Jason Kidd Trade was a disaster

[himat]

That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

That's why the injury may be good. It will force Kidd to be a leader.

[Purple & Gold]

Exactly. Very well said.
This trade needs another year to be considered a failure. I'm a football player, and changing a QB during the season is the worst thing. Kidd is exaclty that. They'll give him players able to run, give him more freedom to run the offense and the mavs will be back to haunt the league.

Well with a 2 year window you really don't have the luxury of giving it another year. So in essence the Mavs traded away a very nice young PG, a serviceable big man, and 2 first round draft picks for a 1 year championship window. Way too risky and not smart at all IMO.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well it seems that some Mavs fans thought it wasn't needed or that Kidd would fix that.

That's because 90% of Mav fans are ing dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

[mavsfan1000]

It's also the same team that melted down in the first round of the playoffs despite winning 67 regular season games last year. The biggest weaknesses they had involved toughness and leadership, not slashing, shooting, and defense. They had slashing with Josh, Devin, and Terry. They had plenty of shooting from every position except center. They were an improved defensive team last year. Those weren't the things Dallas needed most. You're a Mavs fan and you're trying to sell that bull ? No way. Dallas needed a leader and needed someone who would lead amidst adversity. That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

Dampier got hurt and Dallas matched up very badly against a small but extremely athletic Warriors team. I could care less about leadership. Overrated. What is needed to find a way to combat that small ball lineup. I still don't think Dallas has that. Dirk's biggest flaw is allowing smaller player to abuse him. Stephen Jackson did that on both sides of the court. Dampier's biggest weakness is his hands and guarding the perimeter and big time athletes. Harris's biggest weakness is guarding big point guards. See what I mean about how bad Dallas matched up with Golden State?

[himat]

That's because 90% of Mav fans are ing dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

MJ would post guards all day.

[Purple & Gold]

It's also the same team that melted down in the first round of the playoffs despite winning 67 regular season games last year. The biggest weaknesses they had involved toughness and leadership, not slashing, shooting, and defense. They had slashing with Josh, Devin, and Terry. They had plenty of shooting from every position except center. They were an improved defensive team last year. Those weren't the things Dallas needed most. You're a Mavs fan and you're trying to sell that bull ? No way. Dallas needed a leader and needed someone who would lead amidst adversity. That's what the Mavs hoped they would get with Kidd.

They needed someone to score in the paint when the playoffs stifle running/jumpshooting teams. Much more important than trading for a "leader".

[himat]

I could care less about leadership. Overrated.

I am sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.

[Purple & Gold]

That's because 90% of Mav fans are ing dumb. The only team in recent history to win a championship without a legitimate low post scorer is the Bulls, and that's only because MJ was the greatest player of all time. After that, my memory gets kind of cloudy..

He's the only one and he also won in the watered down 90's. The League is much much more difficult now. (Plus Rodman and Grant were no slouches either)

[mavsfan1000]

They needed someone to score in the paint when the playoffs stifle running/jumpshooting teams. Much more important than trading for a "leader".

Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

[mavsfan1000]

I am sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.

Who cares about leadership if you don't have the horses to followup that leadership. It's about how good your players are. Leadership can be done by itself with good results. That alone will bring the team together.

[mavs>spurs2]

He's the only one and he also won in the watered down 90's. The League is much much more difficult now. (Plus Rodman and Grant were no slouches either)

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.

[himat]

Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

But Harris can't do many of the things Kidd does. PG can drastically change a team, so it goes both ways. A team may need to drastically change for there PG. I think if changes (playbook etc.) are made this team can start winning again.

[Purple & Gold]

Harris and Howard can both do that. Like I said, we had a championship team with Harris and Diop but not so with Kidd as he can't break down defenses like Harris does. Point guard is the biggest position on the court so any changes can drastically change a team.

You need post scoring from the 4 or the 5. And Diop, while I like him, is not a true legit low post scoring threat. (at least not yet)

[himat]

It's about how good your players are. Leadership can be done by itself with good results.

There is the mistake. If you want to win a championship in the NBA a team will have to go through 100 something games to get there. You don't think there will be rough times during that stretch? That's where leadership comes in. Leadership can be done with good results, but good results won't always come. In every team's championship run there is a moment where that team could have taken a step back instead of a step forward, usually there is more than 1.

[mavsfan1000]

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.

We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

[Purple & Gold]

Rodman and Grant were decent players, but because of their defense and rebounding, not low post scoring ability. Bottom line is the Mavs are kidding themselves and their entire fan base by trying to win a championship without low post scoring. It's like driving a car without gas, brushing your teeth without toothpaste..etc, we have the other pieces but we're still missing something important.

I didn't mean to imply they were low post scoring threats. (Well maybe Grant was to a smaller degree) But the offensive rebounds they could get (especially Rodman) more than made up for it.

And we agree about low post scoring. The way to a Championship still goes through the paint.

[arcticjoe]

damn it seems like the pistons fans are the only ones making a solid case for kidd. mavs fans believe the sky is falling right now..

personally i think harris was never going to reach his potential with dallas its nice to see him doing well in jersey since he has complete freedom over there.. something the mavs couldn't afford to give him. and i think that pretty much is the reason the trade happened for kidd they needed to give a vet and a real leader control over the team...

but its not exactly going to smooth this season and with his age you cant help but feel nervous and hopefully next season the team will be in more synch

[Purple & Gold]

We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

Sorry you're wrong. All teams need a low post player if they wanna win a Ring. Only Jordan did it without one. Jumpshots will not always fall and isos can be stifled with good solid defense. Gotta score in the paint if you wanna win it all.

[mavs>spurs2]

We don't need a low post player. We need better athletes at the 1 and 2 positions. We also need Howard to attack the rim more. Dampier gives us a few dunks in the post but to run the offense around the post doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for a team based around ball movement and isos.

Oh seriously shut the up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.

[mavsfan1000]

There is the mistake. If you want to win a championship in the NBA a team will have to go through 100 something games to get there. You don't think there will be rough times during that stretch? That's where leadership comes in. Leadership can be done with good results, but good results won't always come. In every team's championship run there is a moment where that team could have taken a step back instead of a step forward, usually there is more than 1.

Leadership and chemistry go hand to hand. If Dallas has the talent and chemistry, leadership is there than. I don't consider Detroit having a true leader when they won that one championship but they did it as a group. The coach (Avery) is a joke though so while I don't think a lot about leadership, the coach is very important with his decision making.

[Purple & Gold]

Oh seriously shut the up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.

Seriously it's ridiculous that some people think you can win it all with jumpshots and isos. Even the suns realized it wasn't gonna work.

[mavsfan1000]

Oh seriously shut the up you don't know basketball if you think any team doesn't need a low post player. Low post scoring takes pressure off everyone and makes it easy for these so called "athletes at the 1 and 2" to penetrate and do what they do. Name a championship team without a low post scorer. And for every team u name I can counter with 20 teams that DID have a legitimate low post threat.

Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

I'll agree that this team is talented enough to win it all without a Duncan or Garnett, but we do need SOME sort of low post scoring, even a decent/good player would do. We don't need another superstar, just someone to keep the defense honest IMO.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well I'll take Shaq (prime), Duncan, and Garnett but unfortunately they aren't available. I don't think too highly of anyone else being more than what Dampier is. Dampier does what we need. We shouldn't be running the offense around him as it will hurt us but getting loose balls, rebounds, defense, and put backs are what this team needs. It is a waste of breath to go after low post players as they won't be available. A shooting guard is much likely to be had.

I agree, they are VERY hard to come by..but so are championships. Tim Duncans don't just fall into teams hands very often but an Elton Brand type player would do just fine.

[Brutalis]

Why do you think we all cheered when the trade went through? Mav fans, take us more seriously.

Mainly, just me.