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huh...that dont make sense....thats a bit of a reach.
Kobe should win it.
But we know where should gets you in this league, just ask Bowen.
huh...that dont make sense....thats a bit of a reach.
Thats what we thought about Billups... Reality is that Kobe is a seksier pick.
The MVP voting is a joke. It changes every year. Best player on best team? That was not the case with Nash winning the award. If the lakers win the west, I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe did not win it again. Kobe should have won the award when he had a record breaking season and scored 81 points in a game and singlehandily had fans interested in the NBA just to see what he does. There was not a more valuable player in the league for their team and the league that season than Kobe Bryant.
With the exeption of Nash in 06, which is the worst MVP choice in a long time (but he deserved 05), no one has won the MVP for leading an injured team to a mediocre record and #7 seed. Even most Kobe fans will say that 07 was not that great a season by him, especially when you consider what he did in 06.
Even most Lakers fans last year were arguing that they would rather see Dirk win it over Nash cause of the dislike for the Suns, but I don't think I ever saw a campaign for Kobe.
Therefore there was nothing shameless that a guy who was leading most efficiency ratings in the league, while leading his team to a 67-15 record, won the MVP. If anything it was completely logical. This is why it's revisionist history.
It's also why guys like Scoop and Hill, are blatant racists. Their hate for white players is very open. If it was the other way around (white writer, black player) not only would they be out of a job really soon, but they would be open to legal suits and more.
John Hollinger: Greetings everyone, one week to go and virtually nothing's settled out West. Let's talk about it.
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TJ (Plano, TX): What teams in the west have the best chances of upsetting a higher seed in the first round?
John Hollinger: I think you have to look at Dallas as a very dangerous No. 7, especially as Dirk plays himself back into shape. I'd give them the best chance.
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John (San Antonio): Your playoff odds predictor is pretty cool, I have to say, John. However, do you ever find yourself wishing you could add some sort of "experience factor" to the formulas? Or do you really think the Spurs only have a 3.6% chance of winning the le?
John Hollinger: I think that's actually about right. When you consider the odds of coming out of the West, and then the fact you have to beat Boston or Detroit when you get there ... it's hard to give them really great odds.
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Steve Wood (champaign, Illinios): Are teams gonna 'tank' to get the #3 seed so that they can play the Rockets in the first round?
John Hollinger: But in doing that, you give up home court advantage for the second round. So I'm not sure you really do yourself a favor by tanking like that.
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Matt (Fort Collins): Hi John...did the Jazz's dismantling of the Spurs impress you at all? Or just another home win?
John Hollinger: Of course it impressed me. I think Utah is really being overlooked right now, they could very easily win the West.
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Jake (Salt Lake): John, you have the Jazz with the best odds of making and winning the finals in the West (I assume that is because of their point differential). Knowing their home/road splits and the likelihood of them starting the playoffs on the road, do you think the playoff odds are accurate or would you adjust them? Thanks.
John Hollinger: No, I'd stick with that. Large home-road splits are often flukes, even though it doesn't seem that way when you're living through it.
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Riley (Las Vegas): What game will you be reporting from this week?
John Hollinger: I'm reporting from my couch this week, at least until Saturday when the Celtics come down to Atlanta. Letting the batteries recharge a little before the playoffs start.
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Lenny (Villanova PA): John, do you see Stephon Marbury's expiring contract as able to land a decent player for the Knicks next year? Also, would you give up David Lee if it meant someone taking on Zach Randolph's contract?
John Hollinger: Those are the two hugest questions Donnie Walsh has to ponder, and the answers aren't easy. Keeping Marbury around doesn't guarantee a Gasol-type deal will come available -- but if it did, wouldn't you kick yourself if you'd already bought the guy out? As far as the Randolph thing goes, the answer probably is related to how strong you think the odds are of getting LeBron or Wade in 2010, because clearing the cap space to do that means dumping Randolph's contract.
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Pat (Fort Morgan, CO): The Warriors are getting screwed by the 5pm PST start for the Nuggets game on Thursday. Why isn't anybody mentioning this? The arena will be half-empty until the third quarter.
John Hollinger: I'll mention it. And here's the really weird part -- they're doing it so they can show a Laker-Clipper game as the second part of the doubleheader. WHAT?!?!? For crying out loud TNT, move the Utah-Dallas game to the early game, and kill that awful turkey you have as the nightcap.
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Jeff (ATL): Would you consider an ATL lost to Indy tonight as a missed opportunity? I'm so nervous that the Hawks will botch this and NJ or Indy will make a miraculous comeback and take our spot at 8.
John Hollinger: ATL still has a great shot with a loss -- they play the Knicks and Heat, and the Celtics and Magic may be resting their starters, and a mediocre Indy team still has to pretty much run the table. But winning tonight would make things much, much easier, yes -- Indy would be eliminated and NJ would be 99% of the way there.
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Kevin(La Habar, CA): Derrick Rose over Beasley for top pick after Final Four?
John Hollinger: Rose is a heck of a player, but I thought the final showcased the one thing Beasley does much better than Rose -- score.
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Josh, Ottawa U: I'm really afraid for the Raptors. They've looked horrible for about a month, is there enough time to turn it around and make some playoff noise or are they're weaknesses just too obvious?
John Hollinger: I'd be really afraid too. If they end up at No. 7 they're dead meat, and even at No. 6 it's hard to be too excited about their chances.
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Jeff (LA, CA): The Lakers beat the Jazz on the road without their 2nd and 3rd best player and the Jazz are below .500 on the road yet you have them as most likely to win the West??
John Hollinger: L.A.'s win in Utah was very impressive ... but it was one game out of 82. We could just as easily focus on the Lakers' losing at home to Memphis. Utah has the top point differential in the West and has played the best over the past month and a half or so, so that's why the odds favor them.
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James (PA): In response to the question about tanking to get the 6 seed to face houston. It's just as likely Houston is the 5 and Suns are the 6. Houston is a game up on them and if Houston can beat Phoenix it's all but clinched.
John Hollinger: Great point. That game is in Houston, too.
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Gus (Pensacola): Is Dirk Nowitzki human? How in the world does someone recover from a high ankle sprain in one week?
John Hollinger: I have no idea. What's really crazy isn't just that he's playing, but that he's playing really, really well. This is probably the best Dallas has looked in several weeks.
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Michael (Batavia, NY): If the Lakers finish as the #2 seed, does Kobe Bryant get your vote as MVP? I see an argument for Chris Paul, but the Hornets haven't had all of the injuries the Lakers have.
John Hollinger: I think Kobe's argument for MVP is pretty weak to be honest. His PER isn't even better than Garnett's, who is supposed to be the non-numbers candidate, and it isn't close to Paul's or James's. If he wins, it's a guilt trip by the writers over the '06 vote.
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Mike (Aurora CO): What is wrong the the Denver Nuggets? Why do the continuously lose games to lesser opponents? Are they going to clean house if they do not make the playoffs?
John Hollinger: The "missing the playoffs" thing makes thing seem worse than they are - Denver will finish with more wins than last year, for instance. But yes, those were two petty horrible losses, and I have no idea why they didn't foul Ridnour when he started driving through the lane at the end of the first OT.
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Bryan, Pekin, IL: What is the best team in the last 20 years to fininsh 9th in the conference and not make the playoffs?
John Hollinger: Houston went 45-37 and missed the playoffs a few years ago, that was the former high-water mark. Denver/Golden State will end up at 48 or 49, so that will shatter the record.
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Steve (SLC): For weeks I've tried to make myself believe that the Nuggest truly do have good defense, but John, as much as I love your stats, after watching them the last few weeks, the eye doesn't lie, Denver's defense is pathetic.
John Hollinger: They haven't defended as well in the second half of the season as in the first half, but you're being deceived by pace too. Sacramento shot 46.6% and had 22 turnovers, but scored 118 because the game was so fast. Golden State hit 40.4% but scored 112 because they took 104 field-goal attempts in a single game. Yes, the D was horrid in Seattle, and not great vs. Phoenix (though the Suns are No.1 in Offensive Efficiency), but the pace deception magnifies all their problems.
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Thibault (France): Do you think the Hornets will keep up their good play come playoff time? People seem to forget that except for Paul all of their starters have playoff experience,which isn't too shabby.
John Hollinger: Playoff experience is overrated in my estimation. Teams like New Orleans that have come out of nowhere to get a high seed have done fine in the playoffs.
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Andy (Denver): CP or Bron Bron, which would get your MVP vote?
John Hollinger: Leaning strongly toward CP3 at the moment. He's almost drawn even in PER, he hasn't missed any games, his team is in first in the West, and he saved basketball in New Orleans. What more do you want?
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Steve (Moscow, Idaho): Houston moving up to the 5 seed would be suicide wouldn't it? Houston couldn't beat Utah last year with home court and Yao, is there any reason to think they can beat Utah in a series this year?
John Hollinger: Well, Houston would actually have home court if the current standings hold up. But no, I don't think they can beat Utah either.
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Justin (New York, NY): Is PER not the most useless statistic ever created? Would you ever take Carl Landry over franchise players because your PER rating system ranked him higher?
John Hollinger: Would you take a player who batted .427 in 100 at bats over Alex Rodriguez? Of course not. Same thing here. Landry's PER is through the roof because he's played insanely well -- but in a little over 500 minutes. A little something called "regression to the mean" says we'd expect him to not play quite as spectacularly in his next 500 minutes ... but all the stats can do is describe how somebody has performed, and Landry has performed unbelievably well.
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Kelly, Manhattan Beach, CA: Do you think a large percentage of the media who has MVP votes will decide their MVP on Friday with the outcome of the Hornets/Laker game?
John Hollinger: I kind of doubt it, since a large chunk of the people who do the voting will be attending other games at the time. The Sunday and Thursday games tend to be much bigger for that reason -- all the other media people can watch.
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MC Welk (SLC): Do you think a small % of the media will decide their MVP vote tonight after CP3 gets dogged by Williams?
John Hollinger: Ha-ha. But there's something else to keep an eye on here -- the potential for a second-round meeting between the Jazz and Hornets. Wouldn't that be awesome?
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Bryan (Boulder): To be MVP, Chris Paul should be recognized as the best player in the game. That's what more I want. If Kobe isn't the MVP - and by the way PER is merely an indicator not a precise reflection of value - than why do the vast majority of players, coaches, and GMs routinely cite him as the league's best player?
John Hollinger: No, it doesn't mean best player, it means best season. You'd still draft Kobe ahead of Paul until he proved he could repeat his level of play this year -- but there's no question he's played better than Kobe in 2007-08.
As far as the other part of your question, I wish I knew why everyone keeps saying Kobe is the best player -- he's certainly the most electrifying, and he's the best player 6-6 or under, but LeBron has outPERed him three straight years and Dirk has for four, and it's not like he's had massive intangibles to offset that.
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Eric, Houston: Do GM's, experts, etc really consider Kobe a better individual player than LeBron at this point? LeBron is better, plain and simple.
John Hollinger: Pretty much, yes. Kobe is more fun to watch, but LeBron is more effective.
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Wheezy(San Antonio): John, how do you hit .427 in 100 at bats? 42.7 hits? I'm confused.
John Hollinger: Wow, called out for a non-integer hit total. That's a first. Let's say .420 in 100 at bats. That make everyone feel better?
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Gus (Pensacola): Do you think that the media has created a mythology that the best player in the NBA must be the one who is the most like Michael Jordan, even if he is massively inferior to Jordan? That's the only reason I can think of for people insisting Kobe Bryant is the league's best player.
John Hollinger: No, I think it's more a case of the media's small-guy-itis. When they were teammates people would say "Shaq is the most dominant and Kobe is the best player" -- as though Shaq dunking on people's heads didn't really count and Kobe was doing the really difficult stuff. I think a similar vibe exists when people compare him to Duncan or KG or Dirk -- we naturally relate better to players closer to our size and players who have the ball in their hands the most often; in both cases, those are the guards.
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Pristo, NYC: So what your saying is that since Dirk has outperformed KOBE for four straight year in PER, you consider him a better player? Would anyone in the world take Dirk over Kobe? I didn't think so.
John Hollinger: Over the past four years, Dirk has been the best player on a conference champion, had a 67-win season, and won the MVP. Pretty good resume, no?
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Yoni (Tel Aviv, Israel): Hey John, Any chance Duncan finally wins Defensive Player of the year? I think its crazy he did not win it yet
John Hollinger: No chance. Garnett will win Defensive Player of the Year unless all the voters lose their minds.
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Andrew (Albuquerque): How likely is it that the Hornets keep the number 1 seed in the West?
John Hollinger: Pretty likely, especially if they beat Utah tonight. If they don't, losing to L.A. Friday would be a problem since they'd be tied in the loss column and lose the tie-break.
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lebron(no): so if kobe wins the mvp this year would you howl that the votes are not correct? would you say chris paul or lebron wuz cheated?
John Hollinger: If Kobe won this year it would not be as bad as the '06 vote or the Iverson vote or the Barkley vote. But Paul, James and Garnett are more deserving.
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Paul, Memphis: How come the announcers didn't even notice or call out that Memphis should've fouled Kansas before they had a chance to shoot the tying 3 at the end of regulation?
John Hollinger: You noticed that too? Apparently Memphis was trying to foul and just failed to get it ... at least that's what they said afterward.
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Chris (Kalamazoo, Michigan): Is this John Hollinger's Western Conference Chat? How about some Leastern info!
John Hollinger: It's such a foregone conclusion that the Hawks will win the East that nobody is that interested in discussing it.
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Josh Boston : Are you saying Dirk is better than Kobe now your just talking Crazy
John Hollinger: "is better" is always a loaded term ... let's put it this way -- look at the past four seasons and try to prove Kobe played better.
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Will, Houston, TX: Just to confirm...is "small-guy-itis" the reason that Steve Nash won the 04-05 MVP over Shaquille O'Neal?
John Hollinger: Actually, '04-05 was really weird. The best player (Garnett) didn't make the playoffs. the next two best, Shaq and Duncan, both missed a ton of time and only ended up playing like 2,500 minutes each. In the absence of any really strong candidates, everyone ended up being blown away by what the Suns did and gave, I would argue, an insanely large portion of the credit to the new guy. But it was a historically weak year as far as MVP candidates go.
John Hollinger: Folks, that's all the time I have, but I'll be back here next week at 3 ... and maybe we'll even know some playoff pairings by then. Thanks again for all the great questions.
When did Hollinger compare the two?
He said Dirk had a better resume for the past four years, true by the way, which of course riled up Corporate America who has been told non-stop that Dirk is a "soft, choker, cheater" for one year.
He said that LeBron and Dirk have outperformed Kobe in PER in the last three and 4 seasons respectively therefore even a make-up MVP is not justified.
At least Hollinger is consistent when discussing PER. Most fans will immediately run to PER when it helps their argument, and dismiss it as a flawed nerd stat when the results don't fit their needs.
By the way I really thought this was Kobe's year, and probably deservedly so at least when compared to how bad the Cavs were on the East.
But what CP3 has done the last month or so is remarkable. Unless Kobe just goes crazy on the Hornets on Friday, it would make it very hard to justify the MVP for Kobe. It would be completely a make-up one.
And what happens next year when the Lakers all come back healthy, and they make a run at the 1 seed? Do we not give Kobe the MVP in 09 because he got one non deserving in 08, and see if we can make up for the one CP3 doesn't get this year.
It's his greatest contributions to ABPRmetrics, and really one of the greatest contributions to the field. He better be consistent with it.
kobe isn't the mvp...so who gives a damn.
Man this guy makes me laugh. How can a guy who is 1st team all Defense and lead the lead in scoring last year be a worse player. He can shove his per up his ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by endrity
Josh Boston : Are you saying Dirk is better than Kobe now your just talking Crazy
John Hollinger: "is better" is always a loaded term ... let's put it this way -- look at the past four seasons and try to prove Kobe played better.
Oh and crappy journalists like him influence the sheep....sad but true.
he said james is more deserving..what a joke.
Well Iverson led the league in scoring 4 times, and won an MVP while doing it. Hollinger has been pretty consistent on his idea on him, going so far as saying that Shaq deserved the 01 MVP over Iverson and that it's one of the worst decisions ever.
Hollinger invented the PER exactly so that more than points scored are taking into consideration. That is the whole point of the APBRmetrics which more and more teams are using nowadays.
And Dirk's resume from 05-07 is absolutely brilliant. He did this while losing Nash, Finley, his old coach, a complete roster turnover, and yet the Mavs were still one of the elite teams in the league. I am not saying Dirk is a more skilled player than Kobe, but to deny what Dirk has done in these last 3-4 seasons is pure blindness. I know that it's cool to hate him, but please look up his achievements before denigrating him.
Plus, there is one fundamental point in what Hollinger is saying. Basketball is and has been a big man's game, especially in the NBA level. Besides Jordan, no guard led team ever became a dominant team. Therefore when people rush to claim that Kobe or LeBron are the best players in the game, they completely forget that this is an era dominated by Shaq and Duncan. A Duncan who is still alive and kicking, and that KG and Dirk, while not the spectular players that Kobe and LeBron are, have had excellent career's. Many coaches will tell you that the best player in the game is the best big man, and looking at history they are not wrong. Anyone who does not include Duncan in any best player list, is simply an uninformed fan of the NBA.
Yes a big man is definitely important and moreso than a SG.....can't deny history.
I'm not denying Dirk's stats, far from it, but when you achieve things in a season that haven't happened in decades and finish 3rd it's pure media bias.
Dirk's not just stats, he's much more. He kept his team at an elite level while going through vast changes in the team and organization... kinda like Kobe losing Shaq, at a lesser level for sure.
As for 06, which is what I think you are referring to, Hollinger has said this numerous times and I agree: The difference between Kobe, Wade, Dirk, and LeBron in that year was infinetely small. Kobe had a great scoring average, but LeBron was filling up the stat sheet, Dirk peaking at his efficiency and Wade took over the Heat down the stretch. Any of those guys could have won that year, yet somehow Nash won it. That was the bias part.
Yet, Dirk did not steal anything from Kobe in 07. He was also vastly superior in 05 when Kobe missed the playoffs all together. That means that Hollinger's claim that Dirk's recent history trumps Kobe's is very logical. The man bases his ideas on numbers, he is as bias free as a writer can be, has claimed that according to the SAME STATS Jordan is the best player ever, so there is no SG bias as well.
As I said, I really think that this is Kobe's year. I think he has a superior case than LeBron and KG. But with CP3's play recently, I have my doubts that Kobe has a better case. For everyone's sake, he better dominate on Friday.
The game vs NO shouldn't matter but to the "media" it will. Creating something out of nothing. I don't care if Kobe scores 15 points as long as they win.
Chris Paul is also deserving. Wouldn't be upset if he won it. MVP awards mean little to me anyways.
what does not make sense??? Hornets bench is thin.
Lakers bench is deep.
I can live with Paul winning the MVP. He's had an awesome year. And as the previous poster stated, its Paul's to lose. Whats more important to me as a fan is winning.
However if Kobe comes in 4th or 5th in voting, behind the likes of Lebron, Garnett, or God forbid, Amare(
Hahah, seriously. CP3 has done an amazing job. I can't argue that Kobe's been "better" but he has also contributed to the team playing injured and what not.I can live with Paul winning the MVP. He's had an awesome year. And as the previous poster stated, its Paul's to lose. Whats more important to me as a fan is winning.
However if Kobe comes in 4th or 5th in voting, behind the likes of Lebron, Garnett, or God forbid, Amare(
But it better not be anybody outside of them two.
kobe is definatly going to win the mvp because my story he is my second favorite player in the nba and he is the best
bumping MRodgers gay threads off the front page
What does 1 game mean really. The hornets beat the lakers last game when Pau went down in the first q and the game before the lakers killed them by 29. The game they won was where Peja hit 10 3's and went for a season high. It shouldn't come down to 1 game.
Still early in the game, but this is what I was getting at. I really think Kobe wants to play well against Paul and the Hornets.
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