2023 NBA Free Agency Thread - June 30 @ 5 pm CDT

[BacktoBasics]

Nah... arguably better, than Vassell... he's worth the money.. 2nd best player on our team day 1..

Vassell was the better player and Reaves had the benefit of playing on a team that made a deep playoff run. This comparison is nothing more than a typical ST circlejerking fad.

Reaves didn’t have a breakout season. The pitch is that he will have one. Vassell has shown legitimate promise and progress on a team that worked to the benefit of a tank.

It’s a shortsighted comp.

[scott]

The crux of the argument centers around whether Reaves is really worth $11MM or if he is actually a $25MM player. With Doug making $14MM and Devonte making $12MM and Keldon making $20MM... I tend to think that Reaves probably actually is worth somewhere between 4/80 and 4/100, especially with the Cap at $136MM and rising 10%/year ($150MM next season, $165MM in 2025, $181MM in 2026).

I also believe that waiting on a 2025 FA Class that probably won't materialize (because it never does) is a fool's errand.

Given the our cap situation coupled with the rising cap AND all the FRPs we have coming up, I'd give Reaves 4/100 (and not just to screw over the Lakers). IMO, this isn't a second star contract, this is a Keldon/Devin/Jeremy level contributor contract. We can still use our picks to either draft or trade for our second star. I don't think Reeves at 4/100 is the "big costly mistake" that we are warned about (I think FVV at 3/$130 is).

Just my opinion, but I am no means a professional basketball scout. I'm just some dude on the internet who should probably be working. Good thing I'm the boss.

[BacktoBasics]

The notion that Reeves is just a role player is pretty idiotic. Is he an All-Star? No, but he has no weakness in his game, is a positive on both ends, can play make, doesn’t shy away from big moments, is fast, has an elite crossover, size and has only played 2 NBA seasons. There‘s still some upside here. The PG options out there are so bad that he‘s easily our best bet and 25 million is not that expensive as people here want to make it out to be.

Based on what? 16 games? 20 games?

Definitely not the whole season.

So if you want say he has no weaknesses in his game and he’s what? An elite role player? 3rd option? Better be at 100 million.

Then own it.

What’s his stat lines gonna be next season? How many mpg?

Project his greatness that you’re sold on for us.

[Mr. Body]

Austin Reaves is this year's John Collins.

[timvp]

The other shoe that's left to drop that might have a Spurs connection is Brook Lopez. If you were to imagine a center to put next to a rookie Wemby, you'd want a big ol' dude who is great at defense, absorbs contact, won't be messed with and shoots threes on the other end to space the floor for Wemby's isolations. Sounds like Lopez.

If the Spurs offer him two-year, $55 million, could he actually say no?

[Obstructed_View]

The notion that Reeves is just a role player is pretty idiotic. Is he an All-Star? No, but he has no weakness in his game, is a positive on both ends, can play make, doesn’t shy away from big moments, is fast, has an elite crossover, size and has only played 2 NBA seasons. There‘s still some upside here. The PG options out there are so bad that he‘s easily our best bet and 25 million is not that expensive as people here want to make it out to be.

And, unlike other pricey free agents, he won't be over the hill and still drawing a huge paycheck. I can't think of anything to drive Wemby out of SA faster than an old, useless player making 50 million a year.

[mo7888]

Vassell was the better player and Reaves had the benefit of playing on a team that made a deep playoff run. This comparison is nothing more than a typical ST circlejerking fad.

Reaves didn’t have a breakout season. The pitch is that he will have one. Vassell has shown legitimate promise and progress on a team that worked to the benefit of a tank.

It’s a shortsighted comp.

Reaves advanced stats have already been posted on here and they are superior to Vassell... the only argument in Vassell's favor is that we were trying to tank and it hurt his numbers....its hard to quantify that though..

[Chinook]

Osman has always had hugely negative advanced stats but it looks like the numbers swung positive last year. League average TS% and eFG% the last couple seasons. Decent size. Decent enough three-point volume. 28 years old.

Eh, yeah, $6.7 million would be fine. If the Spurs see him as possible long-term fit, giving up a second rounder for him wouldn't be the end of the world.

I do want to point out that Cedi's salary fits into the room exception, which I'm pretty sure can be used as a TE this year. So even if the Spurs plan on doing this deal (and as mentioned, I pretty much hope they don't), they should be able to use all of their cap space without worrying about Osman gunking it up.

[Obstructed_View]

The other shoe that's left to drop that might have a Spurs connection is Brook Lopez. If you were to imagine a center to put next to a rookie Wemby, you'd want a big ol' dude who is great at defense, absorbs contact, won't be messed with and shoots threes on the other end to space the floor for Wemby's isolations. Sounds like Lopez.

If the Spurs offer him two-year, $55 million, could he actually say no?

I don't know if that is overpaying, but I would overpay for two years of him.

[objective]

Reaves scored 21 a game against Denver in the playoffs, 5 assists

-9 in a series lost -24

Dude is good

[timvp]

I do want to point out that Cedi's salary fits into the room exception, which I'm pretty sure can be used as a TE this year. So even if the Spurs plan on doing this deal (and as mentioned, I pretty much hope they don't), they should be able to use all of their cap space without worrying about Osman gunking it up.

That's interesting, thanks. Especially about the change to the room exception.

You think the Spurs would have to give up a second rounder to get Osman or the Cavs would have to give the Spurs a second rounder to take Osman? I'm thinking neither team would have to give up anything but it's close.

[BacktoBasics]

The crux of the argument centers around whether Reaves is really worth $11MM or if he is actually a $25MM player. With Doug making $14MM and Devonte making $12MM and Keldon making $20MM... I tend to think that Reaves probably actually is worth somewhere between 4/80 and 4/100, especially with the Cap at $136MM and rising 10%/year ($150MM next season, $165MM in 2025, $181MM in 2026).

I also believe that waiting on a 2025 FA Class that probably won't materialize (because it never does) is a fool's errand.

Given the our cap situation coupled with the rising cap AND all the FRPs we have coming up, I'd give Reaves 4/100 (and not just to screw over the Lakers). IMO, this isn't a second star contract, this is a Keldon/Devin/Jeremy level contributor contract. We can still use our picks to either draft or trade for our second star. I don't think Reeves at 4/100 is the "big costly mistake" that we are warned about (I think FVV at 3/$130 is).

Just my opinion, but I am no means a professional basketball scout. I'm just some dude on the internet who should probably be working. Good thing I'm the boss.

Doug is overpaid and Devonte is on a contract that explicitly shows why giving a guy a bag based on a questionable sample size or hype is a bad idea.

Some of you Reaves supporters need to own up and tell us your expectations of Reaves next season so that when it doesn’t pan out you’ll have to own it.

[Chinook]

Reaves advanced stats have already been posted on here and they are superior to Vassell... the only argument in Vassell's favor is that we were trying to tank and it hurt his numbers....its hard to quantify that though..

The actual argument for Vassell in my mind is seeing his potential as an iso scorer. Reaves is as capable on that end as he needs to be for his role. But Devin has a chance to be that guy who gets the ball at the end of quarters to make something happen. While we hope Wemba is that guy going forward, he probably won't start out there. Vassell is definitely the best choice of the guys from last year.

I do think Reaves has shown he's a better player than anyone on the Spurs have shown, and I don't think Vassell would've been a better performer than Reaves on LAL. Reaves was really, really good. I don't see why the idea that he performs at an elite level around stars is supposed to be a bad thing for a guy to put around Wemba.

[scott]

Vassell was the better player and Reaves had the benefit of playing on a team that made a deep playoff run. This comparison is nothing more than a typical ST circlejerking fad.

Reaves didn’t have a breakout season. The pitch is that he will have one. Vassell has shown legitimate promise and progress on a team that worked to the benefit of a tank.

It’s a shortsighted comp.

I won't pretend like I've watched a ton of Austin Reaves games... but his second season outperformed Devin's second season on a more compe ive team (in 64 regular season games, not 16 or 20). Devin's 3rd year was a big leap, but it was also less than half a season of playing time on a garbage team. I'm not a huge advanced stats nerd, and honestly don't even know which ones to look at, but seems like Reaves' Year 2 advanced stats are better than Devin's 3rd Year.

I'm not really qualified so say which player is better, but I see a lot of sharp people on this board making arguments both ways. 4/100 seems to be about what we feel Devin's extension should be... and it seems like half the folks think Reaves is better than Devin and half the folks feel the opposite... which makes me think that 4/100 is about right for Reaves?

[TekXX]

Guys, the Lakers will match us, I don't think we have to worry about him being here.

[BacktoBasics]

Reaves advanced stats have already been posted on here and they are superior to Vassell... the only argument in Vassell's favor is that we were trying to tank and it hurt his numbers....its hard to quantify that though..

That’s the exact reason it’s a disingenuous comparison.

It’s like arguing the success of you getting blowjobs from a women who actually wants you and one you pay. You’re the guy who goes back to his boys and tells them that the hooker you paid was all over you and kept telling you what a stud you are.

Imagine the mystery around a team winning reflecting positively in advanced stats. Wow. Say it isn’t so.

[BacktoBasics]

I won't pretend like I've watched a ton of Austin Reaves games... but his second season outperformed Devin's second season on a more compe ive team (in 64 regular season games, not 16 or 20). Devin's 3rd year was a big leap, but it was also less than half a season of playing time on a garbage team. I'm not a huge advanced stats nerd, and honestly don't even know which ones to look at, but seems like Reaves' Year 2 advanced stats are better than Devin's 3rd Year.

I'm not really qualified so say which player is better, but I see a lot of sharp people on this board making arguments both ways. 4/100 seems to be about what we feel Devin's extension should be... and it seems like half the folks think Reaves is better than Devin and half the folks feel the opposite... which makes me think that 4/100 is about right for Reaves?

Sound post. This is exactly why I’ve asked them to own it and post their predictions for how he’ll perform next season. Yet no one wants to make that prediction.

[Chinook]

That's interesting, thanks. Especially about the change to the room exception.

You think the Spurs would have to give up a second rounder to get Osman or the Cavs would have to give the Spurs a second rounder to take Osman? I'm thinking neither team would have to give up anything but it's close.

The Spurs might have to if they're the ones controlling the timing of the trade (to protect their cap space). They have to give Miami something anyway to make the trade legal. It may as well be one of their picks. Maybe the Spurs get cash to cover Cedi's salary (and give the Holts free money). I do think it's hard to see why the Spurs would do this if they don't want Osman on their roster. A second isn't enough to take up a roster spot. Even if they want to cut him immediately just to get closer to the floor, you think they would've been the team in the Harris deal. Harris has rehab value. Osman likely doesn't.

[mo7888]

The actual argument for Vassell in my mind is seeing his potential as an iso scorer. Reaves is as capable on that end as he needs to be for his role. But Devin has a chance to be that guy who gets the ball at the end of quarters to make something happen. While we hope Wemba is that guy going forward, he probably won't start out there. Vassell is definitely the best choice of the guys from last year.

I do think Reaves has shown he's a better player than anyone on the Spurs have shown, and I don't think Vassell would've been a better performer than Reaves on LAL. Reaves was really, really good. I don't see why the idea that he performs at an elite level around stars is supposed to be a bad thing for a guy to put around Wemba.

I also think it makes the starting lineup more interesting. I think the 'KJ or Sochan' starting debate is settled and Sochan starts. You'd have 4 guys in that unit who are true threats from deep. Tre and Keldon coming off the bench in roles that are suited to their strengths are a big plus in my mind.

[Mr. Body]

Reaves scored 21 a game against Denver in the playoffs, 5 assists

-9 in a series lost -24

Dude is good

Jerome James

[cd98]

Reavers looked good when I saw him play. Lakers won’t let him go. But I think the eye test tells me Vassel has more potential. He’s taller and longer and great shooter off picks. I can see him becoming a solid defender once the Spurs start trying to win and I think he has playmaking potential.

[objective]

Graham + Birch + Primo's Junk = starting salary for Reaves. It's not a big deal

The only slight perspective I could see on Reaves is his numbers on the playoffs being elevated due to heavy minutes. His per 36 numbers are worse as a result. But that's not a bad thing at all, if he's trusted to play that heavy and earns it. Just means any Spur numbers would be less as pop would probably keep his minutes at 30 or so

[BacktoBasics]

The actual argument for Vassell in my mind is seeing his potential as an iso scorer. Reaves is as capable on that end as he needs to be for his role. But Devin has a chance to be that guy who gets the ball at the end of quarters to make something happen. While we hope Wemba is that guy going forward, he probably won't start out there. Vassell is definitely the best choice of the guys from last year.

I do think Reaves has shown he's a better player than anyone on the Spurs have shown, and I don't think Vassell would've been a better performer than Reaves on LAL. Reaves was really, really good. I don't see why the idea that he performs at an elite level around stars is supposed to be a bad thing for a guy to put around Wemba.

How many games was Reaves “really really really really really good”?

Share your expectations for his greatness next year please.

[TekXX]

How many games was Reaves “really really really really really good”?

Share your expectations for his greatness next year please.

What's your expectation of the Spurs next year? Will we have really, really, really good games?

[InRareForm]

Nah. Some of us just understand the Lebron effect. Reaves won't remotely be the same player on another team without Lebron. He might not be the same player this year when defensives actually pay attention to him.

I watched tons of laker games he is very crafty, like hornaseck. It's impressive this early in his career the angles and space he can get.