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, u exaggerate
nail, head, everything!
Keep in mind that Pierce (whom i am a big fan of) did not accomplish ANY of that until he had Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen on his team. Most people considered him a poor leader, poor defender, a choker, and he never reached the finals.
KG + Ray Allen >>>>>>>>>>>> Josh Howard/Jason Terry.
It's amazing how far a little help can go in making you turn from one kind of player to a COMPLETE opposite. Let's see what Dirk can do if he had teammates like those two. He almost accomplished it with Howard and Terry, and would have if it werent for ing David Stern.
, u exaggerate
Pierce isn't that fast or athletic.
What planet are you living on????WTF TD over KG???
KG> duncan!!!
I think Dirk could become a good defender too if he had KG or Tim Duncan anchoring the paint behind him, Get him Michael Redd and Sam Cassell too and Dirk will win the championship. People forget that the Celtics also had Rondo, Sam Cassell coming off the bench and PJ Brown who's a good solid veteran. Who does Dirk have? Stackhouse? Josh Howard? Jason Terry? or perhaps Eric Dampier is just as good as a low post scorer and defender like KG!
Dirk >>>>>>>>> Pierce case closed ya in chode lickers
I'd choose A.I. over Wade.
Dirk doesn't have the tools to be a good defender. He is what he is, a one of a kind 7 footer with a great offensive game, who's worked his butt off to become an average defender instead of a liability. Let's not forget Howard/Terry were better than Cassell/Redd in 06. Stackhouse was one of the leagues best 6th men that year. I'll agree about Dampier, the dude sucks balls and the Mavs have always been one good low post scorer away from multiple championships.
Never said they weren't. Just said that you using those facts against Dirk is a very skewed argument and unfair to Dirk due to the situations. Its almost like saying since Mark Madsen was a good energy player off the bench for the Lakers and won 3 rings with them, which outweighs any accomplishment that Dirk, Barkley, or Malone had, that it is arguable that he is a superior player. Doesn't always work that way.
Dirk > Pierce
Dirk > Garnett
The only PF in NBA history that IMO is hands down better than Dirk is Duncan. Barkley and Malone are arguable, but both had better teams than Dirk, and still didnt accomplish any more, and didn't have a ring stolen from them by Stern. and they both played in era's where there was more scoring opportunities, so obviously their scoring/rebounding averages are going to be higher. None of them are good defenders though. IMO if you stuck Dirk in the 80s, he could very possibly average around 27 ppg and 12-14 rpg for his career due to the higher paces and increased opportunities. they would definitely be higher, there is no question.
and i think when its said and done, Duncan and Dirk will go down as #1 and #2 PFs of all time. they already are in my book.
No way is Dirk better than Barkley or Malone. I agree Dirk>KG though, these playoffs made me take a new look at KG and realize he isn't what most people thought he was.
That settles it then.
Replace Damp with KG and there it is.
Dirk >>>>>> Pierce.
I didn't even think it was much of a question.
yes.
I may even take T-Mac over Wade.
Wade would perish in the no blood no foul era.
In my opinion, no. I've already given reasons why.
Finals MVP
More clutch
great team leader
better defender
If Dirk>Pierce in your opinion, then fine, although they're really not even comparable because they play different positions.
Then why are you comparing them?
They don't play the same positions, and they arent in even relatively close or comparable situations. However, Dirk has accomplished more with less than any player in the NBA today. Pierce had to have two superstars to help him accomplish those things. How many superstars has Dirk had to help him? None.
So either see the whole picture, or as you say, don't compare them at all.
I would consider Kidd and Nash superstars, although Kidd is past his prime and Nash seemed to peak while in Phoenix. The thing is though that the Mavs have had some talented rosters but have never addressed low post scoring and the shooting guard position. This makes Dirk's accomplishments even more incredible in that he's never played alongside a shooting guard, never played alongside a low post scorer, and played under Avery. Dirk > Pierce, and most people wouldn't even argue that until this year in which Pierce was a part of an stacked ensamble team.
During their stints with the Mavs, they absolutely are/were not considered superstars. Nash didn't become a superstar until he got the free-flowing athletic offense in Phoenix. Kidd is still a good player, but again, like Nash, he needs to be in certain systems to really be a superstar type player.
And while I agree that the Mavs have had some talent around Dirk, you gotta look at how the talent was built around him. In his early years, before he was the main star, he had an offense that was destined to fail, back when he had Nash and Finley. He had a team that was destined to fail when they added Walker (Jamison would have been a GREAT piece, and I think if the Mavs had pulled the trigger on the Walker for Rasheed deal, they very possibly could have won the le either that year, or the next, but for some reason Cuban didn't have the balls to, and I think it was around the time that Walker got on a hot streak and had like back-to-back triple doubles).
They finally got a team with a good mix and better system, the only problem being that no one other than Dirk could be consistent scoring threats. Howard was too young and undeveloped and Terry/Stack were too inconsistent, yet Dirk still got them to the finals, only to have it stolen by Stern (i used to hate blaming the series on the officials, although i admitted it was very fishy officiating, but with the recent stuff coming out, there is no doubt in my mind, as well as 98% of the rest of NBA fans that Stern fixed that )
Then Avery suddenly got obsessed with old, brokedown "experienced" players, and completely ruined the offensive system.
Hopefully Carlisle can fix this mess that Avery left.
I couldn't agree more.
People often think when people argue that todays players are better than 80s players, that its a slight against those guys. But if anything, its a compliment, because those guys are the reasons players are getting better and better, because they were role models for people to learn from. Its like a father/son sort of thing. Son is supposed to learn from the father, and in many cases succeeds even further than the father. What kind of selfish father would consider that a slight against him? It really should make him proud as . Its the same thing. For people to think its a slight, IMO is selfish reasoning.
Ridiculous. Pure haterism.
as I recall, in the final 7 minutes or so, when Lebron turned on the defense, he forced Pierce into at least 2, but i believe it was 3 turnovers and a TERRIBLE forced shot, while he rallied his team on offense from being down double digits and nearly won the game, if it wasnt for bull officiating.
It's not Dirk's fault his best qualities aren't punching his chest and riding a good team to a le while choking for 90% of the Finals.
Put Dirk in KG's place and the Celtics sweep the Lakers.
Or put Dirk in Gasol's place, and the Lakers beat the Celtics.
I don't think Cassell and Redd played on the same team in 2006. In fact they haven't played together since 02-03.
Stack was a nice 6th man at the time. Again, Stern decided to interfere with the Finals and give him a bull suspension in the finals. Could have made a major difference in the outcome, despite the awful officiating.
i agree, dirk is way underrated due to his loses in the past playoffs.
the guy is an incredible player. funny how most spurs fans forget what he did to us in 2006.
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