Lebron WOW

[ducks]

Eh, who cares if it was the Knicks.

It's a great production by Lebron. If it weren't, every premiere player would pull off that performance off against the Knicks.

no because most players do not need to go off on knicks to get a w
cavs suck and james gets ticked people do not not pick the cavs to go to finals

[JamStone]

A. Dallas is terrible at defending perimeter players. Lebron averaged 43 points a game against them during the year they made the Finals, and they basically handed D Wade a couple 40 point games a game during the Finals.

B. Kobe needed over-time and 27 free-throw attempts to do it.

C. 50 points and 10 assists is much harder than 50 and 10 rebounds.

Oh yes, Lebron>Kobe, by the way.

A. Kidd and Howard aren't great defenders (Kidd used to be and Howard sometimes is), but they're better than Q-Rich, Balkman, Lee, and whoever else the Knicks had to guard him.

B. Kobe wasn't trying to outdo anyone when he scored his 52, and whether you want to dog the Mavs or prop up the Knicks, the Mavs are a playoff team in the West and the Knicks aren't in the East.

C. 11 rebounds for a guard is just as impressive as 10 assists for a point forward especially when that point forward has the ball in his hands to initiate plays every possession. Plus, two of Kobe's teammates had 10+ rebounds as well. And, in order to get assists, your teammates have to score buckets. Against Dallas, Fisher (3-11), Gasol (5-14), Odom (2-8), Vujacic (3-12), and Farmar (1-6) shot 14-for-51, 27.5% from the field. Hard to get assists if your teammates cannot score.

D. Kobe scored a better percentage in each shooting category (55.6% FG, 67% 3PT, 74.1% FT) than LeBron (53.3% FG, 53.8% 3PT, 68.8% FT).

E. All I posted was "New York Knicks." I didn't say it wasn't impressive. I just typed "New York Knicks." Nothing else. Those who responded are assuming what I meant, when all I did was type something I knew would get a rise out of some people. And, predictably, it did. LeBron's night was amazing. And, he should be applauded and praised for it.

[DazedAndConfused]

Lebron will end up being one of the best offensive players the league has seen. However, that will mainly be due to his god given physical abilities. There just isn't anyone that can physically match him. He is as big as most power forwards and as fast as most swing-men.

My thing with him is I don't think he has the skills of Kobe and I'm not sure if he will ever get them. When it comes to foot work and fundamentals I honestly believe he is a few notches below Bryant. However, like I said above, his physical gifts easily makeup for this.

I see it as a prime Shaq versus a prime Duncan type of thing. No one could touch a prime Shaq physically which made the game easier for him and he dominated because of it. Duncan on the other hand doesn't have a big physical advantage against most big men and he works harder to gain his advantage. That is why Duncan is the big fundamental, he needs those fundamentals to be the player he is. Kobe is pretty much Duncan in the guard form.

^^This is probably the best take on the whole Lebron vs. Kobe debate I've read.

[TheNextGen]

Lebron is awesome...but not as awesome as #24

[TheNextGen]

A. Kidd and Howard aren't great defenders (Kidd used to be and Howard sometimes is), but they're better than Q-Rich, Balkman, Lee, and whoever else the Knicks had to guard him.

B. Kobe wasn't trying to outdo anyone when he scored his 52, and whether you want to dog the Mavs or prop up the Knicks, the Mavs are a playoff team in the West and the Knicks aren't in the East.

C. 11 rebounds for a guard is just as impressive as 10 assists for a point forward especially when that point forward has the ball in his hands to initiate plays every possession. Plus, two of Kobe's teammates had 10+ rebounds as well. And, in order to get assists, your teammates have to score buckets. Against Dallas, Fisher (3-11), Gasol (5-14), Odom (2-8), Vujacic (3-12), and Farmar (1-6) shot 14-for-51, 27.5% from the field. Hard to get assists if your teammates cannot score.

D. Kobe scored a better percentage in each shooting category (55.6% FG, 67% 3PT, 74.1% FT) than LeBron (53.3% FG, 53.8% 3PT, 68.8% FT).

E. All I posted was "New York Knicks." I didn't say it wasn't impressive. I just typed "New York Knicks." Nothing else. Those who responded are assuming what I meant, when all I did was type something I knew would get a rise out of some people. And, predictably, it did. LeBron's night was amazing. And, he should be applauded and praised for it.

[Thunder Dan]

Q to Cav fans: what happened between James and Pierce?

I think it was more PP not liking the attention LBJ got when he first came in the league. They got into it during his rookie year, and in James' second year PP and him got after one another in a preseason game and PP spit towards the Cavs' bench on the way to the locker room

[stretch]

^^This is probably the best take on the whole Lebron vs. Kobe debate I've read.

I'd have to agree with that take as well. But I think Lebron is actually capable of developing the shot and footwork that he needs. Shaq was just a big fat-ass that got away with pushing every ing play.

And the fact that Lebron is going ape like this and is only like 22 or 23... ing incredible. He has a long basketball future ahead of him to develop the skills that Kobe has right now. But at this point in each player's career... Lebron is WAYYYYYYYYYYY ahead of Kobe in basically every aspect. Kobe wasn't an incredible shooter his first several years either. He was basically like Lebron... has ability, and can get hot any given night from deep, but wasn't always consistent with it. It wasnt really till his 7th year in the league, that Kobe develop a pretty consistent deep ball.

Don't forget that Kobe also had the luxury of feeding off another superstar in his early years to get easier buckets. Lebron has never had a legit star to play with, and is completely dominating the league. True, in a sense, having Shaq may have taken away from some of his scoring, but it should still have made him a more efficient player, but Lebron has been a FAR more efficient player than Kobe was in his first several years, and with a FAR lesser team, is still a more efficient player than the seasoned veteran that Kobe is.

[hater]

it's against the knicks. he would have got inferior numbers playing at the YMCA

[E20]

New York Knicks.

Kobe got his 81 against a ty Raptors team, does that discredit his game? Pistons fans need to get over Lebron's beat down of them in the ECF and let it go.

And yes I read your 5000 long pargraph post defending yourself about saying "New York Knicks".

[stretch]

Kobe got his 81 against a ty Raptors team, does that discredit his game? Pistons fans need to get over Lebron's beat down of them in the ECF and let it go.

And yes I read your 5000 long pargraph post defending yourself about saying "New York Knicks".

[JamStone]

Kobe got his 81 against a ty Raptors team, does that discredit his game? Pistons fans need to get over Lebron's beat down of them in the ECF and let it go.

And yes I read your 5000 long pargraph post defending yourself about saying "New York Knicks".

If so, then you make no sense.

Also, yes, Kobe scored 81 on a ty Raptors team. LeBron didn't score 80 points last night.

It's as if Spurs fans never ever got on Kobe or Shaq back when that version of the Lakers were still big dogs in the West. Or, that Spurs fans don't love to hate on Dirk or Amare just because.

Get off the soap box.

Edit: LeBron was ing amazing. Is that what you want me to type? It's true. It doesn't mean I can't trivialize it, poke holes, or make fun of him and his accomplishments regardless. And, what I wrote, "New York Knicks," it wasn't inaccurate. It's fact that they played the Knicks. I didn't add any other to it but stated who it was against.

As for my "5000 long paragraph," only one part (section E) talked about my "New York Knicks" comment. It amounted to about 4 or 5 short sentences. Nice of you to wax rhapsodic as if you even had a point at all.

[JamStone]

Lebron will end up being one of the best offensive players the league has seen. However, that will mainly be due to his god given physical abilities. There just isn't anyone that can physically match him. He is as big as most power forwards and as fast as most swing-men.

My thing with him is I don't think he has the skills of Kobe and I'm not sure if he will ever get them. When it comes to foot work and fundamentals I honestly believe he is a few notches below Bryant. However, like I said above, his physical gifts easily makeup for this.

I see it as a prime Shaq versus a prime Duncan type of thing. No one could touch a prime Shaq physically which made the game easier for him and he dominated because of it. Duncan on the other hand doesn't have a big physical advantage against most big men and he works harder to gain his advantage. That is why Duncan is the big fundamental, he needs those fundamentals to be the player he is. Kobe is pretty much Duncan in the guard form.

Agree to a certain extent. Kobe, while not possessing the height and bulk LeBron has, is still one of the elite athletes in the NBA. Kobe still has superior athleticism and leaping ability and premium size for a shooting guard. There are plenty of times where Kobe uses his athleticism just as much as his polished skill to take over games. He uses both.

[DazedAndConfused]

There are certain things in basketball you either have or don't have, and I just don't see Lebron ever developing the style, grace, footwork, and fundamentals that Kobe has. Even a young Kobe wowed us because he was just so smooth and graceful on the court.

[E20]

If so, then you make no sense.

Also, yes, Kobe scored 81 on a ty Raptors team. LeBron didn't score 80 points last night.

It's as if Spurs fans never ever got on Kobe or Shaq back when that version of the Lakers were still big dogs in the West. Or, that Spurs fans don't love to hate on Dirk or Amare just because.

Get off the soap box.

Edit: LeBron was ing amazing. Is that what you want me to type? It's true. It doesn't mean I can't trivialize it, poke holes, or make fun of him and his accomplishments regardless. And, what I wrote, "New York Knicks," it wasn't inaccurate. It's fact that they played the Knicks. I didn't add any other to it but stated who it was against.

As for my "5000 long paragraph," only one part (section E) talked about my "New York Knicks" comment. It amounted to about 4 or 5 short sentences. Nice of you to wax rhapsodic as if you even had a point at all.

Thanks for wasting your time and writing another 5000000 long pargraph rebuttal.

BTW I personally never hate on any players, the rest of the Spurs fans do. I respect NBA/CBA/NBDL players, because they're so damn good and all the time they wasted working on their game.

[stretch]

[JamStone]

Thanks for wasting your time and writing another 5000000 long pargraph rebuttal.

BTW I personally never hate on any players, the rest of the Spurs fans do. I respect NBA/CBA/NBDL players, because they're so damn good and all the time they wasted working on their game.

No problem. I'm curious why you spend so much time reading posts that you think aren't worth reading. What's really worse: the hater or the hater of the hater?

[TheNextGen]

Thanks for wasting your time and writing another 5000000 long pargraph rebuttal.

BTW I personally never hate on any players, the rest of the Spurs fans do. I respect NBA/CBA/NBDL players, because they're so damn good and all the time they wasted working on their game.

How is writing 50000000 paragraph a waste of time?...it shows he knows how to answer back and prove a point. Its not his fault your rebuttles are 3 sentences long and dont back you up.

Kobe got his 81 against a ty Raptors team, does that discredit his game? Pistons fans need to get over Lebron's beat down of them in the ECF and let it go.

For example, what kind of 2 sentence rebuttle was that? You are comparing 81 points to 50. Last time i checked, someone scored 52 points couple days before against a Western Contender.

[E20]

Thanks for wasting your time once again replying to my posts. You guys obviously nothing better to do.

[TheNextGen]

Thanks for wasting your time once again replying to my posts. You guys obviously nothing better to do.

i replied to this one too...can you reply back pls. Just like you, im sitting at work doing nothing.

[Cry Havoc]

There are certain things in basketball you either have or don't have, and I just don't see Lebron ever developing the style, grace, footwork, and fundamentals that Kobe has. Even a young Kobe wowed us because he was just so smooth and graceful on the court.

So you're saying LeBron will never develop this because of... what, exactly? LeBron has incredible ball-handling abilities, and his jumper continues to improve. There has never really been a player like James, and no one to even compare him to outside of Magic, so I'm not sure what you're basing this on, especially when Kobe took a full 2 seasons to really become a great player. Even if what you say is the case, I'd still consider it a close match, because Kobe will never, ever have LeBron's court vision, despite James being several years younger.

[JamStone]

Thanks for wasting your time once again replying to my posts. You guys obviously nothing better to do.

pot.kettle.black.

I fully expect to read you scolding every fan in every thread criticizing, making fun of, or discrediting any good player. Go to work.

[JamStone]

So you're saying LeBron will never develop this because of... what, exactly? LeBron has incredible ball-handling abilities, and his jumper continues to improve. There has never really been a player like James, and no one to even compare him to outside of Magic, so I'm not sure what you're basing this on, especially when Kobe took a full 2 seasons to really become a great player. Even if what you say is the case, I'd still consider it a close match, because Kobe will never, ever have LeBron's court vision, despite James being several years younger.

Kobe actually has pretty similar court vision and ability to create for teammates.

Kobe plays in the triangle offense. It's predicated on pretty equal distribution among the players on the court to initiate plays. It has never been one to allow for one player to get the majority of assists. Mike Brown's offense is "give it to LeBron and let him shoot or create off the dribble." Gee, I wonder which player is going to average more assists... the guy that plays in the triangle or the guy who gets 50 iso plays per game.

Kobe plays lock-down defense. LeBron, improved but not so much.

[Cry Havoc]

Kobe plays in the triangle offense. It's predicated on pretty equal distribution among the players on the court to initiate plays.

And yet Kobe scored 81 points in a single game. Also, LeBron is getting double-digit assists with regularity, with a pretty sad team outside of perhaps Gooden. Besides, using the triangle offense argument opens the door to question the record differences between the teams. You can't say that the Lakers are that much better than the Cavs because of Kobe alone, but then give credit to the triangle for taking dimes away from Kobe. Either his teammates are good enough to warrant the more balanced attack (which means other teams can focus on Lebron more, making it harder for him to produce), or Kobe is doing it all and still not getting the assists. You can't argue for a better record as a reason for Kobe as MVP and then state that he isn't getting assists because the triangle shifts some of the focus away from him.

Kobe plays lock-down defense. LeBron, improved but not so much.

LeBron has shut Kobe down this year. And I agree, Kobe's defense is better, but LeBron's has improved vastly from last year. I have no doubts that very soon he'll be among the top defenders in the league.

[JamStone]

Well how great of a defender was Kobe at 23 years of age? I mean everyone is saying how fantastic Kobe is is compared to Lebron, um last time I checked Lebron hasn't even hit his prime which is around 27-28 years of age. It's not like they are both the same age Lebron is 23 and Kobe is 29! Every year Lebron improves and in a couple more years he will become a better defender too.

No doubt. But, when it's discussed, the debate is which player is better now. Can't predict what LeBron will be at the age of 29. LeBron will probably match or surpass Kobe by the time LeBron is Kobe's age. That doesn't mean he's better now. LeBron may very well go down as the greatest player ever to play the game. But, it's not about predictions and forecasting. It's about which is the better player now. Age factor is irrelevant because you simply cannot make them the same age or give them the same exact amount of experience.

[stretch]

Every year Lebron improves and in a couple more years he will become a better defender too.

IMO, when they both play their very best defense, Lebron's defense is actually better than Kobe's. He just doesn't play as hard on defense unless he really needs to, and when he did, he completely locked Kobe up, while Lebron was still able to score pretty much at will against Kobe's best defense.