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More with your moral equivalency. Name one instance where the United States of America has done anything even approaching this level of evil.
Well, the thread is about using a defenseless Down's Syndrome child to commit murder.
I think you have to question who "those people" are Manny. Japan was both a good and bad example. The kamikazes were military people not children or disabled civilians. They did kill themselves with the attack they carried out which is a valid comparison. Had WW2 not ended so suddenly and the US been forced into a mainland invasion then maybe such tactics would have been employed.
I don't see the people employing these types of tactics as fighting for their country or their people. They are fighting for control and power over their people. They have no interests for anyone outside of a very small and exclusive nucleus of individuals.
More with your moral equivalency. Name one instance where the United States of America has done anything even approaching this level of evil.
Well, the thread is about using a defenseless Down's Syndrome child to commit murder.
I am aware of the age old tradition of Japanese people to commit suicide at the will of their master and for honor. I was referring (as I assumed you were) to the kamikaze pilots of WW2.
BTW, what exactly are these men so desperate for Manny?
This brings up a good point.
Just how many desperate people are there in Iraq? Because according to yesterday's voter turnout, the "desperate" people seem to be in the vast minority...and, I'm not so certain many of the "desperate" people are even Iraqi citizens.
And, if so, just when would you accept a people's "desperation" is no excuse for the types of atrocities that are being committed. I mean, is a desperate bid to achieve an objective justification to do what is being done by these barbarous animals?
You know, there are certain segments of this society, here in America, that feels desperate about various things...free speech, abortion, etc...surely you're not advocating we show understanding when they choose to start strapping bombs on their re ed children and sending them into Starbucks, right?
Excellent question. And, does it justify their acts?
And, one more thing, Manny.
How does it fit into your "Kumbahyah-let's-understand-the-poor-downtrodden-desperate-insurgents" scenario that most of these so-called "insurgent" desperadoes are former Ba'athist loyalists, Sunni Muslim extremists, or foreign terrorists who have, for the most part, spent the past half-century killing innocent people with impugnity?
look its a part of war as much as some germans in occupied germany in ww2 strung up wire across the road which decapitated us soldiers riding in open air jeeps. war is man. crazy happens. this doesnt justify it but man dont be surprised when you hear about like this.
furthermore, if this was not an act of war then what exactly is going on iraq?
i cant speak for manny, but my assumption is they are desperate to get us out of their landBTW, what exactly are these men so desperate for Manny?
It's like bashing my head up against a wall.
I come out and blatently say I'm not defending the actions, and you still can't grap that Yonivore.
What I am talking about is the use of the word evil. People, including the man you think does no wrong in the white house, use the word evil for one reason, and one reason alone.
It provides a seperation between the perpetrator of the act and yourself. It provides a gap to explain the behavior as not the result of cir stance and situation, but as an indicator that certain people are destined to do the act. In a nuts , it makes it seem as though regular humanity is seperate from the acts.
And well, that is simply not true.
You can argue it all you want, but I don't know of many psychologists or sociologists who wouldn't side with what I am saying.
Depends on which segment of "evil" terrorists you want to discuss.
The one's in Iraq? For us to leave.
The Palestinians? A state of their own
Whatever you may decide evil is, the dictionary defines it as:" Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction." You may agree or disagree with that but if you do, write your own dictionary.
so if i was an Iraqi civilian, and bombs were dropped in my neighborhood from an American strike killing my neighbors, some family, and destroying local infrastructure, would i be more inclined to say the U.S is evil? or al qaida, who is battling the U.S?Whatever you may decide evil is, the dictionary defines it as:" Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction
Yonivore says:
Do you really want me to do this? You can't be so nieve so as to think there isn't a good history of atrocious acts by the United States in it's history of war do you?Name one instance where the United States of America has done anything even approaching this level of evil.
I'll list examples in a seperate thread even though I'm sure it's just going to lead to me being told to either love america or leave it.
What this comes down to is a simple disagrement upon the meaning of the word "evil" and nothing more.
But it's not just semantics when the word evil is central to the way George Bush drums up support for his actions.
That would certainly be an option and the final decision would be yours.
If that is your opinion, you are certainly en led to it.
I don't know, 70 to 80 percent of Iraqis just expressed how happy they were we were there to ensure their voting rights this weekend. I heard nothing but praise for the President and the U.S. Military from Iraqis that were voting.
So, once again, we're talking about a minority, some of which aren't even Iraqi.
No, we use the word "evil" for one reason and one reason alone...the sick s are evil.
The sick thing about this story is, somewhere Dan is laughing about it with his buddies at demounderground.
As was already noted, the "ones in Iraq" just let the world know what they think of the US. And they didn't blow themselves up to do it. Whether you think the current war in Iraq is a mistake or not, the fact is that the majority of Iraqis are glad we are there.
The Palestinians had their shot at a state of their own. Instead, Yassir Arafat decided he wanted the Jews pushed into the Mediterranean more than he wanted "his people" (*snort*) to have a homeland.
The Israelis have been under a state of siege from the Arab world since the country was formed. Unfortunately, there are many in this country who don't seem to think they need to exist...or blithely ignore the fact that the stated purpose of the PLO (and their splinter cousins) is the complete destruction of Israel.
And on the subject of a Palestinian "homeland"...why doesn't someone explain why Jordan and Syria aren't on the hook for any of this? A large percentage of the "Palestinians" (a majority maybe??) are displaced Syrians and Jordanians. Their own countries threw them out. But no one wants to talk about that.
theres nothing i like better than reading the rantings of an ignorant little kid about how bad this country has been historically. stfu already.
Holy crap! Manny's gone off the deep end.
Ah, so then both of these groups should be desperate to cooperate instead of killing themselves and their own people.
With all due respect, I think it's about more than just getting us to leave, it's about power, if Iraq succeeds nothing will ever be the same for these men. Their days of doing what they want and terrorizing their own people are over and what do they have left?? Nothing. They might actually have to contribute something to society.
I think you calling them desperate and just writing off these actions is a bit of a cop out in itself. I understand that you aren't condoning their actions but you don't seem too willing to condemn their actions either. Yes, evil can be relative, but there are some things in the world that are described as evil no matter who you talk to, no matter what culture you are part of, no matter what part of the planet you reside in.
Last edited by Samurai Jane; 02-01-2005 at 10:35 AM. Reason: I seem to have misplaced my grammar book today...
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