Pop gets upset with all the criticism...

[Obstructed_View]

Even now when it's plainly evident his greatest chance for winning would be to slow the game down, run set, deliberate half-court plays and focus on hustling for rebounds and loose balls, he'd still rather force things. This is why the turnovers have been so high, which is the biggest problem the Suns have had on offense, and one of the contributing factors to their recent losses.

I disagree completely. They need to learn how to run with Shaq on the floor. They need to allow their defense to disrupt passing lanes and get their hands on the ball, knowing they have a shot blocker in the lane to allow them to gamble, then they need to press when they get turnovers and rebounds. Shaq needs to be told to hit Nash immediately when he gets a rebound; I noticed yesterday that he stands there and waves the ball around, allowing the defense to get back. They are getting turnovers because they are trying to run half-court plays that they don't know how to do and Nash is having problems knowing where people are. The biggest problem the Suns have on offense is the fact that some of their players think 2001 Shaq is on the floor. Once they realize that he isn't then they'll be better.

D'Antoni is a terrible coach though. I agree with you about that.

[JMarkJohns]

They are getting turnovers because they are trying to run half-court plays that they don't know how to do and Nash is having problems knowing where people are.

Exactly... They are forcing the same opportunistic offense as before within this new personnel, and it simply doesn't fit. If they ran more plays, then they'd know how, and turnovers would go down. If they ran plays, then Shaq and Nash would know where the player is, and where he's going to be.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run when the opportunity presents itself, but when it's not there they need to have the ability to convert in the halfcourt.

They simply don't have the personnel to do the things they've been trying. I didn't get to see yesterday's game beyond the first quarter, but I'd watched several of the other w/ Shaq games and what I've said is exactly what missing.

The biggest problem the Suns have on offense is the fact that some of their players think 2001 Shaq is on the floor. Once they realize that he isn't then they'll be better.

Which is where I'm coming from again... Since this isn't 2001 Shaq, they need to run plays for him once the clock has gone to 15 or below and a good shot isn't imminent. They need to run plays, because Shaq can't just dominate down low like he once did, nor can he run in transition the way he once could.

I can't believe that you'd defend D'Antoni's chaotic offense. I hope I read it wrong. Like I said in my quoted posts, it's too dependent upon the defense making mistakes, which, against better and better teams, just isn't going to happen often enough for their offensive strengths to offset their defensive weaknesses.

Throw some half-court structure and design into the offense and I think it takes advantage of their strengths more than the current offense is.

[Obstructed_View]

Exactly... They are forcing the same opportunistic offense as before within this new personnel, and it simply doesn't fit. If they ran more plays, then they'd know how, and turnovers would go down. If they ran plays, then Shaq and Nash would know where the player is, and where he's going to be.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run when the opportunity presents itself, but when it's not there they need to have the ability to convert in the halfcourt.

They simply don't have the personnel to do the things they've been trying. I didn't get to see yesterday's game beyond the first quarter, but I'd watched several of the other w/ Shaq games and what I've said is exactly what missing.



Which is where I'm coming from again... Since this isn't 2001 Shaq, they need to run plays for him once the clock has gone to 15 or below and a good shot isn't imminent. They need to run plays, because Shaq can't just dominate down low like he once did, nor can he run in transition the way he once could.

I can't believe that you'd defend D'Antoni's chaotic offense. I hope I read it wrong. Like I said in my quoted posts, it's too dependent upon the defense making mistakes, which, against better and better teams, just isn't going to happen often enough for their offensive strengths to offset their defensive weaknesses.

Throw some half-court structure and design into the offense and I think it takes advantage of their strengths more than the current offense is.

Apologies in advance for the misspelled words.

My criticism of D'Antoni has always been his inability to make adjustments, his unwillingness to develop his bench or to even get a remotely competent backup point guard, his inability to utilize defensive players (like KT) and his constant whining about the officiating, which betrays an almost SpursDynasty lack of understanding of the rules of basketball. His offense is the last thing I'd criticise about him. If he's REALLY on board with this Shaq thing rather than having had it foisted upon him, I think he can make it work. Pronouncing it a failure is ridiculous. It's been fairly successful at generating points since it was implemented (sp?). Shaq's even looking good in the pick and roll, a marked improvement since he's arrived. That's a good sign.

The offense IS too reliant upon opponents' mistakes. It typically requires missed shots or turnovers in order to run. It's very one-dimensional, but it's good for generating cheap points. Now it can be used as an additional weapon, and it has to be used as often as possible. When they learn when to use it and when not to it becomes a great asset (sp?).

Where D'Antoni's offense historically fails is in the last few minutes of a tight game when the team needs to a.)burn some clock and b.)get high percentage shots. That's where a few good plays and Shaq come in. You can still take advantage of the skills of the players around him, and if you're smart, manage to avoid too many Shaq free throw attempts, since he's no longer the focal point, but just a threat (and a GREAT passer). In addition, you have the ability to play real half-court defense. Couple those together, with the ability to run and generate points (when appropriate) and you should have a team better suited to actually competing for a championship.

[JMarkJohns]

I've never said it was a failure, and I admit the offense isn't all that bad, but when the offense is all you had to begin with, and it takes a hit and is no longer enough to win you games, then you must adjust your philosophy enough to get to the point where you can win the games your supposed to and compete in those you made the trade for.

We seem to agree on every other point. Where my point comes in is from you second paragraph through your posts end.

[Obstructed_View]

I've never said it was a failure, and I admit the offense isn't all that bad, but when the offense is all you had to begin with, and it takes a hit and is no longer enough to win you games, then you must adjust your philosophy enough to get to the point where you can win the games your supposed to and compete in those you made the trade for.

We seem to agree on every other point. Where my point comes in is from you second paragraph through your posts end.

I have a feeling that you were suggesting that he stop trying to force things 100 percent of the time. If that's the case then I agree with you. So long as there's no abandonment of the running offense go get easy points. I think Shaq has to learn to improve the running game while improving the defense and the half-court offense, but I think he can do all of that by the time the playoffs roll around. A motivated Shaq is as dangerous to opponents as an unmotivated Shaq is to his own team.

[ChuckD]

Not surprising. Pop sticks up for everyone, even that POS Larry Brown. While he is a font of b-ball knowledge, it would be hard to find a worse human being in the NBA.

[Obstructed_View]

Larry Brown is his best friend. Just FYI.

[JMarkJohns]

I have a feeling that you were suggesting that he stop trying to force things 100 percent of the time. If that's the case then I agree with you. So long as there's no abandonment of the running offense go get easy points. I think Shaq has to learn to improve the running game while improving the defense and the half-court offense, but I think he can do all of that by the time the playoffs roll around. A motivated Shaq is as dangerous to opponents as an unmotivated Shaq is to his own team.

That's precisely my suggestion. I want the forcing of the issue to stop when it clearly isn't there. If you've taken 10 seconds off the clock and haven't net your open shot through the opportunistic offense yet, then stop, set up, run a play and see if that will yield the shot.

, I'd bet if they did this several times a quarter, then their opportunistic offense would benefit as the defense might overplay.

I'm not a coach, but it's painfully obvious that constantly forcing the up tempo full-court/opportunistic half-court game isn't nearly as effective post-trade as it was pre-trade. At some point you need to play a little to Shaq's strengths and that's in a set half-court option. You don't have to do it all the time, but a minimum of a half-dozen times a quarter isn't that much to ask. Then Shaq has more of an effect on the offense, there's likely fewer turnovers, Nash doesn't have to carry the team when in all the time and you're better prepared for instances when you must run a play to be effective.

I'm just saying. I chalk this not happening yet in 10 games to D'Antoni's refusal to adjust.

[Louie Vega]

POPA should shut the up and go get plastic surgery. That is one UGLY son of a !!!!!!!!!

This face is responsible for shutting down the Forum!

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah I agree with that. What happens currently is that they seem to pass up opportunities to run (primarily because of Shaq at this point) and then try to make an opportunity that is no longer there.

But a bigger killer of their offense lately IMO, and the reason I incorrectly disagreed with your original point, is that they pass up opportunities to run and then don't bother to try to run the PNR or get Nash to penetrate and dish or set up a secondary break, but instead just throw it into Shaq and wait for great things to happen. If you are going to force one or the other at this point it's preferable to force the run than to hang your hopes on the post game of a 36 year old Shaq for the whole of crunch time.

The problems that they currently have can be solved by better awareness of their situation and better decision making on top of it, while utilizing all their tools.

[JMarkJohns]

Some of it may actually be that they are still getting used to each other, feeling each other out and figuring each's tendencies. If such is the case, then things should improve with each game. I've seen many a turnover where a Sun (namely Barbosa or Bell) start a back cut, start hard, then stop, faking out both the defender and the offensive passer resulting in a deflected pass, a steal or a ball out of bounds. If these were actual plays where Shaq or Nash knew the intentions of the player before hand, then those would get cut in half or almost entirely eliminated. It would still keep the defenders guessing and there is a ton of motion offense you can incorporate with backdoor cuts and fakes.

I agree they should run when there, but with the quan y of such's opportunities dwindling since the acquisition of Shaq, it just seems to me their offense would be far more productive if they had actual set plays for their backup plan in stead of trying to fit a Shaq-sized peg into a Marion-sized hole.

[RonMexico]

This face is responsible for shutting down the Forum!

Louie, I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I've fallen in love with the person in your avatar.

I sincerely hope it's not your wife, sister, or girlfriend. If it is any of those three, and it doesn't offend you, then I hope you take the above as a compliment.

[Borosai]

PRINGLES!!!

[bigfan]

I think this is CIA Pop again. Watching D'Antoni go into coniption fits on the sidelines is one of the Suns weakest links. If they had a less tempermental coach they might be better off.