If you could trade any Spurs player who would it be, and would you feel guilty?

[timvp]

give me a ing break! Hey, JAG, see here, THIS is where people realize that suddenly its become acceptable to piss all over Manu but a sin to say anything bad about Tony...

Now people who've been here long enough know that I really don't like the Manu nutjobs that preach hate for Tony for no logical reason, but when did it suddenly become acceptable for jackasses like kace over here to dump all over Manu? Where's Shoogar Bear's outrage at the Manu bashing by the Tony nuthuggers?

Seems to me, we went from one double standard to another. Now, I know how Spurstalk works, and normally I wouldn't say because the arguments tend to level themselves out. Its just this one's tilting way the to just one side.

I agree that Manu is getting the short end of the stick recently. I've done my part to try to make Spurs fans realize how valuable Manu is and will be in the future.

However, if any other Spur failed to the degree Manu failed in the WCF, they'd be destroyed far worse. Can you imagine what would happen if TD or TP would have scored in single digits in four out of five games in the WCF? There'd be riots to get the player off the team. I don't care if TD or TP was hopping around on one leg, they'd still get crucified.

You can also blame the national media for some of the backlash. The national media basically turned the Spurs into Manu Ginobili's team. I'm not sure how or why but suddenly Ginobili became more important that Duncan or Parker in the eyes of the national media. When it becomes your team, part of the responsibility in the media's eyes is sinking with the ship.

Most sane Spurs fans realize Manu was injured and tired and therefore he wasn't able to play up to his vast potential. Most sane Spurs fans know that a healthy Manu would have made a whole lot of difference. The vocal minority is clueless and should be ignored.

[timaios]

Loyalty.

Tim, Manu, Tony & Bruce won 3 les.
They are our Spurs. The winning Spurs.

If you remove one of them, you break something in this team.

Keep them together until Tim retires... even Bruce (when he will be like... 42).
Then retool. Start a new team, with a new core.

Tim, Manu, Tony & Bruce, I love them when they are winning, I love them when they are losing.
Of course, I am sad when they are losing but as in life you can appreciate good moments because you have also bad moments.

This year they were tired ( ing plane, schedule, injuries) and losed to a young Lakers team with a great Kobe Bryant (I hate him !!!).

Now, the Spurs have a challenge... again !
Now, it is an odd season... again !
Now, Pop & Co will do something in the offseason and will make that team the best of NBA... again !

Tim, Manu, Tony & Bruce... bring ‘em back and watch them bring the trophy back to San Antonio.

...

[Capt Bringdown]

Seems to me like the regular season is relevant again. Can we afford to be preoccupied with micro-managing Manu's minutes so that he's fresh for the playoffs? Worried about his chronic fatigue and arthritis?

You can talk about how the media has made Manu so important, I say BS. We've made him the central focus of our team by design. It seems like a lot of times this year we were waiting to see if Manu showed up - that's the extent of our offensive creativity.

We need more production and athleticism period and if we have to trade pieces to get it, I say fine. But I doubt we'd get anything substantial for Manu, he's damaged goods.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

another trade manu and tony thread

[tav1]

Trading Parker would be dumb unless you are getting a big time player back. He's still developing.

I can see the logic of trading Manu because of his age (and because people think he'll decline rapidly because of his style of play). However, I wouldn't do it. Manu has a will to win like very few players, plus he's very efficient and he's amazing to watch. So unless someone is offering a Kobe/LeBron for him (which would never happen) - I'd never even consider it.

I'm one of those people. If you can get a good package--very good--I think you have to pull the trigger for the reasons you mention. Classic buy low/sell high.

[Oh, Gee!!]

manu and no

[mrspurs]

i knew this thread was headed for disaster....why not ask, if have no choice but to give up one your own ciblings, which would it be? and for those with no ciblings...ask yourself...if by no choice, you had to give up one of your kidneys to a stranger, which stranger would it be, the one who loves alcohol, or the one who just wants to live a little longer.....release yourself from looking for the negative and you find the path to purity.....id trade anyone of the spurs players in which in return i get the same value only with this twist......someone younger..go spurs go

[BiZNicK]

If Manu leaves...

My Homerism drops about 50%

Favorite player on my favorite team

MANNUUUUUUUU

[tav1]

The vocal minority is clueless and should be ignored.

I'm not sure if I'm part of this "vocal minority" but my reasons for seeing Ginobli as tradable have very little to do with his WCF performance. Tony Parker is younger than Manu, Duncan is far more valuable. Manu is coming off an amazing season and his value is likely to decline in the coming seasons. To my mind, he is the only one of the big three the Spurs could possibly consider trading, and even that is a remote possibility. Yet, if an eye-popping deal came along, they should at least be in a place of considering it. Dismissing a great offer out of hand would be a mistake.

Elsewhere on this board, I suggested Mike Miller, Kyle Lowry, and the #5 pick for Ginobli. No doubt, many would pick this apart, but that's the kind of deal I would consider. Maybe Memphis would have to throw in both first round picks. Whatever. The point is, the Spurs should consider all their options when shaping their roster.

[bobbybob0]

I would never want a laker as a Spur. That is like a Sin that not even GOD almighty (David Stern) can forgive.

What did you think of Horry signing?

[1Parker1]

Slightly unrelated but; If the Spurs bring back Michael Finley next season, I may be forced to cheer for the Sixers next season when the Spurs come to town.

[eisfeld]

It's easy to say that the big three are untouchable. But if the spurs want to get high value in return one of them has to go. Duncan should be untradable and between Parker and Manu it's a tough decision. Both have their upsides but considering the long-term future of the team I'd rather trade Manu - despite my heart would be bleeding.

Besides the big three - Finley, Bonner, Vaughn, Stoudamire.

[1Parker1]

To answer the thread question: If the Spurs included Barry in some kind of big deal, I wouldn't mind, but I would feel very guilty about that. Esp after he came back and resigned with us and he came through big for the Spurs when he was given proper minutes.

[remingtonbo2001]

The only Spur all-time who I wouldn't trade no matter what was Robinson. Robinson bent over backwards to keep the Spurs in San Antonio numerous times. He could have easily let the Spurs die and no one would have blamed him.

I like Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan but if by trading him the Spurs can get four more guaranteed championships, I'll help him pack.

A true fan of the team, not the players.

Although, I couldn't trade Tim. He's just too good. You know it's wanna of those things you would regret later on.

Like the Red Soxs trading away the Babe.

The ATT Center would be cursed, forcing the Spurs to move back to the Alamodome.

[oligarchy]

I agree that Manu is getting the short end of the stick recently. I've done my part to try to make Spurs fans realize how valuable Manu is and will be in the future.

However, if any other Spur failed to the degree Manu failed in the WCF, they'd be destroyed far worse. Can you imagine what would happen if TD or TP would have scored in single digits in four out of five games in the WCF? There'd be riots to get the player off the team. I don't care if TD or TP was hopping around on one leg, they'd still get crucified.

You can also blame the national media for some of the backlash. The national media basically turned the Spurs into Manu Ginobili's team. I'm not sure how or why but suddenly Ginobili became more important that Duncan or Parker in the eyes of the national media. When it becomes your team, part of the responsibility in the media's eyes is sinking with the ship.

Most sane Spurs fans realize Manu was injured and tired and therefore he wasn't able to play up to his vast potential. Most sane Spurs fans know that a healthy Manu would have made a whole lot of difference. The vocal minority is clueless and should be ignored.

I don't believe that the MSM believes that it's his team. Though, he was the leading scorer this year, which says plenty about his importance. It's more that the Spurs need all three pieces to be working to win. Manu was injured and didn't provide that third piece. MSM laid blame on him instead of looking at role players who should have stepped up, Pop for not pulling him, or Pop not looking to Barry, et al more often. We do agree though, there are some crazy fans who don't understand what an injury is or does to one's game.

[1Parker1]

The only Spur all-time who I wouldn't trade no matter what was Robinson. Robinson bent over backwards to keep the Spurs in San Antonio numerous times. He could have easily let the Spurs die and no one would have blamed him.

I like Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan but if by trading him the Spurs can get four more guaranteed championships, I'll help him pack.

Duncan bent over backwards to keep the Spurs as contenders. He took a paycut so the Spurs could have cap room to sign FA and be contenders for the next couple of years. He could have easily demanded big $ and no one would have blamed him. Shouldn't he get the same benefit then as Robinson?

[SPURSGOAT]

if we could get LeBron for TP + Manu... No trading Duncan.

And no I would not feel guilty having LeBron...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I agree that Manu is getting the short end of the stick recently. I've done my part to try to make Spurs fans realize how valuable Manu is and will be in the future.

However, if any other Spur failed to the degree Manu failed in the WCF, they'd be destroyed far worse. Can you imagine what would happen if TD or TP would have scored in single digits in four out of five games in the WCF? There'd be riots to get the player off the team. I don't care if TD or TP was hopping around on one leg, they'd still get crucified.

You can also blame the national media for some of the backlash. The national media basically turned the Spurs into Manu Ginobili's team. I'm not sure how or why but suddenly Ginobili became more important that Duncan or Parker in the eyes of the national media. When it becomes your team, part of the responsibility in the media's eyes is sinking with the ship.

Most sane Spurs fans realize Manu was injured and tired and therefore he wasn't able to play up to his vast potential. Most sane Spurs fans know that a healthy Manu would have made a whole lot of difference. The vocal minority is clueless and should be ignored.

This is true. I do believe that if Tony had played as Manu played these playoffs that he would have been torn to shreds by people in here. I also believe that a lot of the old school posters in here who recognized the double standard being applied to Tony would be right there defending him. I'm just wondering where they are now that Manu is the one getting shafted?

It just seems to me that lately, due to the dislike of some Manu nutjobs, the normally level headed people in this forum, the ones that actually know their stuff, are afraid to speak up lest they be labeled part of the CoM.

In any case, my main beef here was with what kace said, and the fact no one called him out on this bull .

on the other end, manu has horrible PO and showed that he deserves his reputation of injuries prone and dumb plays specialist. it's who he is. along with his great play, his clutch play and his winning and team first mentality, we all have to see that injuries, fatigue and dumb plays (TO/bad shots/stupid fouls) are not just bad luck but are part of the streaky player that manu is.

[Oh, Gee!!]

pop for doc rivers

[spursfan98]

i would trade oberto and no i would not feel guilty at all!

[kace]

This is true. I do believe that if Tony had played as Manu played these playoffs that he would have been torn to shreds by people in here. I also believe that a lot of the old school posters in here who recognized the double standard being applied to Tony would be right there defending him. I'm just wondering where they are now that Manu is the one getting shafted?

It just seems to me that lately, due to the dislike of some Manu nutjobs, the normally level headed people in this forum, the ones that actually know their stuff, are afraid to speak up lest they be labeled part of the CoM.

In any case, my main beef here was with what kace said, and the fact no one called him out on this bull .

on the other end, manu has horrible PO and showed that he deserves his reputation of injuries prone and dumb plays specialist. it's who he is. along with his great play, his clutch play and his winning and team first mentality, we all have to see that injuries, fatigue and dumb plays (TO/bad shots/stupid fouls) are not just bad luck but are part of the streaky player that manu is.

say me which part you call bs in my post and i could maybe answer you.

oh, and if you find a single one post where i said we should trade manu, let me know:

Re: Trade Ginobili for the right piece to the puzzle

05-31-2008, 07:45 AM #116
kace

Manu is the right piece to the puzzle.

it's really annoying that he's so injury prone and seems so easily tired.
but he's the ing right piece of the puzzle.
who can say he's not after having seen the last 5 years of spurs basketball ??

yes, he's probably overrated here with a lot of manu's groupies, but he's freaking awesome. don't touch the big three !!

the rebuilding thing is stupid. we have 3 or 4 good years of tim and manu. we don't need to waste them with very young and raw players who will need 3 years to be at the required level.

some teams build during long years to only hope making a run in the PO.

We have Tim, Tony and manu. and it makes us automatically first class contenders. all we need is to surround them well. which, i agree, is not so easy.

[timvp]

Duncan bent over backwards to keep the Spurs as contenders. He took a paycut so the Spurs could have cap room to sign FA and be contenders for the next couple of years. He could have easily demanded big $ and no one would have blamed him. Shouldn't he get the same benefit then as Robinson?

Duncan took $11M less than he could have gotten. Great gesture but it doesn't compare to the many more million Robinson gave up. And really, if we were going to use taking less money as a reason why not to trade someone ... almost everybody on the team would fall into the category -- including Finley

Besides, if Duncan thought the Spurs wouldn't win any more championships, he'd be on the first train out of town. And really, I like him for that because Duncan is truly all about championships. He doesn't care about anything else. He's a cutthroat winner so I wouldn't feel guilty enough not to trade him if it meant guaranteed four championships.

[rasho8]

Good meat! Good curry!

trade Parker..........and hurry!

USAA SUCKS!! DUB DUB DUB DUB DUB!!!!!

[Da Spurs]

Parker without a doubt. We would get a star in return, possibly a 30 year vet and a young up and coming player. Tim and Manu are the same age and will probably retire together. Let's get a couple of really good players to go around them from some other team that is starting the rebuild.

[MaNu4Tres]

Parker for Melo... Then go after Calderon with the MLE lol