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Wouldn't put it past him, but, agreed.
Yeah Tolliver really needs to add strength. He has done a really good job of losing all that baby fat he was carrying around during college and during most of last year. Now he needs to build back up his body with muscle.
Right now he gets pushed around way too easily inside. Like a lot of basketball players who lose weight, they struggle for a while adjusting to not having the weight they used to have to hold their position. During preseason, Tolliver has been pushed around by just about every halfway decent big.
If he can add strength and become a 35%+ three-point shooter, the Spurs may have something. But those two aspects are far from given at this point.
The thing I dislike most about Tolliver is he is a waste to send to Austin. What is a perimeter shooting big going to do in the D-League? I guess he can work on his defense but with how small that league is, he won't be able to learn much on that end either. So if he's not on the active roster, he's pretty much a waste.
It's tough to say. History tells me the Spurs usually err to the side of draft picks. But I've heard Pop say the word "scoring" a lot this training camp so Farmer could make it on his ability to score alone.
I heard Brett Brown in a recent interview say that the coaches see Farmer as potentially a helpful player in terms of surviving while Manu is out. Perhaps the Spurs will keep Farmer, send Hairston to Austin, hope Hairston doesn't get gobbled up by an NBA team and then waiver Farmer and bring back Hairston once Manu comes back healthy.
Wouldn't put it past him, but, agreed.
And when that team calls, I say sign Tolliver up.
Personally, I don't want the Spurs to jepoardize long-term value for short-term scoring. I like Farmer too and he is a good find, but not at the expense of Hairston. If the Spurs will risk losing out on Hairston to another club by sending him to Austin, they shouldn't take the chance.
I agree that he won't learn much in Austin, but if he can go to there while they bulk him up, I'd rather have that any day of the week than risk losing one of these guys. If someone doesn't pan out, or if they can find a way to trade off some dead weight, he can step right in. I don't like the idea of losing Tolliver, but I dislike it less than any alternative I can think of right now.
Yeah, Pop gets with these ideas that there's something more to winning basketball than defense, and it scares the bejeezus out of me. If Tolliver were a better defender I'd be much less concerned about it. I was hoping that Pop would err on the side of the draft pick just because he needs a win in that department, but his job security obviously isn't even on his radar.
If Splitter was here then the Spurs would have two shooting bigs playing musical chairs playing with IR, since Ian/Splitter/Fab/KT/Tim take up all the minutes, and the shooting bigs would just be chilling in suits. Except Splitter didn't happen, and Ian won't for a couple weeks at least, so Tolliver is lucky. ing Bonner, why couldn't he just prove himself last year, so Farmer AND Hairston could make it, instead of losing one.
Let me put it this way: Out of Hairston and Farmer, which one do you think will be more likely to bite the Spurs in the ass if they're cut?
I see no reason why the Spurs shouldn't try to move Vaughn or buy him out if they are really conflicted between fitting Tolliver, Farmer, and Hairston into 2 spots.
I think Vaughn is obsolete at this point. Hill as is right now is probably on par with what Vaughn brings offensively but with a much better NBA body and a much better defender at the point. You can say Pop wants to have a veteran, but he did turn over a championship level team to a 19 yr old French kid not too long ago. I dont think giving the back up point to a rook would be that big of a deal.
The other thing Vaughn brings is leadership, but honestly if TD, Parker, Manu, Bowen, and even Finley can't provide leadership to these young guys then Vaughn won't make a difference in that regard either.
I like the intangibles of toughness and clutch killer instinct that Farmer has shown flashes of at this point. To me that is something that he could hang his hat on, and there is always a need for a guy like that who can score the ball. I'd give him a spot right now just on the prospect that he could be that clutch guy who can fill it up.
Hairston is good but doesnt have anything that shows he could be an impact player who can provide at least one thing to make him a difference maker. I think you can find another hairston in the 2nd round next draft.
i haven't been able to watch hairston play during the preseason but from what i saw during summer league, nothing stands out about him. is he even worth keeping? he doesn't put up as many points as farmer and seems to be very passive.
Hairston is a GOOD defender. He's got long arms, an NBA body and he's very crafty on both ends of the floor. As I said before he plays bigger than his size and he's not intimidated by anyone, as evidenced by his challenging Pechirov (7') when he was going really hard for a dunk. He's also a good ball handler and a good passer. He's played as well as any of the new guys to this point, and better than a couple of old guys. I'm not sure how much he gives up in size to Bowen, but he might make up for it with athletic ability.
If Splitter were here the Spurs probably wouldn't have signed KT.
True, I thought that but neglected to mention it when I posted. , Hairston almost had an alley-oop dunk from Farmer, which he had range to make it easy to pick him. What do you think of Farmer when you see him on D?
Good question. I was thinking about going back and rewatching the game just to see specifically how he did. The Wizards had one of those nights where every piece of garbage they put up went in, regardless of whether it was well-defended, but you can see if he's getting killed or not, which is all I want to know. Pop was running some strange lineups out there, so it's hard to judge how well someone knows the system.
At worst, I think he's a better defender than Finley, and should be able to score as many points with the same number of shots.
The most blatant issue regarding Farmer's D is he's slow to get back in transition defense at times. That's not a very good trait for a guard in Pop's system . . .
If he's going to make a habit of that, now's the best time to make it known.
all good points why it would be a HUGE mistake to pick Farmer over Hairston, even if it seems the more logical choice right at the moment.
yes, Spurs need scoring, but they also need youth and athleticism. Hairston doesn't make the impression of a great athlete at first sight (maybe his teddy bear look?), but in fact he is a very good athlete. likely the best athlete on the roster. for sure the best leaper. that's what will enable him to also play SF, even if he doesn't have perfect size for that. his strength will allow him to defend most SFs and he's quick enough for most guards. yes, we need scoring, but it's not that the defensive department is that well occupied with an aging Bowen and Udoka, who is to slow for many opponents.
talking about Udoka: I don't see it as a given thing that he will be re signed 2009 and this might be the best point for keeping Hairston, who has all qualities to take Udoka's role (plus a much higher upside).
if Udoka looks for more than 1 year (of course he will) he would cut into the Spurs cap space 2010. Hairston has a very cheap 2 years min. contract, that would expire 2010. if he does well, great. if not, Spurs have saved all their options for the FA market.
one last point: Hairston would cost the Spurs 350 K less than Farmer. also considering that they just burned 200 K for Salim, this might be a good reason.
I've watched the first half and I'm quite worried about Spurs.
I know it's a preseason game but there are things that are obvious even in this king of meaningless games.
Spurs main weaknesses are that nobody is able to create on the offensive end outside the big three and the lack of answer against mobile PF. This year these two weaknesses looked to be bigger than ever.
I usually have trouble gathering all my thoughts immediately after a game. Now that we are in the day after here's my thoughts on our situation:
Tolliver - I concur with all that are concerned about his shooting, but what's the alternative? Anybody with working vision can see that Bonner needs to be on the bench or gone and as timvp said Hairston is too small to play bigger bigs. That leaves Duncan, KT, Oberto and Ian in the bigger positions of front line....and Ian is still up in the air because we have seen nothing from him in the preseason. We are going to be WAY too small if we let him go...or we will have to deal with big doses of Bonner. I am not willing accept either. I also think him being a good rebounder is being undercut here. Are we so quick to forget all those games where Duncan was on the bench and we could not get a board to save our lives? TBQH, he is not so bad if we are looking at our situation objectively and taking everything into consideration.
Hairston - I really like him and want him on this team. He is perfect for our system in that he plays D, is athletic and can be a swing or a small forward. He is not ready from a skills standpoint yet...but I like his upside so much I would be willing to sign him and develop him on the Toros. I know we all want to win now, but we are at a point in the TD/TP/Manu era where serious decisions have to be made regarding the future of this team and what players will carry the torch. There has to be some sort of plan in place that doesn't involve throwing all our chips in on the year 2010.
Farmer - Everyone that has said it is right...this kid is a straight up bad ass. He really looks like he could develop into one of those players who comes in off the bench late and sticks the other team in the stomach with a dagger. He doesn't hustle like he could or play good man defense, but I think some time around our vets that do could possibly change that enough to make him an asset. But looking at the whole situation I can't with good conscience pick him over Hairston for reasons I stated above. That being said, I am worried about him being a space casualty...unless we can somehow shed one of our other undesirables that is under contract. Because of the position he plays I think that person would have to be Vaughn, but I have a feeling Pop is not going to do that. I want him, but its looking more and more like he is going to be the odd man out.
Yes. And he's more athletic. He hasn't been the most impressive guy in camp, but I increasingly see what the Spurs see in him. He must be one of a practice player.
There are probably other factors--for example, I'll bet he's a really top-notch guy, professional, and hard working.
Sign Desmon Farmer Its A No Brainer. Is Anyone Else Watching These Games. He's Been Destroying Just Like He's Done On Any Other Team Hes Been On.
Strange, Bruno. I really like the mix of players the Spurs have, and I think their offense will be fine.
I agree about the mobile 4s, though. The Spurs best bet is Udoka, but that's not his strong suit. Splitter would have been ideal.
All of which make a legitimate case for them keeping Hairston. The Spurs are long overdue in filling this need and they must develop this position - NOW. They cannot keep repeatedly going back in the draft looking for yet another swingman. They've taken fliers on several guys, in the past fre years, with no success. Now that they have a guy, in Hairston, that looks promising, they would be foolish and stupid to cut him loose and allow another team to develop him. Besides if they do that, what was the point of making the trade with PHX?
To get a good pick and money.
True, but the mistake is not taking both of them and cutting Tolliver. Hairston does a better job of covering big and small guys than Tolliver does. Hairston also appears to be a better rebounder, so the two inches he gives up in height is negated. Tolliver has an 11 foot wingspan, but it doesn't mean much if he doesn't have his hands up when he's defending and can't get into position for a rebound. Tolliver did indeed hustle a little bit when he came in the second time in the fourth quarter, enough to pad his rebounding numbers and to break up some long passes when he was getting outrun down the floor, but I'm not so sure why anyone is so in love with that to waste a roster spot on him over it.
I noticed in last night's game, Farmer was closest to the play on the only two fast break opportunities that happened while he was in. His individual defense isn't bad, and the only mistakes I saw him make were rotations and team stuff, which isn't unexpected.
Why worry about trading Bonner to make room for all 3 when one of those 3 is similar to Bonner? Just don't sign Tolliver. His contract wasn't fully guaranteed for a reason; in case the FO would rather go in a different direction.
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