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I'm done with you BTW, go get your bleeding ass sown up again...and be glad I am not toeing the line for what happened to you the first time you came to this board..Dirk.
Well you won't find me bragging up their stats in series that they got bounced by an underdog. You missed my point, you are bragging up all these insignifcant stats and achievements that only you will remember and try to hang your hat on.
I'm done with you BTW, go get your bleeding ass sown up again...and be glad I am not toeing the line for what happened to you the first time you came to this board..Dirk.
They are signifigant...you just don't see it.
Why because Shaq in his 14th season is getting shutdown and D Wade, the best player on the team, is carrying them? Shaq is years past his prime, but I don't think you care, because you will grab on to anything to try and make it seem like your little man-crash is better.
More irrelevant garbage. I don't care how many times you claim that you are the winner of this debate, because you are just plain wrong.
He's getting shutdown because he is getting double teamed, the Mavs are packing the paint, save Superhiman penetration from Wade, and his teamates aren't hitting shots to break it up...
You miss the point entirely...
Shaq is doing his ing job in this series. He's getting doubled? He's doing his job...it's up to his teamates to change that. That's why it's a team ing game.
Shaq's always been defendable by fouling him and keeping him more than 5 feet away from the basket.
You're the one that judged everything by post season TEAM success...do I need to go back and find the quotes of you doing it?
How bout we just save some time. Here are the differentials for the notable playoff years (aka every year they weren't obvious role players, which Shaq just hit this year).
Regular Season/Playoff Differentials:
David Robinson
*note. Team made playoffs in 91/92, but he missed the last 14 games of the season and the playoffs with an injury. Missed all but 6 games in 96/97 and team missed the playoffs. Only 2 listed years he failed to play at least 80 games, and only one less than 70.
yr PPG FG% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG
89/90 +0.1 +0.2 -5.5 0 +1.3 -0.6 +0.1
90/91 +0.2 +13.4 +10.6 +0.5 -0.5 0 -0.1
92/93 -0.3 -3.6 -6.8 +0.9 +0.3 -0.5 +0.4
93/94 -9.8 -9.6 -0.8 -0.7 -1.3 -0.9 -0.8
94/95 -2.3 -8.4 +3.8 +1.3 +0.2 -0.1 -0.6
95/96 -1.4 0 -9.4 -2.1 -0.6 +0.1 -0.8
97/98 -2.2 +8.6 -10 +3.5 -0.1 +0.3 +0.7
98/99 -0.2 -2.6 +6.4 -0.1 +0.4 +0.2 0
99/00 +5.7 -13.9 +3.6 +4.2 +0.7 +0.6 +0.7
00/01 +2.2 -0.6 -5.2 +3.2 +0.2 +0.3 -0.1
Shaquile O'Neal
*note. Of years listed, played at least 80 games only once. 5 years of at least 70. 7 seasons below 70 games.
yr PPG FG% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG
93/94 -8.6 -8.8 -8.3 +0.1 -0.1 -0.2 +0.1
94/95 -3.6 -0.6 +3.9 +0.5 +0.6 0 -0.5
95/96 -0.8 +3.3 -9.4 -1.0 +1.7 +0.2 -.8
96/97 +0.7 -4.3 +12.6 -1.9 +0.1 -0.3 -1.0
97/98 +2.2 +2.8 -2.4 -1.2 +0.5 -0.1 +0.2
98/99 +0.3 -6.6 -7.4 +0.9 0 +0.2 +0.4
99/00 +1 -0.8 -6.8 +1.8 -0.7 +0.1 -0.6
00/01 +1.7 -1.7 +1.2 +2.7 -0.5 -0.2 -0.4
01/02 +1.3 -5.0 +9.4 +1.9 -0.2 -0.1 +0.5
02/03 -0.5 -3.9 -0.1 +3.7 +0.6 0 +0.5
03/04 0 +0.9 -6.1 +1.7 -0.5 -0.2 +0.3
04/05 -3.5 -4.3 +1.1 -2.6 -0.8 -0.1 -0.8
Hakeem Olajuwon
5 years of 80+, 10 years of 70+, 3 less than 70. Missed playoffs once while playing 70+ games.
yr PPG FG% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG
84/85 +0.6 -6.1 013.5 +1.1 0 +0.2 -0.1
85/86 +3.4 +0.4 -0.7 +0.3 0 0 +0.1
86/87 +5.8 +10.7 +4.0 -0.1 -0.4 -0.6 -0.9
87/88 +14.7 +5.7 +18.9 +4.7 =0.3 +0.2 +0.1
88/89 +0.5 +0.9 -1.6 -0.5 +1.2 -0.1 -0.6
89/90 -5.8 -5.8 -0.7 -2.5 -0.9 +0.4 +1.2
90/91 +0.8 +7.0 +5.5 +0.9 -0.3 -0.8 -1.2
92/93 -0.4 -1.2 +4.8 -1.0 +1.3 0 +0.7
93/94 +1.6 -0.9 +7.9 -0.9 +0.7 +0.1 +0.3
94/95 +5.8 +1.4 -7.5 -0.5 +1.0 -0.6 -0.6
95/96 -4.5 -0.4 +0.1 -1.8 +0.3 +0.3 -0.8
96/97 -0.1 +8.0 -5.6 +1.7 +0.4 +0.6 +0.4
97/98 +4.0 -8.9 -2.8 +1.0 -0.6 -0.6 +1.2
Whott does have a point in that Robinson's nosedive corresponds with the loss of Strickland, Anderson, and really big when Elliot left. Noticed the -9.8 is when the Spurs best shooter was Vinny del Negro, and he was best with pull-ups so he was nearly useless in a half-court offense. When Elliot came back the next year, Robinson's numbers went back up. It is quite a valid point. Strangely, it was also after his first major injury, so I wonder if that might have had a bigger effect than we know.
Hakeem and Shaq were also pretty well rested for the playoffs too since they both missed quite a few games on a regular basis (especially Shaq)
Robinson was easily the best in the regular season. Hakeem easily the best in the playoffs.
Still looks to me like Hakeem is easily #1 and Robinson and Shaq are close (to the point of it being a preference call).
Fair enough....but Drob and Shaq aren't that close when you look at their head to head matchups...and head to head record.
Also please note that Robinsons drop in FG% corresponds with a rise in assist and FTA totals...
IE he was getting the living double teamed out of him, mauled..and passing out of it to little or no benefit. IT's one thing to pass to Mario Elie...it's entirely another to pass to a guy who made 1 playoff 3 pointer in his 20 year career.
That best shooter you mentioned...was also the PG on the Spurs that year...a second string Euro 2 guard was his PG.
Think about that for a second...
The question is not, why did he get his ass kicked by a team featuring multiple HOF'ers...the question is...how in the did he win 55 games with that team?
Like I said early on...Drob's crime is being good enough to get teams in way over their heads...and carry them way further than they had any business being.
Drob never failed to make the playoffs...he never failed to have a winning record...he never got swept.
That's not true of Shaq or Hakeem.
So either you think he always had more talent...or you have to admit he did more with less...
Of course, he's got 5 IBM awards and a buttload of electic stat crowns to back this up.
So he isn't getting shut down, and D Wade isn't carrying them? I never said that Shaq was playing bad, just said that he's being shut down, which is true. And what does this have to do with Robinson being better than Shaq and Hakeem? Nothing, just another BS attempt at changing the arguement because you are dead wrong about the other. I love how you always put words in other people's mouths, has worked for you in the past? Might be you favorite move.
Is there an explanation for why he could put those numbers up in the regular season but not in the playoffs, somewhere in that load of ? I couldn't find a good one, but please try again. Any significant injuries to Robinson or his "bum teammates" that might explain? Or is that "well rested" line supposed to be it?
Hey if that makes you feel any better, than you can have it!! Congratu- ing-lations to the new king of the regular season!!!!!!!!!! Nice.
I definitely agree with you. DRob was way too good at making people overperform in the regular season. unforuntately the playoffs is where things like that are exposed.
But DRob was swept in 00/01 in the WCF by the Lakers.
His teammates weren't the only ones that were exposed in the playoffs.
Gee, you mean the playoffs when the compe ion is not only better, but plays harder and has more time to plot strategies?
You honestly want to argue that he should have been able to carry that performance over with no shooters, when you're entire argument before was Shaq did better in the playoffs when everything is tougher?
The playoffs are when flaws are exposed, and those Spurs teams were monstrously flawed, not DRob.
Oh, it was his teammates fault!!!!!!! HAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!! Nothing has ever been Robinson's fault in the history of his career!!! Saint David!!!
this , you guys can continue on sucking his without me as a witness. Done with this .
whott>>>>>>>>>>BAkriD
dumb you have to bring your A game against whott. Right know your
DRob's playoff stats would be down due to the obvious playoff strategy of doubling DRob and forcing the supporting cast to beat you. With a cast consisting of players like Vinny Del Negro and Negele Knight that's not exactly a bad plan.
I'm not sure why some like to argue that DRob had anything approaching a good supporting cast circa 1992-96. The summer of '92 took care of DRob's supporting cast with the free agency loss of Strickland for nothing and Terry mings blowing out his knee. Even before then you had a team with suspect perimeter shooting. For a team with a dominant big that's not a good quality.
I never realized the Spurs had such a great supporting cast in the mid-90s. Guess I missed that as I prayed every season for help via trade, free agency, theft, etc...for DRob.
Whottt sucks Robinson's , and you suck Whottt's !!!!!!! Keep up the good work you little suckass.whott>>>>>>>>>>BAkriD
dumb you have to bring your A game against whott. Right know your
True..but he wasn't the focal point of the offense, and was way way past his prime. The others were all swept in their prime.
It's rather obvious. Just looking at the quality of teammates DRob has in relation to the movements of his stats. When he had better teammates, his playoff improvement improved, when he had bad teammates, he had worse.
Just look at Shaq's numbers. His numbers went up in the playoffs for the first time when he went to LA. Do you think that had nothing to do with LA having a better supporting cast than he had in Orlando?
I'm not trying to say it was ALL the teammates fault. But it definitely played a large role in the drop. And if you don't see that, you are rather dense.
This why you are a dubmass...
Shaq's is gettig shut down, at the cost of leaving another man open on his team...
Shaq is doing the right ing thing by passing out of it...becauise it's ing stupid to try and score on a double team,,,
You dumbass...god you are stupid about the ing game.
Kobe isn't carrying them? Or Penny? Or Drexler?and D Wade isn't carrying them?
No one ever carried Drob's teams but Drob....that's the point.
He's a drawing ing double team...do you think he'd be drawing a double team if he sucked?I never said that Shaq was playing bad, just said that he's being shut down, which is true.
Damn you are ing stupid.
You want to him to stand out there and shoot 10 footers over 2 guys because his POS teamates aren't stepping up?
Or do you want him to play team ing ball and pass to the open guy?
You're kng stupid.
The only time bigman needs to be scoring on doubles is when his perimeter teamates absolutely suck.., which for DRob was often...and Shaq is going to need to do it too eventually...
But if you think he's going to shoot 60% with two ing men on him...you are stupider than I thought...and that's saying a lot, because I think you are incredibly ing stupid.
Bu it won't happen...because I guran ingtee you that Wade is going to get two guys on him quite often in the next game...
Just like Kobe used too...
Now if you can point out someone on those Spurs teams capable of doing that...I'll concede that Shaq and Hakeem were better leaders than David Robinson..but you can't so I won't have too...and you're still ing stupid about the game.
]
^^^^^^^^^More of the same. Nice rant about things I never actually said, what a jerkoff you are. I think you need this site for this kind of interaction, makes you feel smart. Just not smart enough to figure out that you are really just arguing with yourself. Half the thing you rant and rave about weren't even said in this thread! What a pathetic showing.
BTW, I want to amend my list.
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem
6. Duncan
7. Moses Malone
8. Robinson
9. Ewing
Robinson is getting close to falling out of the top 10.
I never knew Negele Knight was so good.
How bout Game 6 in Houston in 95 with the Spurs down 4 and 2 minutes left in the game. David Robinson gets fouled and goes to the line. He misses both FT's. Then with a minute left he drives down the lane and turns the ball over trying a desperation pass. 2 missed FT's and a huge TO with the game still reachable. I see you talking about Elliott's misses that series ad nauseum but why do DRob's huge misses in the final moments of the clinching game of the last game of the Spurs season not count?
So by this logic Norm Van Brocklin is the best QB in the history of the NFL because no one else has ever thrown for more yards than him in a single game?
Alvin Robertston is better than Magic Johnson because he had a quadruple double and Magic never did?
Robinson did indeed have the highest single FG% over a postseason series. But why does this override the overall postseason FG%'s of Shaq (55 plus) Hakeem (53) vs. DRob (47) over the course of entire careers? These guys played in about 20-25 playoff series over their careers. One/20-25 is about 4 or 5% of their postseason resumes.
If Dirk goes against Memphis for 72% FG next yr in the playoffs, is he > DRob? I think not.
Hakeem and Shaq were both doubled and tripled just as much as DRob. Just look at the series in 95 where you claim Hakeem was never double teamed, yet he nearly doubled his career assist average with 5.5 assists a game that series Hakeem wouldn't see his assist per game average rise in the playoffs from reg season if he was double teamed less.
Now if you're argument is that Hakeem had more 3 pt shooters than DRob's that is obviously true. The thing is though that as an NBA coach you're almost always going to try to take away the other team's #1 and higest % option to make others beat you. Even if they are good outside shooters like Fisher, Elie, Bowen, etc. It's still your best chance. Also, while AJ couldn't shoot a lick, he was a much better penetrator as far as drive n dish than guys like Derek FIsher (SHaq) and Kenny Smith (opposite of AJ who were good spot-up (great in Smith's case) shooters but not pure PGs.
Case in point is Tim Duncan. He's had excellent talent around him his whole career but teams still consistently double team him because shots in the paint are just higher % so you have to try to minimize them. Other than the Mavs of this year, almost every team has double teamed Duncan extensively in the playoffs. You have no choice unless you have a Rasheed Wallace Defensively.
Same with Shaq. Regardless of how good Bryant was, you had to swarm on Shaq or he'd dunk on you or get a 2 foot shot almost everytime down. This is why Bryant's game
Also Vinny was an excellent mid range shooter. His range didnt extend to the 3 point line and he was very weak defensively but the guy could shoot up to about 18-19 feet.
I would agree that he was really the weak link on the Spurs team all in all though in terms of holding them back (much moreso than AJ who you seem to just loathe).
No one is saying Robinson wasn't great because he was, just not on par with the aforementioned guys.
Hakeem did have better 3 pt shooters in his prime than DRob (though not in his early years until about 93). But is Cassell the reason Hakeem had 15 post moves and an unstoppable turnaround J or is taht because it's a skill he worked hard to develop?
Is Parker the reason Duncan is money on the bank shot up to 16-18 feet or skill? Is Bowen the reason Duncan has incredible Mchale and Hakeemesque footwork or is it because of the work he put in at Wake Forest honing his game?
Your constantly referring to how AJ couldn't shoot is also misleading and I'm sure you know this. No one is going to argue AJ COULD shoot. But DRob did have some quality shooters over portions of his career, namely Dale Ellis and Chuck Person. Elliott also had good range for a SF and Vinny had a nice jumper but couldn't hit from the arc.
Did AJ lead to some problems spreading the court with SA? Absolutely he did. Teams would typically rotate to all the other shooters but AJ and dare him to hit 15-20 footers. He never hit a good %.
But it's not like Vernon Maxwell, Hakeem's 2G for most of his prime was a great shooter. He was really erratic and a low % shooter. And it's not like Robinson had 4 scrubs surrounding him who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. It was really mainly AJ who hurt SA in the outside shooting dept. Vinny really hurt SA defensively.
Damn...FUkwiT is still here?
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