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More than likely a loss of his legs.
All I know is it should not be this god damn hard to score points. Just ing run a pick and roll against Shaq instead of trying to back him down and score one on one against him. He'll give you open shots all day if you just face the basket. Just give the ball to Manu and let him run a pick and roll with someone, anyone. For crying out loud he got Fab two lay-ups. Fab! He can certainly make it work with Duncan.
No matter how soft he's playing and how off his shot is, Manu can still pass the ball and knows how certain basic basketball plays are supposed to be run. I'm sick and tired of seeing an offense where nobody knows what they're doing, everyone is standing around and a contested shot is being fired up with 1 second to go.
More than likely a loss of his legs.
The problem is htat teams are zoning the Spurs up a lot recently. You can say run pick and roll all you want but the spacing out there is horrible. Teams are daring the Spurs to hit jumprs in a lot of spots and its not going to happen.
Parker has done a good job of breaking down those zones to an extent, but more importantly the Spurs need to get a lot more easy buckets in transition than they have as of late.
As I said, I'm not really blaming Tony. He just does what Pop tells him to do, he runs the plays that are called. But he will look for his shot first, above all else, we know this. I think Pop has just done a piss poor job of handling the balance between the big three of late (a problem he didn't have half the year it seems since one or another was hurt or limited) and I think a lot of it stems for him taking Manu's coachability for granted. Don't just assume he's going to come out firing. Maybe his confidence is down or he's in a funk or whatever. Do something to physically get him going. Run a couple plays for him, with Tim and Tony in there, specifically designed to get him shots.How the is it always Parker's fault when Manu has a bad game? No matter what happens, you get Manu Fans coming onto the forum blaming Parker for Manu playing poorly. Has Manu ever had a bad game simply because he played bad? Or is that not possible?
Manu played nine and a half minutes without Parker in this game. He went 1-for-5 from the floor. What is the excuse for those nine and a half minutes? Ginobili is getting the same amount of touches he has always gotten when the big three has been healthy. Not as many touches as when Parker was hurt but that's to be expected. But Ginobili isn't doing much lately with or without Parker on the court. If Ginobili were setting the world on fire when he played without Parker, that'd be one thing. But that's simply not the case.
Ginobili's aggression level just isn't what it was earlier in the season. Now when he gets the ball, it seems like his first option is hitting Oberto after Oberto has slipped a pick. That's a pretty good play ... the first dozen times they do it. After that it becomes pretty obvious what is going to happen.
Ginobili has been at his best this season when he looks to attack the rim coming out of the gates. Then he gets his defenders sagging on him and he can hit threes. If they start sending help, Ginobili then can find open three-point shooters. Recently, Ginobili has come in thinking pass. He needs to come in and begin firing right away. He's not Kobe in that he can ease his way into a game knowing he'll get plenty of shots down the stretch. He has to cause havoc right away.
Parker has been far from flawless recently but to blame him for Ginobili's struggles not only doesn't make sense, it's just not statistically accurate.
Right now he's floating out there like he doesn't have to wake up til Vaughn is on the court. It's not good. Him and Duncan have to run a few pick and rolls and a few give and gos. Him and Tony have to run the occasional god forsaken fast break together. Right now the chemistry is terrible. It's like I feel Pop needs to get the big three in his office, plop them down in a chair and make them watch videos of Game 6 vs Phx and Game 1 vs Utah last year.
I really don't see us winning it this year..It ain't gonna happen. Hopefully they proove me wrong in the playoffs but their play has been very dissapointing.
Its just a sad fact that right now we have a very poor offense. We've gotten by at times this year simply by riding the fact that we have 3 very capable scorers but I honestly think no one saw how important (except maybe for Whottttttttt) Brent Barry was at getting the ball moving in our offense.
I cringe when the 2nd unit is in at the start of the 2nd and 3rd. I know what the Spurs are going to do, You know what the Spurs are going to do, my ing cat knows what the Spurs are going to do and the opposition DAMN sure knows that the Spurs are going to run pick and rolls with Manu.
So what do they do? They pressure him coming off the screen and shut down the passing lanes as much as possible forcing the ball into the hands of players like Jacque Vaughn in places where they then have to either hit a mid range jumper or try to create. Those aren't things Vaughn excels at. Thats probably way the Spurs did so well when Vaughn was clicking on all cylinders, but I think we can agree that was an aberration and not the norm.
I don't know what they can do other than run more. The faster they get into their sets and the more they get penetration/kicks just to get the defenses rotating and reacting the better off they'll be. But if they walk it up each time and force the ball into an isolation with under 10 to go on the clock then we'll be in serious trouble.
What makes me believe that we're already in serious trouble is that they should know this by now. There is no reason for them to not have identified the problem at this point in the season which means that their inability to solve it isn't because they're not willing but because they're not able.
Very good and honest take TiMVP.
Shaq has been looking very good lately, either he was faking it in Miami or the Suns own the fountain of Youth. Shaq was brought in specifically to counter Tim Duncan...the rest of the team has always been good but too small so they were killed on the boards.
Shaq can't defend the high pick and roll well so I think the Spurs will work on this.
Aside from Shaq, Diaw caused all kinds of problems for the Spurs, probably the best I've seen him play all year. Diaw's post up threw the Spurs defense off kilter. I am not sure who the Spurs have that can guard Diaw other than maybe Bowen.
That play with the two behind the backs in the paint was really crazy. There was another behind the back at the baseline. Both led to turnovers and during a critical part of the game. I think Ime was in on both of them so that dude's gotta quit the Harlem Globetrotter stuff.
I don't know why Finley didn't shoot more often...he was making practically all his shots. TP played great in the first half but lost his mojo in the second. I can't help but wonder if Manu's foot is injured when he tweaked it a week ago (but played in the 4th quarter after that). He doesn't seem to be the same since then...
We all know the Lakers game will be huge and I very much look forward to it..but I'll be watching the Seattle game on Friday, Spurs have to take care of business in their quest for a repeat...Playoff game or not.
PS: Yes, I think the Spurs should also pick up the pace a bit.
The answer is running. You want an easy shot against Shaq? You run. Manu ran plenty of pick and rolls but he wasn't attacking Shaq too often. Can't really blame him because Shaq intimidates basically every player who has ever lived.
No player on the team is running hard right now. Parker runs hard about 40% of the time. Duncan and Ginobili aren't running. The other wings aren't running.
When they play this walk it up slow down BS offense they are going to have trouble scoring. Especially against a Shaq team. But if they run, they'll get into the offense quicker. Cause mismatches. Give Duncan more than five seconds to create a shot. Allow Ginobili easy transition looks to get rolling. Allow the three-point shooters the ability to get open.
Seriously, for the Suns to score under 100 points while shooting 51%+, the pace has to be ungodly slow. For the new age Suns with Shaq in the middle, that actually hurts the Spurs more than the Suns. The Spurs can get back on transition defense and contest shots. Shaq hasn't contested a shot in transition since 2001.
Why AREN'T they running though. The Spurs have always run - especially against Phoenix - but it seems that now they walk it up every god damn time.
Are they really this old?
Good question. Ever since Pop went to his "winning doesn't matter because homecourt doesn't matter ... just don't get hurt" card this team has turned into the 2001 Spurs. Ginobili isn't his usual reckless self. Duncan is playing softer offensively than he has all year. Parker gives up running after he realizes that when he runs, it turns out to be 1-on-5.
I'm hoping it's just effort. Pop has all but said he doesn't care about winning right now. That message hasn't been received well. They were running and the offense was flowing fine just three games ago. But these last three games have been horrendous in terms of running.
The Spurs, since about 2002, have relied on running to get them 15-20 easy points per game. These last three games, they totaled about 20 easy points ... maybe less than that.
If it's not effort, then I guess it could be a combination of old age and the drain of trying to survive such a tough conference. I guess we'll see soon enough. If they don't pick up the pace, they'll be bounced in the first round most likely.
The problem isn't the amount of plays called for Ginobili, the problem for me (like i said 100 times) it's his confidence. He's passing the ball a lot more 'cause of this and that's why it seems like Pop isn't calling his number. Not to mention the broken plays where Manu usually takes charge and now he's just giving the ball to someone else.
4 times were shown on ARG National TV, and they sucks ... that early-white-flag fashion sucks ... suddenly we are too old to play.
At this point, I am worried, we can't play with intensity for 4 quarters ups and lows are extremes.
With this style of giving up, with that sad coaching, we can only win in play station.
TD isn't playing as his SuperStar status, at least he is trying.
Manu sucks from the bench.
TP is making his shots, but he's not involving the team, only run smiling for photos.
Oberto can't catch the ball, etc. etc. etc.
POP sucks!
I disagree that Duncan's poor game had anything to do with Shaq- I didn't see anything out there remotely resembling defense from anyone except maybe Raja Bell. Mostly, the Suns defense consisted of hanging on to the Spurs - literally - for which they NEVER ONCE got called.
But whatever, the refs are going to be the refs. The Spurs could not make shots. They had perfectly clean looks most of the time (see above - no defense in sight) and didn't get enough rebounds to make up for missing so much. Parker was penetrating, hitting shots, and passing out, but the problem was, no one else was making their shots.
I still like the Spurs' chances in a 7 game series. But I think the Suns would be a dangerous team to meet in the 1st round, because the whole team will be playing with a chip on their shoulder, with something to prove. But Manu and Tim have a history of elevating their game in the playoffs, so my hope is that they can do it again this year.
Also, I disagree that Oberto can't defend Shaq - from what I saw, he did a pretty good shot. He's not going to stop him from scoring - no one can, but he made him work, and Duncan did a decent job on him too in the second half.
I suppose this is a good time to say JAMES WHITE!
Joking...
Wow. I crashed in the 3rd quarter and wake up to find they got creamed. This ain't looking so good for the Silver and Black. They have absolutely no fourth scorer... against Phoenix! It looks like the GM failed to add youth and talent to the bench and it's truly hurting now, with days left to the season. By the way, I was looking at the other boxscores, specifically the Houston boxscore and... nevermind...
Play Matt Bonner!!
Great breakdown of the game (as usual).
No ball movement + Manu not showing up + bad gameplan on Shaq = horrific loss
I watched the game on my Tivo and I could tell early in the 3rd quarter that this was going to be a ty loss. Sure enough, I fast forwarded to the end and it was.
This team cannot win a championship without #20 playing at a HIGH level.
This is getting old. If it weren't for Parker, do you realize the Spurs would probably average abuot 2 fast break points per game? I've seen it happen way too many times where Parker pushes the ball up the court and he looks around and the rest of the Spurs are still on the other end of the court and Parker takes it himself.Ginobili isn't his usual reckless self. Duncan is playing softer offensively than he has all year. Parker gives up running after he realizes that when he runs, it turns out to be 1-on-5.
I love how Pop ended up playing Ginobili about 40 minutes per game for a stretch there against teams like the Knicks, Seattle, etc and now when Pop should be increasing Ginobili's minutes against the quality teams, he can't because Ginobili is too tired. I'd rather the Spurs have lost some of those games against sub .500 teams with Ginobil playing less minutes and have the Spurs play him bigger minutes against the teams they'll actually meet in the playoffs.
Reasoned, well-written posts like yours (timvp) have no place on this board, sir.
As mentioned earlier our offense has become predictable, stale, and ineffective.
We are a very soft team... well one that has 3 out of the last 5 championships but soft none the less..
It bothers me when TP dirbbles the ball around for 20 seconds and jacks up a contested 20 footer.. our margin for error has diminished and we have to start treating each possession with more urgency... During the Suns run our offense was TP going one on five.. The suns adjusted and wern't going to allow him to penetrate yet instead of finding the open guy he forces up nad shots... It's the timing of his selfishness is what irks me. I like him being aggressive and I don't mind an occasional out of control drive but when a team is beginning to pull away it's time to play smarter..
One other thing I noticed.. those plays drawn up for Bruce Bowen when the game was still in doubt were fantastic... he was wide open..
Timmy seems to go through these heightened periods of whining during games, then Pop tells everyone to shut the up and play and they respond by being more aggressive. Hope that's the case this time.
As for Manu, if I didn't know any better, it appears that he's trying not to get hurt before the playoffs. Knowing Manu, as we do, to have a devil-may-care at ude when it comes to throwing his body around, it's hard to imagine that he's developed the willpower to tone his game down. CIA Manu? I agree with most though that he's in a slump – he was definitely due for one. He goes through these a few times every season and, with the season he's had, I have to say that I'm okay with him going through a slump at this moment. IMO, it points to him having a great post-season.
The 2001 comments are exactly what last night had me thinking about. Last night, the Spurs capitulated. Their 4th quarter effort was poor. I could deal with poor execution on both ends if the effort was there, but it wasn't. The game got a little tough and the Spurs just packed up their tents and went home.
With Stoudemire and O'Neal in foul trouble, the Spurs built their lead to 66-61. At that point, the offense didn't just become stagnant -- it ceased to exist. On about 4-5 consecutive possessions, with the chance to build a double-digit lead, the Spurs had no ball movement (as Manny's original post noted) and hoisted up a series of ridiculous shots as a result. The undermanned Suns capitalized on that and ended the 3rd on something like an 9-2 or 11-2 run. Down 4 entering the 4th at home has rarely been a daunting hill to climb for these Spurs, but it's much, much harder to overcome that obstacle when you maintain a one-pass or two-pass offense and have a bunch of guys just standing around watching the stars try to get something done on their own.
The 4th quarter was horrific. It's not just that they played bad offense (11 points again) or bad defense; it's that they looked uninspired and, ultimately, somewhat intimidated. The most telling stat, to me, about last night's 4th was that the Suns weren't called for a single team foul during that quarter. I realize some will say that this evidences bad officiating, but frankly, the Spurs did nothing to cause the Suns to draw any fouls. They didn't challenge the defense and they didn't play with any aggression. I can't remember a championship-caliber team playing an important regular season home game and offering such a poor effort that it couldn't even draw a single measly foul on the opponent.
Perhaps the most disappointing thing I saw last night occurred during a timeout with about 3 minutes left. While the Spurs huddled, Tim Duncan meandered around on the floor, at least 10 feet away -- not sitting with his teammates. He walked around like he was dazed and couldn't explain what was going on; he kept looking into the stands with what seemed like a 500 mile stare. Like timvp, I think Tim Duncan played an absolutely horrible basketball game last night and was a big reason for the egg the Spurs laid. And I don't get this funk that he's in of late, either. It's not just the detachment from the team in that moment; the game was over, so it's not the physical detachment that concerns me, it's the mental softness that Duncan seemed to display in that moment. I can appreciate that he might be frustrated. But Tim seemed to have given up much earlier than that, in the 4th quarter -- on one play, Duncan got the ball on the block, tenatively dribbled right and put up a passive jump hook on Shaq in the lane that missed horribly, and then ran back up the court with his head hung in defeat. He looked mentally soft to me last night, and that's not a good sign. That moment during that timeout was troubling to me because Tim's body language suggested that he didn't know what had happened. That shocks me.
In some senses, last night's loss wasn't the end of the world. Even had the Spurs beaten the Suns last night, the game on Sunday in LA was likely going to be decisive in terms of the seeding of those two teams. That was true whether the teams were tied entering the game or whether either team was a game up. Assuming they enter tied, the Spurs can still move really close to a #2 seed if they beat Seattle and LA. Of course, at this point, rolling over and dying at Sacramento seems particularly likely and beating LA seems to be a bit of a long shot.
Honestly I thought Shaq played out of his ass tonight. I really don't see him doing that for a 7 game series. He could have one or two games where he plays like that but the rest of the time he's mediocre. It kind of reminds me of David Robinson when he was old that if he had 3-4 days off like Shaq did before this game he would transform back into an all-star player just for one game.
Duncan played bad in the second half tonight. I thought he should have attacked the basket more and try to draw fouls on Shaq. Even if he misses and doesn't get the foul it is still better to attack the basket because it will eventually open up other shots for the spurs.
Also I didn't think the Suns D was great it was moreso the spurs just sucking. Literally they were times when they were open for jumpshots and they just wouldn't make them. On top of that the spurs lacked instensity tonight I didn't see them playing like they really wanted to win this game. Suns did a good job of slowing the game down it felt like a 90's cavs game. Waste the whole entire shot clock until the final 2-3 seconds take a shot and hope it comes in.
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