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At the end, it is in the Spurs hand to build a team around Wemby that can win championships. The Spurs have a lot of FRP and some cap space to make things happen.
RGMers were talking about the Suns trading Durant. I would definitely prefer KD to anyone else extensively talked about. I can't think of a better mentor for Victor than Durant. He has the type of game Wemby wants to develop and is as far as I know an enthusiastic teacher. He also has one of the more unique career journeys for a guy of his talent, and I think he could provide a lot of wisdom in terms of what to do and what not to do in that regard. I don't know if the Spurs could be a contender given Durant's age. But as I said earlier in this thread, the point of the off-season isn't to win more games. It's to get Victor as set up as possible, and getting a guy who can be for him as David was to Tim seems like a dream come true.
Plus, yeah, if they made the right moves around it, Durant and Wemby absolutely could win a le as 1A and 1B.
At the end, it is in the Spurs hand to build a team around Wemby that can win championships. The Spurs have a lot of FRP and some cap space to make things happen.
That's fine. Plenty of others in this thread are looking for a 2 way monster, so it's definitely not "nobody". And personally I don't think Trae on a team of good defenders + Wemby would be the liability that some people here are making him out to be.What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wor...ing-nba-player
Donovan Mitc would be incredible but that's a best-case scenario... getting him would lock us in for multiple les IMO.Regarding which guards I'd rather have over Trae that might be available at the right price: Mitc , Garland and even Harden as a stopgap of two or three years (and yes, Harden is a much better defender than Young despite all the memes). Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry could be some other options.
Harden is abysmal, no way would I want him on this squad to prep for the future. Even if he made us better, he's not worth the locker room issues and I'm fairly certain Wemby wouldn't enjoy his presence. He's also 34 and his playoff performances aren't going to get any better going forward.
Conley and Lowry... are not going to take us anywhere. 0 chance of winning a le with those guys. Makes little sense to pursue them as they're just getting older and while they might be a bit of an upgrade at present, that's hardly the kind of move that's going to bring home les. Trae would be far more impactful from day 1, especially when you consider the goal is to take the load off Wemby and to draw defenders away from him. Neither of those guys address that issue, so it's a bit weird to even posit them in this situation.
And that's the rub. The whole idea behind winning with Wemby is finding players to put around him to contend. Even if, and that's a big if, there's a PG in the draft who could do that, it assumes he's 1) going to be available to us 2) can develop quickly enough to fit our timeline. Those are massive gambles with the level of superstar we have in Wemby. I'm not saying we need to win by next season or even the following, but we absolutely cannot sit on our hands and hope a star guard just falls into our lap in the draft. That's way too much rolling the dice.If not, I'd rather take my chances drafting someone or waiting to see which options become available next season.
I would trade anyone on this team + 4-5 picks to land Mitc . Outside of that, I don't see a lot of options for us atm. Maybe the situation changes a lot in a year or two and we can land someone we didn't expect, but it would be utterly foolish to chase an old broken down veteran PG who's limited in scoring if we have a shot at landing someone like Trae. We absolutely need more scoring options to limit what other team's defenses can load up on to throw at Wemby.
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 03-04-2024 at 10:44 PM.
What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wor...ing-nba-player
…
Have you noticed something about that?
It says that Trae Young’s individual DRTG is 122.6. Ok.
The Hawk’s team DRTG is 120.5.
Which means that Trae himself, personally, is responsible for giving up 102% of the points scored against the Hawks. (122.6/120.5=1.02) He is so bad that he is giving up more points than the other teams are scoring! Jeepers!
Which is why you shouldn’t just toss something like that into a discussion and think you’ve made a point. A bit more is required.
Compare those two numbers. The difference is 2.1. That is one bucket. The actual implication is that Trae is one bucket worse than the “average Hawks defender.”
If all the Hawks’ defenders were equal they would all have ratings the same as the team. They couldn’t be different.
Compare Tre Jones. Currently, Tre’s DRTG is 120.0 and the Spurs’ DRTG is 118.1. The difference is 1.9. So Tre is one bucket worse than the “average Spurs defender.”
Wemby. His current DRTG is 107.4.
118.1 - 107.4 = 10.7
More than five buckets better than the “average Spurs defender.” That’s rather a lot.
Gobert? Why not. His DRTG is 103.9 and the TWolves are at 108.4. Difference of 4.5. He’s 2.25 buckets better defensively than his team avg.
Wemby is more than twice as good defensively compared to his teammates as Gobert is, compared to his guys.
The stats say Wemby needs better teammates. Duh.
Chet? He’s 108.7, and OKC is 112.5. Diff of 3.8. He’s a little less than two buckets better defensively than his average teammate.
Small differences mount up over the course of the season. A team that can gain, say, just four points per game on average, either offensively or defensively, can expect a substantial improvement in their record.
Also a notable name on that list: Dejounte Murray is 16th worst.
One more reason why using flat DRTG as a gauge for defensive prowess is wrongthink.
Yeah, yeah, I know basketball's defensive metrics are far from being great indicators. I just used that graphic to illustrate a point. Still, it does warrant a mention that this is not a one time thing, Young has been ranked about this low throughout his entire career. Has he played in bad defense his entire career? If so, is it a coincidence that his teams are always this bad on defense? Something to think about.
Either way, my concerns with Young's defense don't come from metrics, but just from watching him play. His physical limitations are obvious but he also doesn't display any kind of feel on that side of the ball to make up for some of it. I know we have the potential GOAT defender to make up for it, but I would rather get someone that isn't as big of a liability on that side of the floor.
There’s a lot of conspiracy takes in this thread revolving around the media. Media talking heads aren’t scheming to get Wemby to another team.
Keyshawn works for ESPNKeyshawn Johnson and a random tweet
The tweet is from clutch points, which while not a major outlet, is a sports specific news site.
- interesting that for u an agnostic position is unreasonable …
- only a very small sample of fans have had those extrem scenarios of Wemby asking for a trade before the end of his rookie contact.
- why this unnecessary condescending way of talking mate? Do u see yourself that more smarter? You should take time to read properly next time, I nuanced my point and am very well aware of the importance of the form in the eventuality of his departure. I added that itd be done so that Spurs won’t be losing/not in a conflictuel way
the point remains the same, thinking knowing what Wemby thinks is stupid and pretentious.
In the regular season it wouldn't, but in championship level series, when elite teams plan specifically to beat you, Trae will be seen as an opportunity to exploit.
You obviously wouldn't be getting Conley or Lowry with expectations of ringing next year, tbh, but guess what? The Spurs are not ringing next year either, even if they get Trae. In fact, I don't think Trae is a championship level player. That's exactly why I don't want the Spurs trading for him.Donovan Mitc would be incredible but that's a best-case scenario... getting him would lock us in for multiple les IMO.
Harden is abysmal, no way would I want him on this squad to prep for the future. Even if he made us better, he's not worth the locker room issues and I'm fairly certain Wemby wouldn't enjoy his presence. He's also 34 and his playoff performances aren't going to get any better going forward.
Conley and Lowry... are not going to take us anywhere. 0 chance of winning a le with those guys. Makes little sense to pursue them as they're just getting older and while they might be a bit of an upgrade at present, that's hardly the kind of move that's going to bring home les. Trae would be far more impactful from day 1, especially when you consider the goal is to take the load off Wemby and to draw defenders away from him. Neither of those guys address that issue, so it's a bit weird to even posit them in this situation.
The idea of getting a Mike Conley or Kyle Lowry type player is to add some veteran mentorship and improve as a team. Nobody should expect to become contenders next season, tbh.
If you commit to Trae in this offseason, because of the draft capital that you would be giving out and the cap space that his contract demands, you are basically commiting to him being the second best player of our team for a long ass time. And like I previously said, I just don't think he's a championship level player. Getting a guy like Conley would help you improve, while still keeping your options open for a better player as Wemby's sidekick. That's the rationale behind getting a "broken down veteran PG" over Trae Young, tbh.And that's the rub. The whole idea behind winning with Wemby is finding players to put around him to contend. Even if, and that's a big if, there's a PG in the draft who could do that, it assumes he's 1) going to be available to us 2) can develop quickly enough to fit our timeline. Those are massive gambles with the level of superstar we have in Wemby. I'm not saying we need to win by next season or even the following, but we absolutely cannot sit on our hands and hope a star guard just falls into our lap in the draft. That's way too much rolling the dice.
I would trade anyone on this team + 4-5 picks to land Mitc . Outside of that, I don't see a lot of options for us atm. Maybe the situation changes a lot in a year or two and we can land someone we didn't expect, but it would be utterly foolish to chase an old broken down veteran PG who's limited in scoring if we have a shot at landing someone like Trae. We absolutely need more scoring options to limit what other team's defenses can load up on to throw at Wemby.
Keyshawn went to USC.
This is the position you stated in your first post for this thread. You certainly had no problem speculating on his mindset. So cut this about agnosticism. None of us KNOW Wemby's mind. Stating that isn't a stance as much a disengagement. You've already given your view and you don't "know" that it's true any more than I "know" my point is true. Difference is I admit that it's speculation in response to the report we got about Wemby's mentality. I'm not pretending to know.
Who knows how many? I haven't asked for a poll. But the level of anxiety shown by some posters here suggests they probably don't feel like the Spurs have seven or eight years.- only a very small sample of fans have had those extrem scenarios of Wemby asking for a trade before the end of his rookie contact.
Speaking tactfully and speaking condescendingly are different things. I was trying to tactfully tell you that you're off topic because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you legit don't understand that. I allowed for the possibility that you don't know what thread you were in. See for me, I was minding my own business talking about how I think Wemby's compe iveness might lead him to wanting to win in SA rather than complicate his legacy like Durant and James did by leaving for a super team and how that would mean the Spurs don't have to panic. Then you cartwheeled in here talking about how Wemby might leave for New York in seven or eight years for the media or culture or whatever. So I'm like, "Okay dude, that's fine, but we're not really talking about that. We're talking about whether the Spurs need to make a big move this summer to make Victor happy."why this unnecessary condescending way of talking mate?
So to say it less tactfully: This thread is about Windhorst's report saying that Wemby wants the Spurs to take immediate action to improve their team, how much we as fans should trust that report and what the consequences would be if that report is true. You started talking to me about stuff that isn't that, so I don't really care to engage with that. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I just don't care about it. It wasn't what we were talking about when you decided to jump in.
Conley just extended for 2/$20M with the Timberwolves and Lowry is a washed ring chaser.
I tried but you're sick Chinook, hope you fix yourself
And lol at selecting what fits your narrative, you must be something on political/more important topics ...
If anyone has paid half attention this is 100% what they are doing. Its why they playe din Austin. Its why they played in Mexico City. Its why they would play in Laredo and McAllen if they could.
Holt Cat the younger is seeing the Spurs while based in San Antonio as much, much more than JUST a San Antonio team.
Possibly. Could be wrong, but I don’t think the Hawks have been better than league average defensively since Budenholzer left.
… I would rather get someone that isn't as big of a liability on that [defensive] side of the floor.
So would I. The question is who.
The only players available are exactly that. The players who are available. That’s all there is.
If all you ever do is walk around the parlor dusting the knickknacks while you wait for Mr. Perfect to walk through the door you’re going to end up an old maid.
I don’t even know if Trae Young is possible. It’s only rumors.
Donovan Mitc has been mentioned. It’s interesting to compare him with Trae from the 2020-21 season up to now. Their advanced stats are remarkably similar in some ways.
PER
Mitc , 22.2
Young, 22.8
TS%
Mitc , .590
Young, .587
USG%
Mitc , 32.6
Young, 32.8
Of course other stats are quite different, but here’s the one that gets me.
AST%
Mitc , 25.8
Young, 44.7
Trae’s AST% is right up there with Jokic and Luka. Mitc is nowhere close. Not even in the same tier. Even after Mitc went to the Cavs with two bigs to pass to, Allen and Mobley, his AST% didn’t improve, in fact, it went down the first year.
As a player on his own you might lean towards Mitc , but as a teammate for Wemby, nah. Tre Jones has a higher AST% than Mitc , btw.
Maybe it’s a ‘me’ problem but when I see that wonderful AST% Trae has, it looks to me like a big flashing neon arrow that points straight at Wemby.
I don't know, The Mavs drafted Jalen Brunson with the 33rd pick. You never know when that player could be coming. The fact that there isn't one obvious answer right now doesn't mean that you have to settle for someone that, deep down in your core, you know is not good enough.
This is like being 22 years old and deciding to marry a woman you don't love, just because you don't see any other candidate out there. Chill out, you're young still, there's no reason for you to get married yet. Don't make a huge commitement now for someone that you know isn't what you really want just because you felt like you needed to "get someone". Sure, you can get a divorce down the road, but by then you would have wasted a lot of time and resources on that person that you always knew was never going to be good enough for you. Now you are 30, with only half of what you used to own, and having to start over to try and make up for lost time.
Wemby and KD would be insane for a few years but what's the cost tbh?
IDK if you guys know Tony Parker, but he was ass at Defense too. A lot of Luka fans on here, me included, and yet he's the same class as Trae with a lower 3pt% and worse FT%, along with less Avg Assists. Not exactly known for his D either lol. Is Luka bad too?
Its obvious the timeline has moved up, or maybe Spurs planned for this and have been building for it, considering they've been closely monitoring Wemby for years, coupled with the fact that they know a 7+ footer's time in the league is statistically more limited. As crazy as it sounds, we're in win now mode. It's a player's league and Tim Duncan retired. Wemby's camp is putting pressure on the Spurs, but also sending a message to every other star that he's ready to win now. Wemby isn't Timmy (who was close to leaving at one point too btw).
Trae Youngs don't grow on trees just like Lukas don't grow on trees. A 25 year old star entering his prime, who has playoff experience, has made multiple clutch shots, isn't afraid of the moment, and who's taken his team to the ECF isn't guaranteed to come to SA in the next few years. Spurs will absolutely jump at the opportunity. They have plenty of capital and, if it ends up happening, will likely agree to an amenable deal. Unlikely they overpay, but even if they do it wouldn't by much and it certainly wouldn't derail their future. Wemby is their future. For those who think Wemby alone will turn SA into an appetizing spot for other stars (I don't necessarily), then there's no reason to think that the Spurs won't be able to get another star if Trae doesn't work out. Not trying to get Trae though is just dumb.
Y'all keep wishing for a savior to help Wemby, or flip-flopping on whether Vassell and Sochan are gonna be ass or great. Truth is your savior is a 7'3 potential GOAT, and if you keep yapping about wanting him to call out Pop ,or throwing coins in your wishing well for the ideal perfect star, who, judging by the inconsistent posts, is an imaginary person, then your gonna watch your favorite player GTFO.
Last edited by TimmyBuckets; 03-05-2024 at 02:07 AM.
that's impossible, he's already the face of the league, playing in SA or NY.
First of all, drawing a picture from the moves he made in the past is misleading. He changed team because he considered he was not progressing enough, the goal was to be NBA ready. In terms of progress Victor must be absolutely satisfied with what he is achieving with the Spurs, physicality, 3 pts shooting, playmaking... if there was a MIP during the season he would win it comfortably.So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ?
There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc
However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd
I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.
It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.
Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur
Second the fact he is comfortable with the media and likes the attention does not mean he wants more than he has. He is not a party goer, he likes to go to bed early, he is reading and does not spend his time posting on social media. There is no scenario where he would choose LA or NYC for that kind of .
At the end, it is pretty clear he has 4 priorities: 1. stay healthy 2. improving his game 3. winning and 4. build a legacy. In 7/8 years health will be maintenance and he will reach his peak in terms of game. All will depend on winning and legacy, the only scenario where he would go somewhere else is if Spurs can't put quality teams together giving him a chance to ring every year. If he leaves one day SA, there will be 0 influence about big markets, social media stuff... all will be around winning, if the Spurs are too cheap to compete on a regular he will play for any team with a solid project and it could be okc or indiana.
The Spurs have all the cards on hand to retain him for his whole career... that's quite simple, preserve his health, coach him so that he progress, don't be cute and cheap, pay him the max always, don't be afraid to go above luxury tax to get him the best team mates possible.
The Spurs just gotta put a long term roster around him that makes them the le favorite and he will stay. He has to win at least 6 rings to enter the GOAT debate, so the goal has to be to form some type of superteam around Wemby that makes us the le favorite every season.
lol, that laker graphic features Dwight HOWARD!
Gregg Popovich is completely responsible for the -show of a season we’ve seen. Its been a wasted year and it didn’t need to be. Thank goodness Wemby loves the organization and its history. He’s done his part & must feel let down by the team’s inaction & poor planning. He should have been surrounded by competent players with a mix of youth and experience.
Claxton's backup?
Last edited by lefty; 03-05-2024 at 11:55 AM.
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