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John recruited some good players there and his recruiting skills showed as they shined this year.
Lateral? You're being too nice.
John recruited some good players there and his recruiting skills showed as they shined this year.
How many SWC les did they have in the 50s, 60s and 70s before he showed up? How many did they have while he was there?
Thanks for playing.
I was obviously joking.
Well, Eddie Sutton isn't going to be your next coach, so it's a moot point. Remind me: how many NCAA tournaments had Oklahoma State been to in the previous 25 years before he showed up? That's right... 1.
I'm sayin.. why waste my energy Capt'n, give me somethin good. It's getting warmer, you can at least hear the pads clapping.
I know.
1950 - 1975: 1 NCAA appearance
1975 - 1985: 9 NCAA appearances
1950 - 1975: 2 SWC les
1975 - 1985: 5 SWC les
1950 - 1975: 9 seasons over .500 in conf
1975 - 1985: 11 seasons over .500 in conf
1950 - 1975: 0 20 win seasons
1975 - 1985: 9 20 win seasons
All the "Yea, buts" and "Well what abouts" in the world don't change the facts. arKy was a piss-poor basketball program in the 50s, 60s and early 70s until he came along.
Timing? Coincidence? Luck? You know, it very well could be any or all of those; however the fact remains he recreated arKy basketball from the 5 single digit winning seasons (overall!) in the 10 years before he got there to an every-year NCAA team. Period, end of story.
Further proof: no matter what happened while he was at UK, you don't get a job like that by being a slouch at your previous job.
Sit a spell, children, it's story time.
There's been a certain buzz lately about a job. It's a position that just opened. It's a position that those "in the know" believe is a good job, but not a great job. It's a post those people say that only two have seen success at. It's a job that, they say, won't attract the high-level candidates. Basically, these people feel like the job is really tough, that no one would want it and, if someone fills it, they will have a huge mountain to climb to be successful.
What job is it?
No, I'm not talking about replacing Mike Rowe on "Dirty Jobs." The job in question here is the head coaching job of the Oklahoma State basketball program.
If your only source for information within the borders of the Sooner state is television, newspaper or radio, you are probably running around with your head cut off worried about the future of OSU hoops. After all, when you've just cut ties with a family largely responsible for the resurgence of the program, which was directly tied to the first guy who originally made it the program it is, I could understand the reason for concern.
But there's a lot more to this situation than that. And those standard media outlets are underestimating things. More on that in a bit.
Allow me to take an aside for a moment. As you may or may not know, most of the "established" media members in Oklahoma have ties to another school in this state. Which is totally fine, by the way. That was their choice. Many of them do a good job covering sports in this state in an even-handed way. Bob Barry, Jr. (KFOR-TV) is one of those. So is Berry Tramel (Daily Oklahoman). Unfortunately, there are others who aren't as neutral. And they all have a pulpit to opine about the OSU basketball coaching search. And they're all taking advantage of that stage.
OK, back on topic. With that as a background, many of the people I've heard in the media establishment are telling their viewers/listeners/readers that OSU isn't a top-level job, which is true. But they're also spreading something which is un-true, and that is that the job isn't super-great, either, only fair. Or solid. Or pretty good. But nothing more.
And why is that? I don't know. It could be their own personal biases coming through. It could be their honest take on things. Whatever the reasoning, it seems kind of goofy to me.
The fact is, after the super-huge, mass-traditional schools named Indiana, Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas and Kentucky, OSU is arguably one of the top basketball schools in the nation in overall tradition. Those other schools are top-level, A jobs. They're the ultimate destination for just about any coach in the game. As for OSU? They're on that next level. I call it the B+ level. They're amongst a group of schools with very solid tradition, just not on the level above. Let me elaborate.
First, a few facts about the OSU basketball program:
– 2 national championships
– 6 Final Fours
– 22 NCAA Tournament appearances
Those are some pretty gaudy numbers, right? In the college basketball landscape, they're some of the best.
Those two national les? Only five schools have more (UCLA - 11, Kentucky - 7, Indiana - 5, North Carolina - 4, Duke - 3). But where's Kansas? Tied with OSU. Yup, all those Rock Chalks and only two les to show for it.
How about those Final Fours? Only eight schools have more than the Pokes.
Those tourney appearances? OSU ranks in the top 20 in that category. (By the way, there are over 300 Div. I schools now.)
That's an impressive program legacy, no matter how you cut it.
On top of that, the program has respect amongst the national media. ESPN.com recently ran a story about OSU being named the 15th most-valuable program by Forbes Magazine. A few years ago, CBS Sportsline named Gallagher-Iba Arena the top collegiate arena in the country.
Yet supposed sports "experts" believe OSU isn't a top 20 job. Is it an elite job? No, but it's not the pauper program some would suggest. It's a very solid, near-elite school overall. Have there been some dry spans? Absolutely. But every program sees its share of ups and downs.
That gets us back to the issue at hand: What kind of coach will consider OSU? A wide array, I can assure you. Really good, established coaches will. Great coaches will. Young up-and-coming coaches will lust after the chance. Mike Holder will get plenty of bites. All you have to do is factor in the tradition of the program's history, the ability to go far in the tournament, a stunning facility known as one of the best, if not the best, and an athletic department which will support the program as well as any in the nation.
The point I'm getting at is this: Don't believe what the media moguls in this state are telling you. Bear in mind that at this point last year, many of those same voices were sure that the John Calipari era was set to begin in Norman.
OSU might not attract coaches that have won a national le yet, but ones with Final Fours on their resume are definitely possibilities. Those media types might think they have it all figured out, but judging from what has been put out there so far, most have proven they're not close to the situation at hand.
This should be an interesting search and seeing the kind of success that Holder has had in past endeavors makes me think that any name out there is a possibility. Others can choose to think whatever seems acceptable to them. Very soon, we'll all know what transpires.
The Oklahoma State Cowboys have never won a national basketball le.
Last edited by samikeyp; 04-03-2008 at 04:11 PM.
Those stats are from Sutton taking over Arkansas?
you're probably an 80's baby and don't know jack about the SWC..
Way to quote an article, but not the author, Mike. Of course, the only biased writers in Oklahoma root for the Sooners.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...a.crean/1.html
• People who are locked in on the possibility of Bill Self filling the vacancy at Oklahoma State are missing the boat. Self is not going anywhere, partly because he has an athletic director in Lew Perkins who will give him a sufficient raise to make sure he stays. The guy Oklahoma State is targeting first and foremost is Billy Gillispie. I'm hearing that the school, backed by billionaire oilman Boone Pickens, an OSU alum, is preparing an offer to pay Gillispie $3.5 million per year. I still think there's a better chance than not that Gillispie will remain at Kentucky, but with that kind of scratch on the table Gillispie would be crazy not to listen.
i don't see why the situation at KU would be significantly different than that at Kentucky.
KU is willing to pay for a basketball coach but Kentucky isn't??????
i doubt OSU gets either, but i'd see Self making the jump before Clyde.
By BILL HAISTEN World Sports Writer
4/4/2008
When asked to respond to media speculation that his client, Kansas' Bill Self, could become Oklahoma State's basketball coach, Tulsa attorney Stuart Campbell replied, "I never say never."
"Kansas is one of the top five jobs in the country," Campbell said during a Thursday telephone interview. "Any school that would (approach) a Kansas or Kentucky or Duke or North Carolina coach would sure need eye-popping type numbers (money)."
Campbell represents not only Self, but Kentucky coach Billy Gillispie, Norm Roberts of St. John's and Tim Jankovich of Illinois State. Gillispie and Roberts were Self assistants at the University of Tulsa. Jankovich was on Self's Kansas staff.
As OSU begins its search for the successor to Sean Sutton, who resigned on Tuesday, state and national media expect Cowboy athletic director Mike Holder to identify Self as the No. 1 candidate.
ESPN's Tony Kornheiser said, "I think (Self) could make a move. He certainly has to listen."
The support of billionaire donor Boone Pickens could place Oklahoma State in a position to be able to offer a big-money deal to Self, who played at OSU in 1982-85 and was a Cowboy assistant in 1987-93. The highest-paid coach in college basketball is Florida's Billy Donovan at $3.5 million a year.
Self currently makes $1.375 million a year at Kansas.
"If (OSU officials) were to ask me what they should do, I would suggest they go a different direction," Self said during a press conference on Tuesday. "I'm not being remotely disrespectful to my alma mater. My intentions are to be here at Kansas, period."
Campbell said his goal for Self and other coaching clients is "to make them the highest-paid coaches in the country, and in places where they can thrive. Every coach wants a national championship. Every coach desires to win. There are a lot of things in the formula. As an attorney, I look at what's best for my client."
On Saturday, Self's Jayhawks face North Carolina in an NCAA Final Four semifinal at San Antonio.
Asked whether he expects OSU to contact Self, Campbell said, "I honestly have no idea. I would expect Oklahoma State would respect Bill enough that nothing is going to happen until the season is over. When the season is over, then it's that time of the year (when schools hire coaches). I go through it every year, just about. It is a hectic time of year."
Since Self became the Kansas coach in 2003, no other school or NBA team has approached him with a job offer, Campbell said.
Again addressing the OSU possibility, Campbell said, "I am completely in a wait-and-see mode. I never say never. They would have to be eye-popping numbers.
"I know Bill is very happy at Kansas. He loves the fans at Kansas. But I don't close any doors, if I can help it."
Billionaire OSU booster wants Self
Posted: Monday April 07, 2008 06:33AM ET
According to numerous media reports, Oklahoma State is prepared to offer Bill Self, win or lose tonight, a salary of $4 million a year, plus a $6 million signing bonus. That would not only nearly triple the $1.375 million he makes at Kansas but would fly past the $3.5 million paid the current highest-paid coach, Florida's Billy Donovan. The impetus behind it is one T. Boone Pickens, Oklahoma State's $3 billion "booster." He donated $165 million to his beloved school's athletic department, which, in turn, gave it back to him to invest. That lump donation has grown to $300 million. Oklahoma State, in kind, renamed its expanded football stadium Boone Pickens Stadium. Pickens is also a caretaker of the school's image. He turned on legendary basketball coach Eddie Sutton after his drunken driving charge in 2006. That led to his resignation, and Pickens never warmed to Sutton's successor, son Sean, who was forced to resign after a 17-16 season.
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