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Oh man, a tag team duo of whottt and Sequ.
What shall I do?
Since when does a Dallas fan first and foremost get to tell Spurs fans who is and who isn't remaining loyal to the Spurs' franchise?
It's classic that you defend Kerr with your life, even though he had like 1/10000000th of the impact on the Spurs that AJ had.
Which also brings up how you were Jacque Vaughn's biggest supporter this year (well, after you flip flopped after hating him to begin the year). Vaughn is at best a poor man's AJ ... yet you worship him.
Oh man, a tag team duo of whottt and Sequ.
What shall I do?
It's quite objective. I think 80% of Spurs fans disagree with this retirement, for whatever reason.
But, it's not a democratic vote. The Spurs have spoken, so why argue? Avery's sorry ass #6 is going in the rafters.. cuz he was a good man. Not because of his play on the court. The Spurs were trying to get rid of his ass every day he played or at least make him a backup. True, that's a fact.
Malik Rose was just who I thought he was. A scrub.
That makes absolutely no sense. You're saying that AJ's leadership to the Spurs should be questioned because he didn't act like a Spurs' leader when he went elsewhere.
Aside from the fact that timvp hasn't ever held himself out to be a leader of the Spurs, I'm not sure what a fan bashing an ex-Spur has to do with assessments of leadership exhibited by players. Was AJ just supposed to never speak of the Spurs again, or to only do so in reverent terms? He went elsewhere and when he did, he still had to compete against the Spurs, which meant that he would be asked (naturally) about things taking place with the Spurs. That he spoke stupidly while in that situation does not detract from the fact that his coaches and teammates generally agree that he was a leader while in San Antonio -- what he did while in San Antonio is the only thing that matters to assessing whether his number should be retired.
Again, if you expected AJ to act like a Spurs leader and not try to mix things up with the Spurs once he left, that's ridiculous. If you're going to hold it against him that he did mix things up with the Spurs once he left, that's even more ridiculous.
With each post he makes, Sequ lifts AJ's number higher and higher into the rafters.
Thanks.
maybe the Spurs can add an * to AJ's number
No matter what I say or do or care about, Avery's jersey is going into the rafters anyway.With each post he makes, Sequ lifts AJ's number higher and higher into the rafters.
Thanks.
WGAF? So why argue? It's objective. He is the assist leader because of his hall of fame teammates.
Bro, on any other team, his azz would be tearing tickets in the parking lot.
Outside of his time with Drob and Duncan, he didn't do . Just like your boy Malik.
There is, perhaps, the most valid point made in this entire thread.
If Sean Elliott wasn't too afraid to take that last shot we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. AJ might be the first backup point guard to start for a championship team, but I doubt it.
When's Mario Elie's ceremony?
Mario Elie was a Rocket who played for the Spurs for two years. Why don't we honor Dominique Wilkins or Moses Malone?When's Mario Elie's ceremony?
While I don't mind the jersey retirement, there will always be one big difference in my opinion between Avery Johnson and those who already have their jersey's retired (including Moore) and those who will get retired in the future (TD, Manu, TP, and Bowen).
And that is this:
Everyone else could stand in a crowded AT&T Center or Alamodome and declare into a microphone that no matter what, they'll always be a Spur. That they will be a Spur for life.
That kind of genuine emotion that exists between true Spur greats and the franchise and city is special. It's what Johnny Moore has even though his career was cut short, he IS a Spur for life.
But Avery isn't, at least from what I can tell. And it's not just a matter of now he's in coaching and has a new phase in his career. Avery was never a Spur for life. Even this business of people praising his involvement in the community . . . from my memory, even during his Spurs seasons, Avery's community involvement was always in Houston. That's where Avery's heart was. When it came time to do community work, it was in Houston. When it was time to work out, it was Houston. When it came to where to live, unlike DR and Elliott . . . it was, you guessed it, Houston.
Avery is the one guy who will be in the rafters who I believe would NOT say with pride, "I will always be a Spur." Even if he was out of coaching and doing broadcasting or whatever, that's how it would be.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe come the night of the ceremony Avery will throw out something along the lines of what I'm talking about, beyond what I predict will be a lot of expected praise for David Robinson and Elliott and Pop and the city.
But if I'm right, I think that's a poor thing that all the retirees won't have the same at ude about things.
-----
Just an aside about Johnny Moore, of whom I only remember his last season and that not very well:
in 82-83 playoffs, where they lost to the Lakers in the conference finals, Johnny Moore had some incredible numbers. Just straight up ridiculous.
11 games
22.5 points
14.6 assists
4.3 rebounds
2.5 steals
53% total FG shooting
53% 3pt shooting
his assist to turnover ratio was 5.75 to 1
and he had as many steals as he did turnovers in the playoffs
Last edited by objective; 10-03-2007 at 06:56 PM.
this sucks, who's next Ellie, Horry, Malik, JJ....give me a break.
yea, Johnny Moore was a better point guard than people give him credit for. At his best he was a much better player than Avery Johnson.
I can't use that word without thinking of the movie. And when did I call you obtuse before?
And for the record, in this case I didn't actually call you obtuse. You would know that if you weren't so, um, wrong.
What you said is how I feel about AJ and Johnny Moore. If 00 is up there, then AJ has to be.To clarify my position (albeit a few days late) I think that prior to AJ getting his number retired, there might have been room for debate on Bowen. In all likelihood Duncan, Gino, and Parker will get their numbers hung up as well barring any of them converting to Satanism, signing with Lakers, or setting fire to the Coyote. Of those four players from this championship group you have a no brainer HOFer in Duncan, two guys who could end up there (Parker & Ginobili), and a journeyman who blossomed into an incredible defender with the Spurs.
I'm not hating on Bowen. I'm just saying that just as some had doubts about Elliott getting his number retired because of the gulf of talent between him and guys like Ice and the Admiral, Bowen might have seen similar doubts because of the company he would be in. Retiring #6 removes any sort of room for debate on Bowen.
If you pull the original thread about this argument long ago, my preference has always been that there be a little high threshold for retiring numbers. Elliott would have been my minimum candidate, with discussion about Kenon and Mitc .
Once you extend the sentiment criteria down to include the likes of Moore, you've opened the floodgates.
You could grab onto it and not let go.
Dancing With The Stars.
Did anyone else hear what Bruce said about Avery's jersey retirement, something like "Let him come down here so he can see his jersey next to all our championship banners." I don't know if this is exactly what he said but more less.
Avery.
How many rings did they win for us again?
o, first time poster, long time lurker. I do not like this news, at all. What a crappy way to begin the new season. AJ was a mediocre player, he was an asshole to David Robinson ("Jesus is ashamed of you"), he was a prick to both Tony and Manu, and he's turned into an absolute jackass with the Mavs.
Why are we honoring him? The '99 Spurs were the best defensive team in history. 20 starting NBA point guards that year could have won a ring with them. They weren't going to screw it up with Robinson and Duncan and a veteran crew.
Like other people here have already stated, I think this really lowers the standards of the honor. Forget Bowen, that's already a given. We're gonna have to do it for Horry and Malik too. , if we repeat this year, maybe Fab will get a nod too.
Welcome to the forum.
Amen and Halleujah!
Dude, you seem to be in the minority on this one.
Is there a number currently hanging in the rafters that does not still live in SA? Seriously asking as I have not lived in SA over the last 8 years.
Point on about AJ and Houston. He never adopted SA as "his town" like so many other players. How is that relevant? Well, we are talking about his intangibles and endearing himself to his teammates as the main reasons he is going in the rafters. If he is going up there on the Sentimentality Vote, it should be noted that he could be the only such honored player that did not consider SA as home.
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