Buck Harvey: Spurs aren't special when Manu isn't

[ploto]

Manu is trying to do too much. Seriously. And then when Parker gets his chance, he tries to do too much. The only person not trying to do too much is Tim Duncan, but he is not doing enough.

[2Cleva]

I don't think its Manu's scoring. Its his dual playmaking/scoring role. A guy like that is ultra-valuable and makes it so easy on everyone else. Easy to see how even a vet team like SA relaxes and lets Manu do it.

[Gino]

Manu is by far the most valuable Spurs. No offense to Duncan, but Ginobili is the key to the Spurs success.

Btw - What ever happened to Tony Parker? Remember at the beginning of the year when everyone was legitimately arguing that he was the second best point guard in the league?

What a dissapointing season he's had.

[2Cleva]

Duncan is the most valuable. He's that rock that allows Manu to do what he does.

[Gino]

Duncan is the most valuable. He's that rock that allows Manu to do what he does.

Believe what you want....I think Tim Duncan is starting to beomce a candidate for the Ewing Theory.

[carina_gino20]

Ok, my bad. Manu is freaking Jesus on a Spurs jersey.

Great. Just because we don't agree that Manu is the reason for the stagnant offense, we're freaking homers. Fact is, he sometimes does too much because he has to. When almost everyone else is sucking, what choice does he have? And as someone has pointed out in another thread, the Big Three only played 19 minutes together. A lot of Manu's points came when he had to play with the scrubs. Then, do you really want anyone else to shoot and clank when you've got Manu on the floor?

Manu's not perfect. One man can't just win this game. But to somehow imply that the guy who kept it close in the end botched the offense is just unbelievable.

[sassystriker]

I'm not saying Finley's slump is Manu's fault. I'm just saying these team can't win with Manu posting 40 and the rest playing like crap. I like it better when Manu puts up 20 and 8 assists than his 32 and 2 assists of list night.

Well, that's just the problem, everyone except Manu is playing like crap. Manu posting 32 and 2 is like a treasure with how this team is playing. We'd be way down if he just didn't step up. Besides, can somebody name anyone who is able to contribute enough to help us win? I mean, when he scored really big like the 46 and 44, every single point is counted in our win. So I'm kinda not complaining coz it usually ends up good, this time, it just fell a bit short.

As for the assists, I wouldn't be complaining bout that also coz Manu doesn't have complete control of that. Even if he did dish the ball out to an open guy and the shot isn't falling, he can't do anything about that. I bet if he can control that, his assists would be half his points already.

I WANT BALL MOVEMENT!!

[sassystriker]

Duncan is the most valuable. He's that rock that allows Manu to do what he does.

If you'd say that about Tony, I'd definitely agree. Tony just isn't that effective without Timmy. But Manu?! Nah-ah. Manu is just too good to depend his game to someone else. I mean, Timmy is good and he makes everybody's job (including Manu's) easier with all that attention he is getting but i'd say Manu can actually really play without Timmy, just remember the 37 and wins he posted while TD was out.

[2Cleva]

If you'd say that about Tony, I'd definitely agree. Tony just isn't that effective without Timmy. But Manu?! Nah-ah. Manu is just too good to depend his game to someone else. I mean, Timmy is good and he makes everybody's job (including Manu's) easier with all that attention he is getting but i'd say Manu can actually really play without Timmy, just remember the 37 and wins he posted while TD was out.

Over a small period of time, there are probably 30-40 NBA players who can carry a team.

But for the long haul - you need that rock if you want to be part of the upper echelon where SA is. Manu, as good as he is, isn't that rock that consistently makes an impact, regardless of the opposition.

[boutons_]

Spurs would have a much worse record, in the lottery NOW?, if Manu hadn't single-handedly taken over to save or outright win maybe 10 games, even before his string of 30+ pt games, as the rest of the Spurs stumbled around in a fog of uninspired mediocrity.

"Spurs aren't special when Manu isn't" will get no argument from me.

As Pop said so eloquently: "Because he's Manu Ginobili."

[cheguevara]

without manu Spurs would be in about 12th place in West

[jag]

I'm kinda getting tired of seeing manu and Tony putting up good numbers and Tim ending games with "10pt 8reb" stats. The rest can be argued for days.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Over a small period of time, there are probably 30-40 NBA players who can carry a team.

But for the long haul - you need that rock if you want to be part of the upper echelon where SA is. Manu, as good as he is, isn't that rock that consistently makes an impact, regardless of the opposition.

I'd say this is a reasonable statement. Yeah, pretty accurate

[sassystriker]

Over a small period of time, there are probably 30-40 NBA players who can carry a team.

But for the long haul - you need that rock if you want to be part of the upper echelon where SA is. Manu, as good as he is, isn't that rock that consistently makes an impact, regardless of the opposition.

Yeah, if you'd put it that way. Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan. He is that. He's already established as the "guy" of San Antonio. Spurs is basically his team. Of course, he is kinda the base of it all for the Spurs. I was simply implying that Manu can play great with or without TD. But I also think Manu creates impact when he plays, some coaches and commentators once said that everytime Manu plays, he never forgets to leave his imprints.

[bdictjames]

Spurs wouldn't have won all these championships without Tim Duncan.

Put Tim out of the Spurs, and you're real lucky if this San Antonio team is on 8th seed. Post players and defenders are very rare to find.

Spurs win against Chicago on Thursday. Book it. If they don't I dont post till the playoffs.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm not saying Finley's slump is Manu's fault. I'm just saying these team can't win with Manu posting 40 and the rest playing like crap. I like it better when Manu puts up 20 and 8 assists than his 32 and 2 assists of list night.

It's not like Manu hasn't had high scoring games with 8 assists as well.

Usually when Manu gets hot, he also involves his teammates and the defenses key on him opening up the other guys. I saw a lot of missed threes off of Manu's passes, so really Manu's stellar play doesn't play a factor in the team sucking. It's on the scrubs themselves. They just aren't stepping up right now.

[hitmanyr2k]

I'm honestly surprised Ginobili can play as good as he does getting jerked around so much. Just about every game it's something different. You're starting tonight. No you're not starting tonight. You're starting the 3rd qtr. No, you were too hot in the first half, let's sit you on the bench awhile longer and watch Finley suck a bit more. How many star players have an 18 point first half and then have to sit on the bench to start the 3rd qtr and watch someone like Michael Finley do absolutely nothing? People say Ginobili does too much but what is he supposed to do when he's sitting on the bench watching his team playing with their heads up their ass blowing a double digit lead? If the Spurs play like they're supposed to I doubt he would even try to force the issue all that much. He never has in the past.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm honestly surprised Ginobili can play as good as he does getting jerked around so much. Just about every game it's something different. You're starting tonight. No you're not starting tonight. You're starting the 3rd qtr. No, you were too hot in the first half, let's sit you on the bench awhile longer and watch Finley suck a bit more. How many star players have an 18 point first half and then have to sit on the bench to start the 3rd qtr and watch someone like Michael Finley do absolutely nothing? People say Ginobili does too much but what is he supposed to do when he's sitting on the bench watching his team playing with their heads up their ass blowing a double digit lead? If the Spurs play like they're supposed to I doubt he would even try to force the issue all that much. He never has in the past.

Good post, he definitely doesn't mind deferring when the rest of the team is playing well.

[sassystriker]

I'm honestly surprised Ginobili can play as good as he does getting jerked around so much. Just about every game it's something different. You're starting tonight. No you're not starting tonight. You're starting the 3rd qtr. No, you were too hot in the first half, let's sit you on the bench awhile longer and watch Finley suck a bit more. How many star players have an 18 point first half and then have to sit on the bench to start the 3rd qtr and watch someone like Michael Finley do absolutely nothing? People say Ginobili does too much but what is he supposed to do when he's sitting on the bench watching his team playing with their heads up their ass blowing a double digit lead? If the Spurs play like they're supposed to I doubt he would even try to force the issue all that much. He never has in the past.

Wow, you got it right! If i have three thumbs, i'd three thumbs-up you now. Good job.

[T Park]

So Ginobili should have an ego and do an Iverson?

[diego]

the point of the article isnt that the rest of the spurs suck, its that manu has to have a special game for this team to be elite (this season). we need other people to step up, precisely so we don't fall into the situation vanvannen mentioned, where we become a one man(u) team.

the ironic thing is that the first half, regardless of manu's 18pts, was precisely that- loads of assists, baskets/plays from just about everyone... and then we came out like in the 3rd.

[smeagol]

Over a small period of time, there are probably 30-40 NBA players who can carry a team.

But for the long haul - you need that rock if you want to be part of the upper echelon where SA is. Manu, as good as he is, isn't that rock that consistently makes an impact, regardless of the opposition.

Under your definition of "rock", not even Kobe is one.

When Kobe has crap around him, Lakers went to the lottery.

[1Parker1]

Manu was pretty special last night....32 points, Spurs still lost.

[smeagol]

I'm honestly surprised Ginobili can play as good as he does getting jerked around so much. Just about every game it's something different. You're starting tonight. No you're not starting tonight. You're starting the 3rd qtr. No, you were too hot in the first half, let's sit you on the bench awhile longer and watch Finley suck a bit more. How many star players have an 18 point first half and then have to sit on the bench to start the 3rd qtr and watch someone like Michael Finley do absolutely nothing? People say Ginobili does too much but what is he supposed to do when he's sitting on the bench watching his team playing with their heads up their ass blowing a double digit lead? If the Spurs play like they're supposed to I doubt he would even try to force the issue all that much. He never has in the past.

[smeagol]

Manu was pretty special last night....32 points, Spurs still lost.

I'm pretty sure he gives a damn about his 32 pts.

He would trade them for the W.