Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[Phenomanul]

I wouldn't call it solid

He listed Galileo.... the poor man would have been put to a swift death by the Inquisition if he renounced the Church.

Vatican leaders don't lead the Church.... Christ does. Your reluctance to accept that doesn't change the fact that Galileo was indeed a follower of Christ...

Those clerical leaders were grotesquely wrong about a many things, including the Inquisition...

I'm sure if I go down that list, I can find other bull ones.

Knock yourself out... Maybe it's time you actually give Christian scientists their due... Instead of proliferating the lie that they were all athiests...

Let's not forget that Albert Einstein himself also became a Deist... even though he didn't believe in the Christian GOD of the Bible...

or, you could just post a list of realists/non-believers and that would take up the whole thread.

It's not about the numbers... It's about countering the notion that Science has always had a rift with GOD... when many of the pioneers of Science felt otherwise...

Like I said... you all are revising history because it doesn't suit your arguments...

[Phenomanul]

FIRST POST

Genesis says the Light was created FIRST. It says he separated day from night on day 1.



But wait a second, day and night is only a product of the rotation of the earth. The Sun never stops shining.

So, if the Earth isn't formed yet until DAY 3, then when "God" created light (Sun isn't even created yet, so what light is Genesis referring to?), how could he possibly create day and night? The Sun, in space, never stops shining. "Days" are an illusion of earth's rotation.

then Genesis is proven to have a lack of understanding about the universe, in accordance with human knowledge at the time.

========================

========================

SECOND POST

Next we have................

"God" creates the Earth and puts VEGETATION on it on the third day...... but doesn't create the SUN until the FOURTH DAY!

Laugh out loud!

This creates huge problems :

1) Vegetation functions on photosynthesis. Need the sun to live. That's their energy source.

2) If you listen to the Bible, the Earth would now be OLDER than the Sun?

3) All the Stars in the sky are now younger than the Earth too!


Anyone care to take this on? This proves the Bible is already wrong in the first few chapters.

So.... you are countering the supernatural Biblical account by constraining it with naturalistic limitations? Good logic... I mean, should we assume that the GOD that created the universe is also bound by the rules He created to govern it??? That someone that defined the speed of light, is also constrained to operate within it's limits??? Not likely... GOD created the mass of the universe from nothing but the command of His voice... ooops... there goes "mass can neither be created or destroyed"...

Now... by no means am I saying you should believe the Genesis account... Believe what you want... I'm simply stating that your naturalistic arguments are inherently null, mismatched if you will, against a supernatural account of creation.

[angel_luv]

So.... you are countering the supernatural Biblical account by constraining it with naturalistic limitations? Good logic... I mean, should we assume that the GOD that created the universe is also bound by the rules He created to govern it??? That someone that defined the speed of light, is also constrained to operate within it's limits??? Not likely... GOD created the mass of the universe from nothing but the command of His voice...

Now... by no means am I saying you should believe the Genesis account... Believe what you want... I'm simply stating that your naturalistic arguments are inherently null, mismatched if you will, against a supernatural account of creation.

Well said. Thank you.

[Mike Litoris]

Reading through this, it looks like people are giving each other a real tongue lashing.

[baseline bum]

My point of contention still stands...

As for your reproach of my comment.... I only paraphrased what Newton himself wrote on many occasions.

That's not at all what you said. Never in that final clause bound to the word "laws" did you express it as Newton's belief. I don't believe that's what you meant when that meaning you're now claiming could have easily and unambiguously been expressed by a simple addition of "he believed" before the word could.

It was Newton's belief in GOD that compeled him to seek out the ordered mechanisms and laws that could only be produced by His hand...

For all the grief you give people for having no proof of the non-existence of god, you shouldn't be making statements like the above that are little more than conjecture.

[ALVAREZ6]

The truth is that many of the scientific pioneers that shaped our western civilization believed in GOD.

just like essentially the entire population of the world at that time

[z0sa]

For all the grief you give people for having no proof of the non-existence of god, you shouldn't be making statements like the above that are little more than conjecture.

Do you really know much about Newton's other writings, or did you simply pass them off because they are theological in nature and you are an atheist?

I ask only because its fairly obvious to the informed that Newton's own claims of inspiration were almost always, God. Considering only the amount of material he wrote on theology should give you a good grasp on how important God was to him and in his interpretations.

are you an old man or is 106 years old in your profile just a joke?
did newton base all his research on his obvious theological impressions, or some "other" reasoning since making a clear inference from his religious works is what you consider conjecture?

[E20]

I'm not sure where or who I heard this from, but I remember someone telling me that Netwon was crazy and that Calculus was his way of commuincating with God.

I lol'd.

[Phenomanul]

That's not at all what you said. Never in that final clause bound to the word "laws" did you express it as Newton's belief. I don't believe that's what you meant when that meaning you're now claiming could have easily and unambiguously been expressed by a simple addition of "he believed" before the word could.



For all the grief you give people for having no proof of the non-existence of god, you shouldn't be making statements like the above that are little more than conjecture.

OK... OK... "that he believed"... contento?

It's not like I'm trying to be ambiguous... Newton believed that... and it propeled him to achieve what no one else could...

Suggesting then that his achievements had nothing to do with his theistic believes would be a downright lie... and a disservice to the Christian ideals that inspired his work.

[Phenomanul]

just like essentially the entire population of the world at that time

So are you suggesting that Newton was incapable of experiencing GOD just because he happened to live hundreds of years ago???

Fact is, Newton genuinenly experienced GOD... and never looked back. He could have said, "nah.. belief in this en y is baloney, what's the big deal??" or whatever the common jargon was back then... but he didn't: he stood firmly by his beliefs.

[ALVAREZ6]

So are you suggesting that Newton was incapable of experiencing GOD just because he happened to live hundreds of years ago???

No. I'm suggesting virtually everyone back then believed in god.

And I love how you say newton experienced god as a certainty....back to why I can't stand religious people because they are more than 100% confident that there god exists.

[E20]

back to why I can't stand religious people because they are more than 100% confident that there god exists.

Well from my understanding that's a part of faith. If you don't have 100% full belief in God then you don't truly have faith. Why believe in something you're not 100% sure of?

[MiamiHeat]

Still waiting.

1) How can the stars be YOUNGER than the Earth? This is false.

2) How can vegetation on land exist without the Sun?

3) How can the Earth be older than the Sun?

4) How can there be day and night when the Earth wasn't created yet?

and here's another one :

And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

What? Water, then sky, then water above the sky?

This is a primitive explanation for rain.

We know for a fact there is no large expanse of water above the sky. There is atmopshere (sky), then there is outer space.

[MiamiHeat]

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning, God created the heaven and the EARTH.

How did you conclude that earth was not created first?

Because the Earth isn't created until day 3.

The earth is 'without form' until day 3.

So if the earth is not round, it cannot rotate. therefore, no days and nights.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Because the Earth isn't created until day 3.

The earth is 'without form' until day 3.

So if the earth is not round, it cannot rotate. therefore, no days and nights.

No...it was created on day 1, and given form on day 3.


So only round things rotate? Get a Rubiks cube and spin it....tell me if it's rotating.

[MiamiHeat]

No...it was created on day 1, and given form on day 3.


So only round things rotate? Get a Rubiks cube and spin it....tell me if it's rotating.

a cube is formed

the earth is 'without form'

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Formless.

By the way, the Bible refers to the Earth as having 'four corners'

Like most everyone else, they thought the Earth was flat.

[I Love Me Some Me]

a cube is formed

the earth is 'without form'

Ok...first it couldn't rotate because it wasn't round, now it's because it's without form?

And why does something need form to rotate? The clouds in a tornado or hurricane are without form, but are certainly rotating.

[MiamiHeat]

Ok...first it couldn't rotate because it wasn't round, now it's because it's without form?

And why does something need form to rotate? The clouds in a tornado or hurricane are without form, but are certainly rotating.

This is seriously one of the most horrible attempts I have ever seen in my life.

They wouldn't be hurricanes or tornado's if they didn't -form-.... oh boy.

[I Love Me Some Me]

This is seriously one of the most horrible attempts I have ever seen in my life.

Then it should be easy for you.


Unless, of course, you want to move the target again...first the earth was the third day, then it was the first day but it wasn't round, then it didn't have to be round, it had to have form.

[MiamiHeat]

.first the earth was the third day,

The Earth is not the Earth until it forms. Until then, it's something else. Otherwise, it's like you going around with a box of nails and lots of wood and claiming it's a house.

then it was the first day but it wasn't round

You, not me, YOU said it was the first day. I corrected you by telling you that the Earth was not formed yet.

then it didn't have to be round, it had to have form.

Hey, you said 'round things aren't the only things that rotate'

That would imply the Earth had another shape. But the Earth is -without form-... so how can something that doesn't exist yet, has no shape or form, rotate?



Someone please help I Love Me Some Me. He needs help very badly

[I Love Me Some Me]

1. The Earth is not the Earth until it forms. Until then, it's something else. Otherwise, it's like you going around with a box of nails and lots of wood and claiming it's a house.




2. You, not me, YOU said it was the first day. I corrected you by telling you that the Earth was not formed yet.




3. Hey, you said 'round things aren't the only things that rotate'

That would imply the Earth had another shape. But the Earth is -without form-... so how can something that doesn't exist yet, has no shape or form, rotate?



4. Someone please help I Love Me Some Me. He needs help very badly

1. The earth is the earth when whoever created it calls it "earth"...which happened on day 1.

2. No, Genesis tells you the earth was created on the first day, in Chapter 1, verse 1.

3. So you're contention is that something must have shape and form to rotate?

4. Yes, I do.

[MiamiHeat]

1. The earth is the earth when whoever created it calls it "earth"...which happened on day 1.

2. No, Genesis tells you the earth was created on the first day, in Chapter 1, verse 1.

3. So you're contention is that something must have shape and form to rotate?

4. Yes, I do.

oh my gawd

is anyoen else reading his responses?

[Phenomanul]

No. I'm suggesting virtually everyone back then believed in god.

And I love how you say newton experienced god as a certainty....back to why I can't stand religious people because they are more than 100% confident that there god exists.

Why then would Newton pen down his belief in a Creator with so much conviction if he didn't actually buy into his own beliefs??? Was he lying to everyone else? To himself?

Truth is, his theological works spoke volumes about his life...

[ALVAREZ6]

Why then would Newton pen down his belief in a Creator with so much conviction if he didn't actually buy into his own beliefs??? Was he lying to everyone else? To himself?

Truth is, his theological works spoke volumes about his life...

Religious thinking is a completely different type of thought than concrete things like physics, math, and science. The former is literally a huge gray area, everyone claims they know stuff but in reality nothing is ing certain. The latter are concrete, testable areas. But people can vary so far in their thoughts on religion, you can be the most accomplished man in the world and still believe some crazy .

[Phenomanul]

Religious thinking is a completely different type of thought than concrete things like physics, math, and science. The former is literally a huge gray area, everyone claims they know stuff but in reality nothing is ing certain. The latter are concrete, testable areas. But people can vary so far in their thoughts on religion, you can be the most accomplished man in the world and still believe some crazy .

So do you still believe that Christianity held back the scientific movement??? Or are you at least willing to concede that it compeled some of history's brightest minds to enlighten the rest of humanity???