0, 102.0. The average over these games is 105.2.
So in what is probably a surprise to most people, the Mavs offense has gotten worse with Kidd in the line-up to a degree almost as much as the Suns offense has gotten worse with Shaq in the line-up. There are a lot of reasons for this, from the absolutely wretched performance of Josh Howard to the turnovers, but the bottom line may be tough to accept at this point, but it is true: Up to this point, the Mavericks with Kidd in the line-up are simply not as good on offense as they were when Harris was in the line-up. By the way, this certainly lends credence to Wes' point in an earlier post that Dirk's not getting easier shots, he's simply more focused.
Defense
Of course offense is only half the game. I am certain that coach Avery Johnson would gladly sacrifice some offense for a significant improvement in his team's defense, which has been mediocre at best this year. Has Kidd (and Shaq) sparked an improvement on the defensive side of the ball?
For Phoenix this is a critical question. Their athletic team has been able to overcome systemic defensive shortcomings in the past, but they just traded away their single best (and athletic) defender. Will Shaq's presence in the paint more than make up for this? Well, Suns fans, I'm afraid not.
Currently, the Suns defensive efficiency stands at 108.2, which is No. 15 in the NBA. The defense since Shaq has started playing has been absolutely dismal. Here are the numbers (lower is better): 128.7, 81.1, 122.1, 114.1, 121.2. Outside of the Celtics game, the Suns defense has been dramatically worse.
To put this in perspective, the average over those games is 113.4. The worst defense in the NBA belongs to the Knicks with a defensive efficiency of 113.1, and the Suns are worse than that.
It is a spectacularly different story in Dallas. In what I consider a surprise of monumental proportions, Kidd's impact on the team has been overwhelmingly on the defensive side. For the year, the Mavericks defensive efficiency stands at 107.0, around tenth in the league, and about as good as they've done for the season. How has the defense looked with Kidd on the team? Here are the numbers: 114.3, 90.2, 92.2, 94.0.
Outside of Kidd's debut against New Orleans, the Mavericks defense has been spectacular. Their efficiency with Kidd, even including New Orleans, is roughly 97.7. To put this in perspective, the best defense in the league currently belongs to Boston with an efficiency of 100.1. The defense with Kidd is a magnitude better than that.
The Bottom Line
So the real story with Kidd is that his presence has created a more fluid but significantly less efficient offense but has also led to a completely dominant defense. Somehow, I think Avery Johnson feels this is a welcome trade-off. For the Suns, they face the rather depressing situation where Shaq has significantly hurt their offense and absolutely cratered their defense.
The team is built for outscoring opponents. Not to match them up. That's the coach philosophy aswell. Nash can't guard anybody. Amare can't guard the elite bigs in the league. The basic premise is that they're both going to offset the defensive side with what they produce on offense. But then Amare gets loaded with fouls, and thus can't produce on the other end, and it all goes down from there. Marion used to make up a bit from that, being able to run and being so athletic. But with Shaq, that's gone.
And the biggest hurdle is that the coach still wants the play the same way. He won't go to Shaq on the post on a regular basis. He wants Shaq to play pick and roll with Nash to free Amare. Works for Amare, but the rest of the team is dead cold. Plus if Shaq happens to get the ball anywhere near the rim, they foul him, since he's such an atrocious free throw shooter.
I think the real solution to this team is to let D'Antoni go. Find somebody a bit more defensive minded. The pieces are there: Raja Bell is a good perimeter defender, and Grant Hill has shown he can play some defense too. Make people responsible for missing defensive assignments. Play the game inside-out.
I just think D'Antoni still believes in the whole 'saving the NBA' bullcrap and he won't give in.
I completely agree with you, D'Antoni is a horrible coach who doesnt know how to adapt or adjust.
well there is one defensive comparison that we can make between the two teams...
Suns gave up 113 points to the Grizz (Gay 14-27 fg, 36 pts)
Mavs gave up 83 points to the Grizz (Gay 5-15 fg, 18 points)
thats 30 less points
Well, Mike D'antoni kept saying earlier this year that Marion was able to guard five players. I guess maybe he really did guard five players. Heh.
Xylus, you were always one of the classiest Suns fans on this board and I feel bad for you because I'm sure you guys have been itching for a ring for years and stuff like this must really kill you.
Is it just me or is nobody doubling Shaq anymore? I think this is a much bigger issue than the Suns trying to play more in a half court. I would assume Kerr was trading Marion for Shaq because he hoped Shaq would continue to demand double teams to open the floor up for the outside shooters a la' Duncan.
This hasn't seemed to be happening. I also give Xylus props on not blaming Shaq for all the Suns problems, because like he said, Shaq is making a genuine effort, and his stats are about as good as you could hope for a 36 year old center.
I just think talks about the suns roster with marion and banks was so far off from making a serious le run that they had to sacrifice one of their biggest assets for an over the hill shaq.
Even if Marion was to leave in the offseason, you're trying to tell me no serious FA would wanna come play with Nash and the Suns in what is probably the most exciting offense in the league? , Brent Barry nearly went to the Suns based on the "fun factor" alone.
Last year, without the suspensions, who knows what would've happened. The Spurs usually have the Suns number, but it wasn't like we swept them or anything.
2005 the Suns were the #1 seed, but in fairness to them, Joe Johnson was out for most of the WCF.
2006, they had no Amare.
I just think the make up of the Suns team pre-Shaq wasn't perfect by any means, but they definitely weren't going to get swept in the first round or anything.
The Kurt Thomas trade onward definitely was the beginning of a series of mis management.
And yeah, I haven't even gotten started on Mike D either.
The Mavs are 10 X better on defense than the Suns, not too surprising.
Shaq's free throw inep ude is really killing them, I will agree with that.
Props on the use of "defenestrated."
Unlike some, I still consider Kerr to be a spurs' legend. He's always been a clutch spur and obviously he still is. He was sent over by Pop to destruct the Suns hope and he's doing quite a good job.
Now if only Avery could learn from Kerr, Ferry and presti.
You guys were ed with or without this trade. At least you can rebound the ball now. Raja needs to step up and do something offensively, the offense doesn't work without that 3 point threat. And wtf with D'antoni putting Shaq in the high post all the time. It's just stupid he's a horrible coach. As for Nash as good as he is offensively, he is horrible on defense. I love seeing every team just take it to Nash everytime. Just run your offense through whoever he's guarding. They might have to think about running a zone or something, that's how terrible their defense is. Nash definitely needs to stay in front of his man. No way they can do anything, with him allowing his man to go the hole everytime.
The Suns should start running a zone defense NOW. There is NO reason not to.
Q: What's been your best coaching moment?
D'Antoni: "Every team has something that you're really proud of. But when you get a team that really plays well together, whether you win or lose, that's what you're most proud of. They're unselfish, and they're playing basketball the way you think it should be played."
Great moment, D'Antoni. How about the time you said, "Let's go get 'em!"?
You play to win the game, Mike.
I agree. They will go back to getting crushed on the boards again, but at least they can get some offensive boards now. They really have no choice. Their defense is that bad.
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