Spurs To Retire Avery Johnson's Number 6

[picnroll]

Still wqiting for timvp's explanation of Pop giving Manu Avery's number and acknowledging that Avery had worn it before. Was Holt on a druken binge while that was happening.

DRob supporting Avery's number being retired? , DRob is such a nice guy he'd support Zarbo's number being retired because his basketball career was tragically cut short by smoking and drinking.

[sandman]

Still wqiting for timvp's explanation of Pop giving Manu Avery's number and acknowledging that Avery had worn it before. Was Holt on a druken binge while that was happening.

DRob supporting Avery's number being retired? , DRob is such a nice guy he'd support Zarbo's number being retired because his basketball career was tragically cut short by smoking and drinking.

Heck, he would probably support Alfrederick Hughes' number being retired, because his basketball career was tragically cut short by a severe case of no talent.

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs, by raising AJ's number to the rafters, acknowledge their place as a minor franchise which by some fluke has won a bunch of NBA les, rather than as one of the great NBA franchises, whose four les are a collection exceeded only by those of three other teams. They choose to identify themselves with the Portlands and Dallases of the NBA.

I don't think the Lakers are going to retire Derek Fisher's number, nor the Celtics Danny Ainge's, nor the Bulls John Paxson's. But that's understandable, because those are great franchises in relevant major cities, with citizens who don't get all googly-eyed because a short, plucky, average point guard reminds them of their short, plucky, average selves.

Maybe someday San Antonio can be as discerning as the sprawling world metropolis of Green Bay, whose Packers have twenty-six players in the Hall of Fame and five retired numbers.

[picnroll]

How about raising 6*

Rule of thumb, any player that 20 years from now you have to try to explain to you grandkids who they were and why they had their number retired and it leaves them with a puzzled look on their face skip it.

[smeagol]

The Spurs, by raising AJ's number to the rafters, acknowledge their place as a minor franchise which by some fluke has won a bunch of NBA les, rather than as one of the great NBA franchises, whose four les are a collection exceeded only by those of three other teams. They choose to identify themselves with the Portlands and Dallases of the NBA.

I don't think the Lakers are going to retire Derek Fisher's number, nor the Celtics Danny Ainge's, nor the Bulls John Paxson's. But that's understandable, because those are great franchises in relevant major cities, with citizens who don't get all googly-eyed because a short, plucky, average point guard reminds them of their short, plucky, average selves.

Maybe someday San Antonio can be as discerning as the sprawling world metropolis of Green Bay, whose Packers have twenty-six players in the Hall of Fame and five retired numbers.

Ouch!

That nasty hurt even me

[SRJ]

The Spurs, by raising AJ's number to the rafters, acknowledge their place as a minor franchise which by some fluke has won a bunch of NBA les, rather than as one of the great NBA franchises, whose four les are a collection exceeded only by those of three other teams. They choose to identify themselves with the Portlands and Dallases of the NBA.

I think the actual winning of the les is more of an identifier than the retired jerseys. Most people across the nation know about the four championships; few know about James Silas.

I don't think the Lakers are going to retire Derek Fisher's number, nor the Celtics Danny Ainge's, nor the Bulls John Paxson's. But that's understandable, because those are great franchises in relevant major cities, with citizens who don't get all googly-eyed because a short, plucky, average point guard reminds them of their short, plucky, average selves.

You would do better not to include the Celtics on that list, unless Don Nelson was a better player than the record suggests. Plus, it is obvious that this jersey retirement isn't reflective of the fans wishes.

Maybe someday San Antonio can be as discerning as the sprawling world metropolis of Green Bay, whose Packers have twenty-six players in the Hall of Fame and five retired numbers.

You can't retire jerseys as easily in football, since a basketball roster is 12-15 and a football roster is 40-50.

[Extra Stout]

You would do better not to include the Celtics on that list, unless Don Nelson was a better player than the record suggests. Plus, it is obvious that this jersey retirement isn't reflective of the fans wishes.

You actually just compared Avery freaking Johnson with a guy who was one of the greatest sixth men ever, whose stats look eerily like those of Manu Ginobili.

I think you just lost.

And the fans' wishes for Avery Johnson's number to be retired is reflective of their being a bunch of small-time rubes.

You can't retire jerseys as easily in football, since a basketball roster is 12-15 and a football roster is 40-50.

The Dallas Cowboys have seventeen players in their Ring of Honor (though their numbers are not officially retired). I notice, though, that they haven't honored Daryl Johnston. But he was a fan favorite, right? I guess fans in Dallas don't get carried away with honor inflation like the little runt town further along I-35 does. I bet if San Antonio fans were in charge, Chad freaking Henning would be in the Ring of Honor.

[SRJ]

You actually just compared Avery freaking Johnson with a guy who was one of the greatest sixth men ever, whose stats look eerily like those of Manu Ginobili.

Well, at least you're not overstating things at all. This is literally the first time I have ever heard the phrase "one of the best sixth men ever" in connection with the name "Don Nelson". Frank Ramsey? Sure. John Havlicek? No doubt. Don Nelson was a pretty good scorer off the bench - the Scott Wedman of his time.

And the fans' wishes for Avery Johnson's number to be retired is reflective of their being a bunch of small-time rubes.

Generalize much?

[SRJ]

Another thing, Extra Stout - since when do you care about how this looks from the outside? When Phoenix fans came in with their ratings smack and their asterisks smack, you could not have cared less how it looked. Now all of a sudden, you're worried about a possible podunk factor. Why is that? What's the difference?

[picnroll]

Well, at least you're not overstating things at all. This is literally the first time I have ever heard the phrase "one of the best sixth men ever" in connection with the name "Don Nelson". Frank Ramsey? Sure. John Havlicek? No doubt. Don Nelson was a pretty good scorer off the bench - the Scott Wedman of his time.

Obviously a guy who doesn't have the NBA Classics channel.

[sandman]

Well, at least you're not overstating things at all. This is literally the first time I have ever heard the phrase "one of the best sixth men ever" in connection with the name "Don Nelson". Frank Ramsey? Sure. John Havlicek? No doubt. Don Nelson was a pretty good scorer off the bench - the Scott Wedman of his time.

Per nba.com:

In 11 seasons with the Celtics, he was a member of five NBA Championship teams (1966, 1968, 1969, 1974 and 1976). His retired uniform #19, honoring his career as one of the game’s greatest “sixth men” was raised to the Boston Garden rafters in 1978.

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/don_nelson/

Not that the NBA or the Celtics know what they are talking about...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

, I wouldn't mind the Spurs retiring #19 for Don Nelson after what he did to the Mavs last year.

[sandman]

, I wouldn't mind the Spurs retiring #19 for Don Nelson after what he did to the Mavs last year.

, that contributed to a championship run as much as AJ's heart/guts/drive/passion/drawl

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

, that contributed to a championship run as much as AJ's heart/guts/drive/passion/drawl

Contributions schmontributions, I thought it was just entertaining.

[sandman]

Contributions schmontributions, I thought it was just entertaining.

I won't lie; I watched for the train wreck called the Mavs more than I did for the entertaining style of the Warriors.

[timvp]

Dude, you seem to be in the minority on this one.

And?

In case you haven't noticed throughout the years, timvp usually goes out on a limb and is oftentimes in the minority. Yet when someone like whottt gets mad and me and looks over years and years of posts to try to find something I was wrong about, he struggles to do so.

I've been defending AJ against other Spurs fans for like 15 years. You don't think I'm used to all this? Spurs fans wanted a newer and better point guard every year. They said he wasn't a championship level point guard.

I've always said he was. And back then, that take put me in an even smaller minority than you see today. But believe won.

Seriously, how hard is it to not like the head coach of an arch rival team? How easy is it to forget the first championship after winning three more les? It's not like AJ haters are breaking new ground in their dislike of him. That's taking the easy way out.

The funny thing is that the 1999 championship banner already tells me I was right all those years. #6 will just be more confirmation.

[timvp]

Still wqiting for timvp's explanation of Pop giving Manu Avery's number and acknowledging that Avery had worn it before. Was Holt on a druken binge while that was happening.

Explanation? When did you ask for one?

Pop had high hopes for Manu so giving him AJ's number was sign of respect. He didn't say "Here Manu, try to make something out of this number because the previous owner didn't."

But if you really think Don freakin' Harris strong armed Pop into retiring AJ's number, that's an even worse take than the time you said Beno was the best defensive guard on the team.

I'm still waiting for the explanation on that take

[smeagol]

And?

I'm just stating a fact which we agree on. If you polled the ST posters and based the #6 jersey retirement on the poll results, there would still be 5 retired jerseys up in the rafters after December 22nd.

Seriously, how hard is it to not like the head coach of an arch rival team?

To be fair, whottt has been hating on AJ well before he became the Mavs head coach.

How easy is it to forget the first championship after winning three more les?

I don't think this is the reason why most posters don't want AJ's jersey retired.

[picnroll]

Explanation? When did you ask for one?

Pop had high hopes for Manu so giving him AJ's number was sign of respect. He didn't say "Here Manu, try to make something out of this number because the previous owner didn't."

But if you really think Don freakin' Harris strong armed Pop into retiring AJ's number, that's an even worse take than the time you said Beno was the best defensive guard on the team.

I'm still waiting for the explanation on that take

Pop obviously had no intention of pushing for retiring Avery's number if he was willing to hand it to Manu. You can slip and slide and squirm and emoticom away but you can't wiggle out of it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Explanation? When did you ask for one?

Pop had high hopes for Manu so giving him AJ's number was sign of respect. He didn't say "Here Manu, try to make something out of this number because the previous owner didn't."

But if you really think Don freakin' Harris strong armed Pop into retiring AJ's number, that's an even worse take than the time you said Beno was the best defensive guard on the team.

I'm still waiting for the explanation on that take

There is two sides to that. It was also a sign of disrespect to Johnson.

And retiring his jersey just cheapens the whole thing. Im waiting for 2! to go up now.

[sandman]

Pop obviously had no intention of pushing for retiring Avery's number if he was willing to hand it to Manu. You can slip and slide and squirm and emoticom away but you can't wiggle out of it.

Rebutting the Don Harris influence angle still doesn't explain why Pop was so willing to give away a number that he now feels needs to be retired. I would still like to understand timvp's take on that whole situation. They knowingly gave away AJ's number, then rescinded it. That's a do ented fact. I would just like to know why.

[sandman]

There is two sides to that. It was also a sign of disrespect to Johnson.

And retiring his jersey just cheapens the whole thing. Im waiting for 2! to go up now.

, 2! is in the Mascot HoF. That should be a mortal lock to be in the rafters...

[timvp]

The Spurs, by raising AJ's number to the rafters, acknowledge their place as a minor franchise which by some fluke has won a bunch of NBA les, rather than as one of the great NBA franchises, whose four les are a collection exceeded only by those of three other teams. They choose to identify themselves with the Portlands and Dallases of the NBA.

Actually, it's the opposite. The small-mindedness of Spurs fans keeps them from actually thinking their players are deserving of recognition. The Spurs have four NBA championships. AJ will be their sixth retired number. That's a pretty damn impressive ratio.

Compare it to other teams:

Atlanta - 1 championship, 3 retired players
Cleveland - 0 championships, 6 retired players
Dallas - 0 championships, 2 retired players
Denver - 0 championships, 5 retired players
Detroit - 2 championships, 7 retired players
Indiana - 0 championships, 4 retired players
Milwaukee - 1 championship, 7 retired players
New Jersey - 0 championships, 6 retired players
New Orleans - 0 championships, 2 retired players
New York - 2 championships, 9 retired players
Philadelphia - 2 championships, 7 retired players
Phoenix - 0 championships, 9 retired players
Portland - 1 championship, 9 retired players
Sacramento - 1 () championship, 8 retired players
Seattle - 1 championship, 5 retired players
Utah - 0 championships, 6 retired players

Small-minded San Antonians think they aren't deserving of anything. The Spurs have four freakin' championships. Retiring six numbers is hardly a drop in the bucket compared to virtually every other team in the NBA.

It's amazing to me that San Antonio can't realize its a basketball power now. It's okay for the Spurs to spread their wings. No one is going to be offended.

San Antonio is no longer that cow town that you pass through on your trip to Mexico.

I don't think the Lakers are going to retire Derek Fisher's number, nor the Celtics Danny Ainge's, nor the Bulls John Paxson's. But that's understandable, because those are great franchises in relevant major cities, with citizens who don't get all googly-eyed because a short, plucky, average point guard reminds them of their short, plucky, average selves.

Uh, which of those guys helped the franchise win their first championship? Which of those guys was the on the court and off the court leader during their first run?

The Spurs aren't going to retire Brent Barry's number or any other role player after the first le. But that's because the foundation was set. The trail was blazed. Now the Spurs know exactly what it takes to win it all.

Once upon a time, that wasn't the case.

Maybe someday San Antonio can be as discerning as the sprawling world metropolis of Green Bay, whose Packers have twenty-six players in the Hall of Fame and five retired numbers.

Let's try to keep it within the sport.

Spurs will have six retired players and four championships. A team like the Suns has never done anything, yet no one has a problem with them have nine retired players.

Think big, San Antonio. Think big.

[timvp]

Pop obviously had no intention of pushing for retiring Avery's number if he was willing to hand it to Manu. You can slip and slide and squirm and emoticom away but you can't wiggle out of it.

So you are stating that Don Harris strong armed Pop into retiring AJ's number? Is that your take?

And is Beno still the best defensive guard on the team?

Thank you.

[smeagol]

timvp, the ratio of 5 retired jerseys to 4 championships means nothing because 3 of those 4 championships were won in the last 4 years. Most of the players who made those championships a reality are still playing.

Not sure how that statement helps your cause.