Look out, boutons_ done found hisself a capitalist.
Welcome to the socialist world. llllllo Europe and
socialist medicine and the rest of their dumbass ideas.
I will keep what we got. Obama has hope and is
going to save us a bundle. Bundle=that is called
a shock when I was growing up, straw. You feed it to
cattle and it turns to what it is, BS!
fair point.
The FairTax is one of the most brilliant tax reform ideas to ever be introduced in America.
-Mars
I've noticed as often as DR and I disagree on subjects, he at least has a good mind on subjects. This is one of the few cases we seem to agree on.
Punchy? Having to pay susch taxes pisses anyone off. It's just not fair.
I too get real irritated at the taxes I pay. It is an utter insult to pay so many taxes and fees, then be expected to pay more, when others pay nothing, then get money back anyway.
There is one part of the Fait Tax I disagree with, and that's the prebate. I simply see the system as needing to eliminate the prebate, then also have no tax on the essentials. I would see such a system very fair.
The fair tax has a difficult time making any progress. Not because it's a bad system. It's actually a very good system. It won't make it's way trough congress because it take power and control away from out elected official. The tax code is so big because of the subsidies, tax breaks, etc. granted to special interests who donate to get what they want. This payment for tax favors would completely disappear under the Fair Tax.
I'm not solving any problems with anybody else's money.
the er come in here bragging and ing about his wife paying $30K in income taxes when the US HOUSEHOULD median income is only $37K. Somebody pass that whiner a Kleenex.
Actually, the embedded taxes are about 30% by some calculations. It certainly isn't that in all instances. Just the average. It means something costing $100 would now cost $76.92 give or take a little bit, after payroll taxes, corporate taxes, etc. are removed. $76.92 taxed at 23% is now the reduced cost plus $17.69 in tax. The new cost is $94.61. The proposal reduces that taxes for most people. Since the rich only end up paying 12% to 15%, they end up paying more rather than less. It also gets revenue from earnings of illegal activities like the drug trade and payroll under the table. It taxes most legal earners less, but is revenue neutral because of the other taxes it collects that go uncollected.
Consider removing the built in taxes of food and other necessities, then have no tax on them. Wouldn't you like to see such essentials cost less? Only pay taxes on nonessentials?
So what essential services do we lose with the lost revenue? What are we giving up?
Huh? That doesn't make any sense to me. Can you elaborate?
There is approximately the same revenue. No lost revenue.
It does not change state and local tax collection to any significan degree, only federal. States and local levels would likely follow suit.
Less federal money to states will mean the states will have to either pass it along to local municipalities or cut services. maybe the state increase fees to offset the loss? the cost of drivers licenses go up? wouldn't that all even out?
Yeah, but it all works out because illegals start paying into the system and rich folk can't use loopholes in the tax code to shift their money around and reduce their real tax rates...
Taxes are the resulting of living in a civilized society. Don't want to pay them, go live in the Amazon jungle.
Who's paying nothing? The ones that make close to nothing?I too get real irritated at the taxes I pay. It is an utter insult to pay so many taxes and fees, then be expected to pay more, when others pay nothing, then get money back anyway.
, that really doesn't make sense . . .
Maybe one day when you graduate home school and get a job in the real world and get your paycheck and do the math on what is taken out, you'll get it.
It used to piss me off to no end in college (I worked part time to help put myself through school on top of student loans) to see people come through my store (HEB) and be buying $500 in groceries using Food Stamps and yet they had nicer cell phones and clothes than me.
that, and I'm sitting there having my paycheck docked to pay for that .
I find your rants against the liberals on this forum extremely amusing, considering you are one of the worst ideologues here. You have this peculiar air of self righteousness about the partisan nature of this forum, but you seem to ignore or fail to recognize the pigheadedness of you and your conservative cohorts.
And you're genuinely unintelligent.
I find your rants against the conservatives on this forum extremely amusing, considering you are one of the worst ideologues here. You have this peculiar air of self righteousness about the partisan nature of this forum, but you seem to ignore or fail to recognize the pigheadedness of you and your liberal cohorts.
And you're genuinely unintelligent.
Im not understanding the point of for the fair tax.
So I dont pay my federal income taxes anymore. Cool. And living in Texas I dont pay state taxes anyway.
But everything I buy is taxed an axtra 27% which is cool because in the end I pay less taxes.
But rich people pay even LESS taxes because they dont spend all their money, thats why they are rich. I spend all my money so I pay a flat 27%, they spend 10 time what I do but they make 100 times what I do.. so they only pay 2.7%? Is that how that works?
Also I bought an 11000 turck and paid about 900 bucks in TT&L youre saying NOW I would pay over 2700 in Taxes for ym truck? So instead of 12K it will cost me almost 14k? That sucks. What if I can buy the truck now because its not worth that much? Now I cant buy a car. No Im hosed.
What about my house? Do I pay 27% on my house? And then do I pay ridiculous property taxes at 4700 a year as well? I can claim that now. But not under the fair tax right? Now I just pay it anyway. So in one year I paid 2700 in taxes for my truck, 4700 in taxes on my house and 27% 0f about 40k.
Let me add it up real quick.
27% plus 2700 plus 4700 is 18200 dollars. Well lets divide 2700 by 5 cause thats my loan length right? So its only 540 this year.
So I pay 16040 out of my 40k paychceck. Damn near half.
Right now I pay about.... 7K.
I like 7k.
No fair tax for me.
Why are you assuming such things?
The Fair Tax does not change where federal spending goes. It only changes how revenue is collected.
Rash, first of all, it's 23% not 27%. Then the truck should cost about the same because when the embedded taxes are removed, it costs less when the fair tax is applied.
Now I don't remember the specifics of property transactions, but that is done differently, and doesn't affect the price much either. The legislation has been out there. It is HR 25 in congress.
There are two books out on it now. "The Fair Tax Book" and "FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics." I have the first one, but haven't bought the second one yet. Looks like I need to in ordr to address some questions in more detail.
What is it that people don't get about progressive tax system?
You make more, you pay more taxes.
The thing is that most rich people don't pay under the income tax system. They pay taxes on dividends and capitol gains. They still pay quite a bit more in taxes than other people, even though they pay a lower rate. In the case of stockholders who pay capitol gains, 35% is already skimmed off at their corporate ownership level. They effectively are already double taxed.
The progressive income tax system is not fair. At the same tax rate, people with more money people pay more in taxes. Under the Bush tax cuts, the marginal rates for the middle class went from 15% to 10% or 28% to 25%. The lower income tax payers ended up paying 33.3% less in taxes. From 15% to 10%. When the democrats fail to renew these tax breaks, the lower income people who pay taxes will see an effective 50% increase from 10% to 15%. With the 2008 tax table, this is up to $16,500 taxable income for a joint return. With an 2008 estimated $10,900 standard deduction, and exemption of $3500 (x4) the gross income for a family of four can be up to $41,400 ($10,900 +($3,500 x 4) + $16,500). Now lets consider what a family of four pays with a 2008 income of $40,000. Their taxable income is $9,500. At 10%, this is $950 in taxes. If the Bush tax cuts were expired for 2008, this would now be 15%, or $1,425.
Notice at 2008 levels, a family of four pays no federal income at incomes of $28,900 or less.
I have to go, so I cannot finish where I was going with this. As feel-good as a progressive tax system is. It isn't fair. These people at $28,900 or less have no consequences for voting to increase taxes, or programs that end up requiring taxation.
How is the flat tax fairer than progressive?
Try this.
I make 10000 a year, I spend it all I get taxed 2300 dollars. I have a total spending power of 7700 dollars for the year. Crappy. And one HAS to spend all of it just to live
I make 100000 a year. I spend half of it I pay 11500 in taxes. I have a total spending power of 38500... but I still have 50000 left over that I put into stocks and bonds.
Luckily Im not taxed on that ever until I spend it. Which will be never because I will keep doing this for 20 years and retire living off the interest... in Costa Rica.
Luckily they dot have sales tax.
So in the 50 years of the poor persons adult life he paid a total of 115000 in taxes.
In 50 years of the rich guys adult life (20 of which he spends in this country paying sales tax), he spent 230000 so he paid twice as much... and made 10 times more.
Where as with the progressive tax system, if they just simplified the tax codes, it would be MUCH more fair.
Toss the tax code, remove the loopholes and tax people the progressive rate, give them a dependent tax credit and allow deductions for homes and remove things like the marriage penalty.
Then fore the IRS and get real people in there instead of unhelpful soulless robots.
I tend not to make an issue over the partisan nature of a political forum.... it seems to be a rather logical orientation for one.
There is a HUGE difference between income and wealth.
Rich people understand that. Poor people do not.
That's why poor people have to work super hard and then get up to 1/3 of their annual net worth seized by the government (as most people live paycheck to paycheck with very little savings) and rich people pay a very small percentage of their net worth as their assets (because of what they can borrow against them) make up the majority of their wealth--not the paycheck from their job.
That's why rich people don't pay a fair amount of taxes and the current system is broken.
value added tax is a bit different as it taxes a good at every step of production. example
farmer pays for pickle seeds $1.00
farmer creates pickle $1.50. manufacturer buys for this price.
manufacturer makes canned pickle $3.00. consumer buys for this price.
total worth of good is 3+1.5+1= $5.50, A VAT taxes at each step, consumption tax taxes the end.
The top 20% of income earners in the U.S. pay roughly 80% of the taxes.Taxes are the resulting of living in a civilized society. Don't want to pay them, go live in the Amazon jungle.
Who's paying nothing? The ones that make close to nothing?
, that really doesn't make sense . . .
MANY people, therefore, pay little to no federal income tax; even those who, especially relative to the rest of the world, make a very reasonable income - which is EXACTLY the dynamic you would expect in a democracy, I guess.
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