Popovich pops off on Grizzlies' controversial swap

[VaSpursFan]

Arena's take on his blog :

The Gasol Trade
The Lakers stole Pau Gasol. They hi-jacked him. That should be a crime. You don’t give away Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and a rookie. I don’t care what’s out there, you can get more than that. You gave away a $100 bill and you got back two nickels and a dime. Now the Lakers are a top four team, maybe even higher in the Western Conference. You have Bynum and the five and Pau at the four? That means you have two scorers who are 7-foot plus at the four and the five, which reminds me of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Then you have Lamar Odom, who’s a 7-footer at the three and he gets to play free and do all the stuff he’s capable of doing, and then they have Mr. 81 at the two. You can put anybody at the one. Who cares who’s the one. I mean, they have their championship, veteran one in Derek Fisher, but that’s just a huge plus. You don’t even need him.

It seems like a pretty stupid move by Chris Wallace. No offense, I don’t know him personally, but you don’t give away Pau Gasol for what they got back. I mean, Chicago wanted Pau Gasol. They would have given something back in return. I mean, something. Ladies and gentlemen, they have Darko and Kwame at the four and the five. That’s all I’m going to say.

Shaq is back in the West and Kobe’s got Gasol - the two teams that hate each other with the two players that hate each other. Wow, how the NBA works.

agent 0 is hilarious

[conqueso]

in fact i'm fairly certain that noch and the bulls #1 from last year (the NYK pick) were early demands of MEM that CHI refused.

so again, i don't think that trade, though better for MEM, was ever on the table nor would it ever be.

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

If we're working with the assumption that Memphis did not favor trading with LA because of some sort of bias or whatever, then the Chicago trade helps Memphis a LOT more than the Lakers trade did. Nocioni and Smith's contracts expire after this season, and Noah is a much better prospect than Marc Gasol and Crittenton. It doesn't screw Chicago's salary much either, and they do have the money to afford paying the luxury tax. And it's not like they're "giving up that much"...they'd be trading a guy who has struggled to fit into their system and has underperformed all year (Nocioni), a guy who's on his last legs (Smith), and their young post prospect who has already alienated his teammates (Noah). In return, they'd be getting an elite Center not yet in his prime to pair with Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas. That team would have a chance of making a late playoff push (they're only a game and a half out of the eighth seed) and, at least on paper, looks good enough to compete with the Celtics and Pistons for the next couple of years.

[conqueso]

in fact i'm fairly certain that noch and the bulls #1 from last year (the NYK pick) were early demands of MEM that CHI refused.

so again, i don't think that trade, though better for MEM, was ever on the table nor would it ever be.

I guess the point I'm making is that Memphis asked for MUCH less from the Lakers last week than they might have been asking from the Bulls several months ago. Since they obviously have relaxed their demands, they could have gotten something much better from the Bulls than they got from the Lakers based on all of the things they were apparently looking for, but something caused them to take the ty end of the stick and trade with the Lakers instead of with the Bulls.

[TwinFlowers]

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

yep. and that's the way it is in the league. look at MIN's demands for KG as recently as last season, NJN's demands for kidd, IND's demands for JO, and yeah, MEM's demands for pau . . . you wait long enough they come waaaaay down.

CHI was not giving all that up for pau. call it dumb, i do, but that's the way it is. had they been willing to give that up pau would have been a bull before last year's draft.

MEM asked for that exact deal last year . . . sam smith has some spin out now about CHI making that pick available to MEM before that draft, but that's all it is, spin. all the sources out of MEM were/are saying had CHI ponied up either deng or noch and the rights to the NYK pick last year this is done long ago. they didn't.

so i agee with you, that would have been a much better trade, but it was asked for and rejected.

[TwinFlowers]

IND was demanding lamar odom AND bynum for JO this summer fer chrissakes.

you think they'll get anything close to that next summer?

it's this way more often than not.

[TwinFlowers]

and noccioni's K doesn't end next year. he inked a 5-year deal this summer. he's paid for a long time now.

sam smith even admits, in between a good dose a spin about what CHI had offered this offseason, that CHI and MEM had talked in recent weeks before the trade. MEM had talked to several teams.

and yet they chose an 'inferior' deal from LA why?

[conqueso]

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

yep. and that's the way it is in the league. look at MIN's demands for KG as recently as last season, NJN's demands for kidd, IND's demands for JO, and yeah, MEM's demands for pau . . . you wait long enough they come waaaaay down.

CHI was not giving all that up for pau. call it dumb, i do, but that's the way it is. had they been willing to give that up pau would have been a bull before last year's draft.

MEM asked for that exact deal last year . . . sam smith has some spin out now about CHI making that pick available to MEM before that draft, but that's all it is, spin. all the sources out of MEM were/are saying had CHI ponied up either deng or noch and the rights to the NYK pick last year this is done long ago. they didn't.

so i agee with you, that would have been a much better trade, but it was asked for and rejected.

"All that?" All that?!? It's Nocioni, Noah and Joe Smith! For a team that was expected to rule the East this season and is currently 11th, trading those three dudes--none of whom are integral or even important pieces on their team--is nothing when Gasol is the payoff.

We can agree that if this trade (or something substantially similar) was offered to Chicago and they declined to do it, they were being dumb. But we have no clue whether Memphis even informed any team (other than the Lakers) that they were now all of a sudden willing to take pennies on the dollar for Gasol. In fact, some GMs are already coming out and saying that they had made overtures to Memphis for Gasol earlier in the season or last season but didn't deal because the price was too high. Why didn't the Grizzlies inform anyone else who they could have gotten much better deals from that their asking price had been slashed?

This is the issue that has caused so many eyebrows to be raised, as well they should, because if Memphis was willing to take "two nickels and a dime" for Gasol from anyone, they would have gotten way better offers than Kwame, Crittenton and Marc Gasol.

[conqueso]

and noccioni's K doesn't end next year. he inked a 5-year deal this summer. he's paid for a long time now.

sam smith even admits, in between a good dose a spin about what CHI had offered this offseason, that CHI and MEM had talked in recent weeks before the trade. MEM had talked to several teams.

and yet they chose an 'inferior' deal from LA why?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

This site doesn't reflect that deal.

[ChumpDumper]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

This site doesn't reflect that deal.

Blank spaces on that site mean they know he's signed for that season but don't know the terms.

Nocioni, a restricted free agent, signed a five-year contract reportedly worth $37.5 million....

The Bulls added some depth to their frontcourt with the signing of the 6-foot-10 Smith to a reported two-year contract worth the mid-level veteran exception of $5.36 million annually.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941626

[TwinFlowers]

hoopshype is wrong. he re-signed early this summer. old news.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/...p.asp?ID=52458


and it's not me saying 'all that' . . . i would have gladly made that trade if i was the bulls GM.

but pax rejected that offer, noccioni and the knick's pick, plus K for gasol. i had assumed it was all on pax, but a lot of what i've read out of CHI since the trade makes me thing the bull's FO didn't want to commit that kind of salary to gasol.

i mean, i'm with you. i do that CHI trade too. but CHI didn't.

[conqueso]

Blank spaces on that site mean they know he's signed for that season but don't know the terms.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941626

Ah, gotcha. Poor Chicago, signing Nocioni and Hinrich to long term deals only to find out that both of them kinda suck.

[TwinFlowers]

from the above link . . .

The deal officially cannot be signed before July 11. Financial terms were not available, but the Chicago Tribune reported it was for approximately $38 million. Nocioni was a restricted free agent who had drawn the attention of the Memphis Grizzlies.

MEM wanted noch for a long time. it was no secret. they asked for him from the get go. CHI signing him effectively killed any deal between the team unless CHI suddenly wanted to deal deng . . . which c'mon, pax loves deng.

[TwinFlowers]

i actually like noccioni a lot. an odom for noch deal this summer would be fine with me.

[conqueso]

i actually like noccioni a lot. an odom for noch deal this summer would be fine with me.

Gasol for Balkman, Malik Rose, Fred Jones, NYs trade exception and cash. Tons of salary cap relief, a minor prospect in Balkman. This trade is about as good as the Lakers trade, and don't tell me that Isiah wouldn't do it, because since having three scoring big men on your team is such a bad idea that Isiah would be more likely to do it.

[conqueso]

Gasol for Arroyo, Garrity, Dooling, picks and cash. Move Gasol to the four and make him the focal point of the offense with a twin towers attack similar to Duncan and Robinson circa '00. This would probably be the best defensive front court ever. The Magic would overnight become the favorites in the East. Dwight Howard wouldn't have to worry about scoring (which is fine, because he's not a very good scorer). Memphis would get three expiring contracts and Gasol's long-term deal off the books, plus some picks (although no ty rookie prospects).

[conqueso]

Gasol for Kurt Thomas, Robert Swift, Johan Petro, picks and cash. Seattle's front line becomes nasty, and Memphis gets three bigs, one who is so old he's about to die (and whose contract is up after this season), and two others who have upside. Memphis gets big time cap relief.

[TwinFlowers]

if the knicks would add their pick, that's a good deal for MEM. not sure if they would . . . but with zeke who knows? and i don't think a trade X can be used that way either . . . they can't be combined for sure, but let's say it works.

but w/o the pick there isn't anything there other than the same cap relief the lakers gave them. javaris and marc gasol are both better prospects that balkman. no contest really.

and again with ORL, the ending K adds up but what's left? MEM gets nothing . . . which is better than critt and marc gasol? and when dooling garrity, and arroyo are gone next year, how do they fill the roster space? they have to have someone, who will certainly cost more than critt.

those deals make sense for NY i guess if they figure out what to do with that crowded front court and for ORL i guess . . . but i don't see where this makes MORE sense for the grizz than what they got from LA.

do you even see a huge difference here? or even a significant difference?

[TwinFlowers]

and again, i've said if MEM could get an unprotected lotto pick (either from MIA or the knicks) that was the deal to do.

but i've seen nothing that indicates there were any such offers made.

SEA isn't looking to add salary. theyr'e rebuilding, and not interested in players like pau. dealing for pau goes against everything they did this past summer.

petro and swift? have you seen them?

[ChumpDumper]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade, so that Knicks deal is out.

Seattle is in complete cheapskate mode until they move.

Orlando? I haven't read that they were shopping any players, and carrying three max salaries is a lot for that market

It's fun to play armchair GM, but it takes a whole lot to make such trades come together. No doubt Wallace took the cost saving deal when got a decent one.

[TwinFlowers]

and i get it . . . you can use the realgm trade checker . . .

you can get all kinds of trades to match up dollars and cents wise. but that doesn't mean anything. unless the trade matches the direction both teams are heading and their realistic salary structure, it's not going to happen.

that's like 90% of those trades you've proposed.

SEA, MIN, probably CHI, DEN . . . those teams and a ton more aren't adding significant salary . . . NYK, MIA . . . those teams probably aren't dealing away any picks . . . half of your deals don't have anything but K relief period coming back to MEM.

[conqueso]

and again, i've said if MEM could get an unprotected lotto pick (either from MIA or the knicks) that was the deal to do.

but i've seen nothing that indicates there were any such offers made.

SEA isn't looking to add salary. theyr'e rebuilding, and not interested in players like pau. dealing for pau goes against everything they did this past summer.

petro and swift? have you seen them?

I threw the NY trade out there as a joke, no one would ever be that stupid, not even Isiah. They already have a post player on the bench who should be a starter, I don't think they could swing two.

As for Seattle, "rebuilding" means that you are shedding contracts in hopes of signing a big time free agent, or, in the very long term, signing your franchise player draftees to high dollar extensions of their rookie contracts. Gasol's contract runs through '11, at which point they're still paying Durant only $6 mil. You can't honestly say that Gasol wouldn't fit in with Seattle's game plan since he's a dependable scorer and a great defender. He would give PJ Carlesimo exactly what he wants and something he is very familiar coaching. The big man prospects they give up (especially Swift) are at least as good as Crittenton and Marc Gasol.

[conqueso]

and i get it . . . you can use the realgm trade checker . . .

you can get all kinds of trades to match up dollars and cents wise. but that doesn't mean anything. unless the trade matches the direction both teams are heading and their realistic salary structure, it's not going to happen.

that's like 90% of those trades you've proposed.

SEA, MIN, probably CHI, DEN . . . those teams and a ton more aren't adding significant salary . . . NYK, MIA . . . those teams probably aren't dealing away any picks . . . half of your deals don't have anything but K relief period coming back to MEM.

Why is that a problem? That's the only thing coming back to Memphis in the Lakers deal.

[TwinFlowers]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade . . .

thanks chump. that's what i thought.

[conqueso]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade, so that Knicks deal is out.

Seattle is in complete cheapskate mode until they move.

Orlando? I haven't read that they were shopping any players, and carrying three max salaries is a lot for that market

It's fun to play armchair GM, but it takes a whole lot to make such trades come together. No doubt Wallace took the cost saving deal when got a decent one.

Apparently all it takes for trades to come together is some team throwing out an expiring contract, a low paid rookie, and the rights to a guy who isn't even in the NBA. It seems that if teams knew that was all it would take, there would be at least a few who would see taking on Gasol's contract as a worthwhile expenditure, especially teams who are on the cusp of contention and need one more piece to become a frontrunner. Not all teams would jump at the chance to get Gasol, but don't you think more than just one would?

Anyway, the point of this exercise wasn't to give a bunch of trades that would actually happen. The point was to demonstrate that there were other deals out there that were better for Memphis that weren't offered, weren't accepted, weren't pursued, whatever.

What we have to ask now is why would Memphis literally take a deal that is incredibly ty for them if other better deals existed out there.

[TwinFlowers]

SEA is not taking on any salary, period. they're looking to build through the draft. pau runs counter to both of those goals. he adds salary and adds wins and is a proven non-fan magnet.

he does nothing that meshes with what that team wants to do.

Why is that a problem? That's the only thing coming back to Memphis in the Lakers deal.

well assuming i agree (which i don't) i guess that's the problem . . . where are all these superior deals at? frankly, i don't see them.

and wasn't that the issue? that MEM took a grossly inferior deal, for some mysterious reason that nobody can seem to articulate, to send gasol to the lakes?

i'm just asking what these deals are, is all.

you know, the really good ones. that MEM passed up.