William Rodriguez Vindicated by Newly Released 9/11 Commission Notes

[911]

[Blake]

I do not buy the controlled demolition argument for one bit. There were over 10000 people that worked in the buildings that fell and not a single person has come forward to indicate su ious activity of work crews etc that would have placed 1000s of charges to pull something like that off. You would think that Chump or one of the other debunk suckers would have thought of that. Its pretty intuitive.

good lord you are an idiot.

so you dont buy controlled demolition, but you dont buy fire bringing the buildings down either?

aliens?

[RandomGuy]

Good post.

I know that NIST doesn't say the fires directly caused the weakening of the steel. Instead they say the fires heated gas to 1000 degrees which was the heat transfer device. The problem with hot air is that is diffuses easily and rapidly and moves to displace cold air masses.

And do not get me wrong. I many pages ago stated that I do not believe that NIST was operating in bad faith. Darrin pointed out to me a long time ago that NIST worked jointly with the American Society of Structural Engineers and the AS or Civil Engineers. I know they have the expertise.

What I stated before is that I firmly believe they ran out of time and were forced to present a final report. They were under an intense amount of political pressure because the 9/11 commission went off like a fart in church a year before and after all it had been 6 years since they were commissioned with the project.

One thing that I wish they would have looked at a bit deeper was the poor state of maintence the building was in. One man described it as a maintenece nightmare. Yearly autumnal windstorms would dislodge fireproofing and weaken supports and wouldn't be repaired. The building was under a different code than the NY Municipal building code and thus was not subject to the same oversight etc.

NIST claims that the plane impacts dislodged fireproofing but I have read several reports that much much more had been dislodged from deterioration.

After all as the bridge collapse in Wisconsin a year or more ago showed the state of repair of the general infrastructure in this country is .

I do not buy the controlled demolition argument for one bit. There were over 10000 people that worked in the buildings that fell and not a single person has come forward to indicate su ious activity of work crews etc that would have placed 1000s of charges to pull something like that off. You would think that Chump or one of the other debunk suckers would have thought of that. Its pretty intuitive.

Here is another question that conspiracy theorists have never bothered answering:

If you are a demolitions expert and you are hired by someone to set off explosions by evil people who are willing to kill tens of thousands of people and who are therefore quite willing to kill anybody to further their agenda, are you stupid enough to believe the evil conspiracy will not kill you to keep you from talking or blackmailing them?

A rather famous conspirator, G. Gordon Liddy, once quipped: "The only way for two people to keep a secret is for one of them to be dead."

Basically demolition theory implies that there is a group of people who are smart enough to flawlesslywire two 110 story buildings for demolition, but are too stupid to realize that they will not be allowed to live long enough to spend the money they were paid for it.

I also asked the question about anybody actually seeing one of the thousands of devices that would have been needed:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=994
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...xperts&page=39

Further:

Of course the same firefighters who are expert enough in bombs to rely on to "prove" explosive devices when they hear explosions, can't be relied on to recognize bomb components in the rubble during the weeks that they were in charge of the "pile".

If you read through the "Real 9-11 Research" thread it was brought up.

Being an accountant, I even stepped through the calculations.

200 stories (wtc 1, 2, minus a few floors at the top of each)

with 47 columns to be wired, at 10 minutes a piece to affix and test wiring, divided by a 5 person crew, divided by a 40 hour work week, divided by 4.3 weeks per month, etc.

I came up with about 3-5 months if memory serves. All done without anybody noticing.

It gets more and more ridiculous as one really looks into what would be required to actually demolish the buildings.

For this reason, the truthers have mostly retreated from their ed theory and concentrated on wtc7. This will, in the end, prove just as fruitless.

[RandomGuy]

What I stated before is that I firmly believe they ran out of time and were forced to present a final report. They were under an intense amount of political pressure because the 9/11 commission went off like a fart in church a year before and after all it had been 6 years since they were commissioned with the project.

One thing that I wish they would have looked at a bit deeper was the poor state of maintence the building was in. One man described it as a maintenece nightmare. Yearly autumnal windstorms would dislodge fireproofing and weaken supports and wouldn't be repaired. The building was under a different code than the NY Municipal building code and thus was not subject to the same oversight etc.

NIST claims that the plane impacts dislodged fireproofing but I have read several reports that much much more had been dislodged from deterioration.

Indeed.

I have no doubt that the age and state of maintenance probably played a part in the collapse.

The rest of this post brought up some pretty good points as well.

In the end, anybody with any sense would agree that the whole "controlled demolition" schtick is not worth a fart in a hurricaine.

[Nbadan]

If you are a demolitions expert and you are hired by someone to set off explosions by evil people who are willing to kill tens of thousands of people and who are therefore quite willing to kill anybody to further their agenda, are you stupid enough to believe the evil conspiracy will not kill you to keep you from talking or blackmailing them?

Pfffff.......that's what your hanging your head on now? WeaK! There have been criminal organizations around for decades.....guess what? They don't all kill each other off after all!

[Nbadan]

After all as the bridge collapse in Wisconsin a year or more ago showed the state of repair of the general infrastructure in this country is .

.......tell me you didn't go there!

[Nbadan]

200 stories (wtc 1, 2, minus a few floors at the top of each)

...your assuming that they had to wire the whole building which isn't true.........all they really had to wire was the bottom floors of the central core columns and a few columns on the upper middle floors...

[Nbadan]

the truthers have mostly retreated from their ed theory and concentrated on wtc7

Or maybe it's because it's the weakest part of the, Bush sponsored, 911 Commission's fictional story.......

[Nbadan]

...that's not to say that I fully believe one way or another, but that I support another investigation...

[ChumpDumper]

...your assuming that they had to wire the whole building which isn't true.........all they really had to wire was the bottom floors of the central core columns and a few columns on the upper middle floors...

tell us how one would go about wiring the building in those locations.

Be specific.

Or maybe it's because it's the weakest part of the, Bush sponsored, 911 Commission's fictional story.......

Which part is fiction?

Be specific.

...that's not to say that I fully believe one way or another, but that I support another investigation...

Investigate what?

Be specific.

[Nbadan]

tell us how one would go about wiring the building in those locations....

....with wires and explosives?

[Nbadan]

Which part is fiction?

...well, the 'independent' part to start........I haven't seen a less independent commission since Warren.............and well, we all know how that worked out...

[ChumpDumper]

....with wires and explosives?

Not specific.

...well, the 'independent' part to start........I haven't seen a less independent commission since Warren.............and well, we all know how that worked out...

Not specific.

[RandomGuy]

Pfffff.......that's what your hanging your head on now? WeaK! There have been criminal organizations around for decades.....guess what? They don't all kill each other off after all!

Don't like me pointing out the holes in your non-theory, I take it.

"Yeah, here is some money to wire the buildings in which we plan to kill 10,000 people, but we PROMISE to leave you alive long enough to spend the money."



But, hey, since you want to assert that there are a group of guys who really are that smart/naive/trusting of evil conspiracies.

How many of them were there?

I'm with Chump on this one. Your theory, you tell me how it works.

[RandomGuy]

I can see the movie version of the 9-11 trial conducted by truthers now

(NbaDan to Jury)

"I don't really have any coherent theory to give you to support my claims, and despite the defendants countering every single one of my flimsy and made up points of evidence, you must find them guilty because you just know they did it.

The prosecution rests."

[RandomGuy]

....with wires and explosives?

"Ladies and gentleman of the jury...

with wire and explosives."

"'nuff said. Remember to believe me, just 'cause you know they did it."

"um, what, your honor? Do I really need to explain a coherent alternative theory? That would take, like, effort or something."

[RandomGuy]

...your assuming that they had to wire the whole building which isn't true.........all they really had to wire was the bottom floors of the central core columns and a few columns on the upper middle floors...

Except for the part that shows that no part of the bottom floors started moving before the debris wave hit it.

That was one of the primary points that the real demolitions experts brought up.

Somehow the explosives were so flawlessly set that they went off ONLY after the debris wave hit them?

How did they get the initial collapse started? If they did indeed wire the floors that were impacted by the jets, can you tell me how the explosives didn't cook off immediately when the fires from the fuel started the internal fires?

Even fires that "aren't really that hot and oxygen starved" give off enough heat to cook off explosives.

Can you explain this for me? What kind of explosive was used that was fire-proof?

[unibrow]

Nbadan is on fire!

[RandomGuy]

Nbadan is on fire!

(hands NBAdan a fire extinguisher for his pants)

[unibrow]