Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[MultiTroll]

Coddle?
Who asked to be coddled? Certainly not Dejounte.

The over reverence to Chrissy Paul is a bit nauseating too.
Regular season Chrissy? Fine. Control freak playoff Chrissy.
Ya Pop he really needs another control freak.

I'd say study tape of Steve Nash.
Jesus.

[Chinook]

The answer he gave was prompted. Reporters were fishing for a soundbite. That's why I mentioned it maybe he's not analyzing a goddamn thing but if they ask you... well what are you going to say if you are a 20 year old rook? that Pop is top notch... bc nothing else he would say frankly would be fine except for that... That is why I said the chuckle gave it away.

Kawhi can inspire guys not even in the Spurs. I think Winslow in Miami mentioned him as an inspiration bc himself, he is a wing with size that came into the league with mostly defensive upside. Aaron Gordon? The same. Not everyone can be Kawhi but it is a testament to Kawhi that younger players than him coming into the league look at his improvement for inspiration. If anything that is one of the most remarkable things in basketball lately, that he has been able to absorb and improve every season to that degree. (Something Pop mentioned seasons ago.. his statement about Kawhi's ability to learn being special that I cited was made after Kawhi's 2nd or 3rd season I believe. You could see his improvement then but he was not yet this guy putting up 30 + points a night when his team needs them)....

Kawhi is just an aspiration to be great... and that you don't have to be drafted no. 1 to be the top player in the league if anything. Murray actually also mentioned Tony early in the summer as an inspiration and looks up to him (actually in that same statement in that article that he mentioned Chris Paul as a guy to model his game, but he actually mentioned Tony first). The Tony hater will scowl... but Murray is learning from Tony.

I don't see anything poor with his statements. Again, we are not seeing the tough coaching this season bc he's barely playing and to a degree Pop has to watch him play first to then correct and suggest, and fix things. Maybe behind closed doors he gets all the coaching, but right now he plays so little it's hard to tell much and they also have to let him make those mistakes to then show him film and point out things. Whether he can learn or not we don't know, that is what separates the greats from the roleplayer. Pop mentioned showing him Chris Paul but also recognized that Murray has to be himself. What he is.. heck Pop didn't know... he didn't even look like a pure PG and sometimes still doesn't look it.

We could say they are getting acquainted, which is different than getting a rook like Davis who came into the league with a game fully formed and forged in Europe, that I think Pop wants to expand. Heck Pop still doesn't know what to do with Anderson if we are honest. And then there is the old adage: that it's the players themselves who tell you and show you what they are. Murray's time is likely to come next season for better or worse.

We could say they twiddled thumbs with him his rook season. If he's not playing there is not that much to see him get struggle with.

The problem isn't looking up to Kawhi (obviously) or saying whatever to the camera. It comes down to player expectations. The Spurs in general and Pop in particular have a reputation for turning crap into gold or in the very least amplifying talent. Austin Daye screamed into a pillow because he thought he'd be the next Danny Green and become an everyday NBA player after being a fringe guy. Obviously, it wasn't a waste of time for him, but he's overseas now because he learned that Pop isn't a miracle worker. Green didn't succeed because Pop or RC or Chip made him. He's the one who begged for second chance. He's the one who left his overseas team and spent the rest of the lockout working on role-player skills so he could hang onto his spot. To a significantly greater extent, Leonard was the one in the gym, watching film, turning down the USANT to make sure his body was right. He's the one with the natural talent that made him at worst a viable role-player. PATFOACS guided them, but he didn't make them.

I don't think a lot of players, league people or fans REALLY get that. , you had that dude say Kawhi would be at best Otto Porter without Pop. I think Daye believed that. I think the guys who took MKG, RHJ and Winslow believed that. Does Murray? I don't know. I'd like to think not. I have little reason to assume he does. But it's all about framing. Does he think he gets benched because he's young and hasn't paid his dues? Or does he realize that he's benched because he's making mistakes and that he won't not be benched until he stops making those mistakes? Does he know that he's not waiting out Patty and Tony and that he's going to actually have to earn his spot? Even if Patty moves on, the Spurs are very likely to try to bring in another guard. That may be a min dude, or it may be a guy like Teodosic (probably not). We don't know.

With people even in the organization saying he has star potential, can Murray actually "get over himself"? Does Embiid have to get over himself? Nope. Does Ben Simmons? Probably not. It's not even about it being Murray's "fault". There's just a lot that can come up, lots of voices in his head. Having an agent like Rich Paul may well hurt him. Then you factor in that stars really don't have to get over themselves and really can't get over themselves if they are to be true stars in the first place. There's a fine line between being a team player and being selfish enough to lead a team. Kawhi's still trying to figure that out himself, as is even LMA. Jimmy Butler doesn't know how.

Lot to unpack, even if the media is just creating soundbites. Murray's development may be the key to the Spurs being contenders after next season. Definitely worth wondering about how he's taking all of this.

[SpursforSix]

The problem isn't looking up to Kawhi (obviously) or saying whatever to the camera. It comes down to player expectations. The Spurs in general and Pop in particular have a reputation for turning crap into gold or in the very least amplifying talent. Austin Daye screamed into a pillow because he thought he'd be the next Danny Green and become an everyday NBA player after being a fringe guy. Obviously, it wasn't a waste of time for him, but he's overseas now because he learned that Pop isn't a miracle worker. Green didn't succeed because Pop or RC or Chip made him. He's the one who begged for second chance. He's the one who left his overseas team and spent the rest of the lockout working on role-player skills so he could hang onto his spot. To a significantly greater extent, Leonard was the one in the gym, watching film, turning down the USANT to make sure his body was right. He's the one with the natural talent that made him at worst a viable role-player. PATFOACS guided them, but he didn't make them.

I don't think a lot of players, league people or fans REALLY get that. , you had that dude say Kawhi would be at best Otto Porter without Pop. I think Daye believed that. I think the guys who took MKG, RHJ and Winslow believed that. Does Murray? I don't know. I'd like to think not. I have little reason to assume he does. But it's all about framing. Does he think he gets benched because he's young and hasn't paid his dues? Or does he realize that he's benched because he's making mistakes and that he won't not be benched until he stops making those mistakes? Does he know that he's not waiting out Patty and Tony and that he's going to actually have to earn his spot? Even if Patty moves on, the Spurs are very likely to try to bring in another guard. That may be a min dude, or it may be a guy like Teodosic (probably not). We don't know.

With people even in the organization saying he has star potential, can Murray actually "get over himself"? Does Embiid have to get over himself? Nope. Does Ben Simmons? Probably not. It's not even about it being Murray's "fault". There's just a lot that can come up, lots of voices in his head. Having an agent like Rich Paul may well hurt him. Then you factor in that stars really don't have to get over themselves and really can't get over themselves if they are to be true stars in the first place. There's a fine line between being a team player and being selfish enough to lead a team. Kawhi's still trying to figure that out himself, as is even LMA. Jimmy Butler doesn't know how.

Lot to unpack, even if the media is just creating soundbites. Murray's development may be the key to the Spurs being contenders after next season. Definitely worth wondering about how he's taking all of this.

This is a well thought out post.

All I'm saying is that sometimes Pop should let him make a couple of mistakes on the court and leave him out there and give him a chance to figure it out. I'm sure that Murray recognizes when he makes a mistake. At least the obvious ones. Let him play through it and see if he can learn on his own sometimes. Especially in a game that's already decided. And in some that aren't. See how he responds.

[SAGirl]

Definitely... that is why Apalisoc and a few other fans criticize the Temple of Pop (Does it have members, the media is a first row Church of Pop member I think).
He gets credited for far too much of the success of his players to the point that some doubt what Kawhi would have made of himself without Pop. I think it's a synergistic relationship, a bit of both. Both the coach coercing the best out of the player and putting him in what he thinks are the best spots and pushing, always pushing him to be the best, but it's the player who performs. And it's actually the Spurs' themselves who play for each other and look for each other to make each other better and deal with their own egos. Pop can bench somebody for selfish play but if he doesn't have the support of his guys that strategy backfires. Heck, why doesn't that work anywhere else? Bc it's really the guys own desire to be the best team and understanding what it takes that allows things like that to happen and for them to handle it.

Murray is just 20. It's on him for sure. If anything the better learning experience comes from watching Manu, Tony, Kawhi and those guys. Last season I read Green helped Anderson with his defense for example, and stayed after a workout to work with him on deficiencies... (and still guys in here argue his defense is product of the system..or doubt his work ethic)... Anyways, the only reason I cite that is that it came in from Anderson's own interest to get better to improve deficiencies and that the guy teaching him was Danny, another player, not Pop or any coach. Who better to understand where Anderson was failing and what he could do? Heck Danny also dealt with the Pop moods about defensive assignments. I like to read stories like that. In fact there is not enough asked about things of this nature and too much credit going to the Pop shrine.

Murray is in a good environment surrounded by both veterans and young players who have been there before. One of the guys who supported Anderson the most through his rook season spent in the dleague, which to the degree that he was away could make him feel like not even a part of the team, and that he was working on was really not relevant at all was.... sure enough? You won't be surprised: CoJo.

Anyways, this is just a lot of verbosity to say that they simply asked about Pop. We rarely see glimpses like the one above unless we see a tweet (which I did in Kyle's rook season back then, only reason I learned about that)... or some reporter is specific in questions about what he's doing to try to get better. I don't even recall what prompted Danny to mention he was helping Anderson with his defense, but unless a reporter asks.. those things are left unsaid. We don't know what Dijon is working on or with who. Apparently it seems like Pop has him watching videos and observing. I suspect there is more that he's doing and is likelyleft unsaid... In training camp he once mentioned he's learning from everybody and said that even from guys in his group, the third team or whatever it was could teach him things and he mentioned Forbes. The media didn't follow up with a question on what he was learning from Forbes, but I'd assume off the ball play, and specially shooting where he came in with huge deficiencies.

It's funny Pop would mention Mills too, bc off the ball play is probably something he'd like Dijon to learn too (if he's playing with both Lamarcus and Kawhi, some off the ball play is going to be present)... The media is too superficial and only looks for soundbites nowadays.

[TheDoctor]

The Tony hater will scowl... but Murray is learning from Tony...

Of course he's learning from Tony. To mother ing eat.

A weighty proposition for one Spurs rookie:

Murray admits that he has become acquainted with the local Whataburger chain...

Also from Tales of a Porky:

Tony Parker turns into such a food-driven player

What do you eat during the off-season?
I eat everything. I have no preference. I love to eat, I just eat everything.

Murray's gluttonous version:
...give me chocolate shakes, Murray said. I don’t like the other flavors, but I like the chocolate ones.

[skulls138]

Im copying what someone has already said but Tony is doing alot of assisting lately, something everybody (generalization) complained about him not doing, but he still he gets not living up to their expectations. Tony isnt what he used to be, even though people like to revise history even on that, but hes crafty and sans the Knick game, either puts up double digit scoring or leads the team in assists. Add to that our mother ing record and I get a deep sense of people taking things for granted.

Having loyalty to what got you here is not just the right thing to do but it makes sense success wise. What if you start putting Murray in and it doesnt pan out. What if hes not that great of a passer. What if he cant shoot the outside jumper and they lay off him, daring him to shoot it. "Uh Parker we're sorry, you can play now". You now have set Murrays career back and alienated Parker.

Murray has great natural talent but not cultivated in the right way can back fire and set up bad habits that are hard to correct. Hes young and wants success so bad that he'll over rely on his natural talent and a crafty vet or coach will know how to use that against him. He needs to learn to be crafty himself to go along with that talent if he wants to be special. With our record the way it is, why be desperate?

[Chinook]

It's easy to get Murray playing time without alienating Tony: Just rest Parker/Mills/Manu. Despite what some people say, he should be the principle sub for all three guys, so if you stagger their rest (the RRT would have been a perfect time for it, but there will be more opportunities), you could probably give him a handful of consecutive matches of rotation minutes without really diminishing anyone's role. If he is too good to drop then, then you think about resting Simmons and seeing if that's a permanent spot for the year. Likely, it won't be, however. Murray's going to have to be much more consistent scoring to make up for his erratic D and sloppy PG play at times. That's not an insult to him; it's just a fact about where he is right now. He just doesn't seem to have the body to play the way he needs to play to be an everyday rotation guy.

[skulls138]

Looking at Murray, he has the potential to be awesome but Pops is going to be loyal. Simmons and Anderson have both croaked the bed on games but Pops keeps giving them chances and then they come through. Thats building a trust and comfort level for everybody, even Murray, knowing when he gets his shot, hes going to be allowed to fail.

Having said that, by all means play him when you can.

[apalisoc_9]

Poopvich coached Leonard differently than any other player, there is no way Poop is going to coach anyone similar to how he coached kawhi..

The guy played significant minutes as a rookie and was way too good that they had to trade a very expensive Richard Jefferson.

Parker as a 19 year old despite his flaws, IIRC, was also more ready than this murray plus he didnt have to run that many plays with how basic that offense was.

Pop was always praiseful ( franchise player comments in kawhi sop re year) of Kawhi and Manu...

[apalisoc_9]

Looking at Murray, he has the potential to be awesome but Pops is going to be loyal. Simmons and Anderson have both croaked the bed on games but Pops keeps giving them chances and then they come through. Thats building a trust and comfort level for everybody, even Murray, knowing when he gets his shot, hes going to be allowed to fail.

Having said that, by all means play him when you can.

Loyalty is a factor but If you are good enough it wont be enough of a factor. Richard Jefferson was still here in his rookie year and Poop still had Jackson in Leonard rookie year.

Murray has tons of potential but is so erratic. I suspect the comment about watching chris paul stems from the fact that Paul is probably the most controlled PG i have ever seen my whole life

[Chinook]

Loyalty is a factor but If you are good enough it wont be enough of a factor. Richard Jefferson was still here in his rookie year and Poop still had Jackson in Leonard rookie year.

Murray has tons of potential but is so erratic. I suspect the comment about watching chris paul stems from the fact that Paul is probably the most controlled PG i have ever seen my whole life

Yeah, as I said, Murray's going to have to earn his spot in the rotation. I fully expect to see the team have another vet PG if Mills goes elsewhere. I don't think Pop has any qualms about keeping Murray on the bench for years until DeJounte can show he's going to be a consistent backup. Murray once tweeted/instagramed that "nothing was given". Let's hope he honestly believe that.

[MaNu4Tres]

Loyalty is a factor but If you are good enough it wont be enough of a factor. Richard Jefferson was still here in his rookie year and Poop still had Jackson in Leonard rookie year.

Murray has tons of potential but is so erratic. I suspect the comment about watching chris paul stems from the fact that Paul is probably the most controlled PG i have ever seen my whole life

You're wrong.

Loyalty factor doesn't factor in with RJ. He didn't garner the respect Tony and Mills currently do. They were disappointed in him from the start.

Plus, Kawhi had to play. Spurs were super thin at the SF position his rookie year. If Spurs had 35 yr old Bruce Bowen ( Tony), and and 30 year old Elliott backing up Bowen (Mills), then Kawhi ( Murray) would have been in the same boat Murray is right now.

[SAGirl]

Loyalty is a factor but If you are good enough it wont be enough of a factor. Richard Jefferson was still here in his rookie year and Poop still had Jackson in Leonard rookie year.

Murray has tons of potential but is so erratic. I suspect the comment about watching chris paul stems from the fact that Paul is probably the most controlled PG i have ever seen my whole life

It's not just that. I suspect it was aimed at knowing what he was doing. Being purposeful. Knowing how you are defended, who is going to be open, just being methodical and smart with his drives. Right now he gets swarmed at times bc he doesn't pay attention where his guys are, sometimes he tries to penetrate from one side of the fort where there are two or more guys parked that help can come from. He can direct others to relocate to get more space, etc. He's not being that smart with what he's doing. It seems Pop wants him to be a bit more cerebral, my interpretation.

Manu was already an experienced player when he joined the Spurs... even without comparting talent he was older and had been winning for a few years already. Murray was in a terrible Washington team losing games in college in part bc he couldn't shoot worth a lick and wouldn't stop trying but that wasn't the only thing. He's got a lot to learn. Pop even mentioned as much as Tony was also young he had also been playing professionally for some years and competing internationally since very young. Murray is a kid in terms of development... just no comparison.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, as I said, Murray's going to have to earn his spot in the rotation. I fully expect to see the team have another vet PG if Mills goes elsewhere. I don't think Pop has any qualms about keeping Murray on the bench for years until DeJounte can show he's going to be a consistent backup. Murray once tweeted/instagramed that "nothing was given". Let's hope he honestly believe that.

He's not going to post it if he doesn't believe it. He's seen it first hand. Kyle and Simmons playing is no Pop gift. They earned that chance. Simmons improved a lot from one season to the next and Kyle is just solid at what he does and still a young developing player, who also improved from one season to the next and he's earned his chance. Pop playing him as a SG was never about him and that's something Pop knows.

Davis has played professionally since he was 15, that's why I mentioned he's not the same type of rook. Murray started the 15th guy. Pop had Nico in the team bc he wasn't trusted. He's earned the 3rd spot. Pop is the one setting a barrier saying while Tony and Mills are in the team he goes no further. That was a Pop statement. Maybe he can go further if given the chance but this season is not that time. That's what Pop is saying. Pop not Murray.

[SAGirl]

He's getting his chance next season. They have to move him along same as they did Anderson and CoJo at a time without even getting to discuss talent. I think just in their timing and scheduled progression they have to move him along his second season. Maybe they get a Rasual Butler type for him to beat out (PG version) same as they did for Anderson and Simmons but he will get his chance. What he does with that is on him. I don't expect him to fail that. Neither CoJo nor Anderson failed to get their options picked up and rookie deals are so cheap that I think Spurs envision having him his 4 seasons in his room deal if he progresses along some sort of schedule.

Murray has a skill Spurs need which makes it more likely that he can really become a significant contributor. But it's on him for sure and it won't just be handed to him. I am sure that's being made clear. But has he really gotten a chance for a roster spot this season? Nah. Since the draft night they said they didn't expect much from him this year.

[SAGirl]

“With Dejounte, it’s about minutes,” head coach Gregg Popovich told Michael C. Wright of ESPN. “The more minutes he gets, the better. He’ll still play some minutes in the D-League. I don’t think it’ll do him much good just to sit on our bench the whole time. He needs to get repe ions in the pick-and-roll, make decisions on a fast break, all that sort of thing. He’ll still do double-duty in a sense. But I just think his potential is off the charts because he is so willing, he’s so young, and he’s got so many physical attributes. We just need to work on his skills and stick with him.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/3832608/nba...-laprovittola/

[Mr. Body]

Why doesn't he get more minutes, then?

[gambit1990]

hopefully tony sits out a game or two w that knee issue...

[LaMarcus Bryant]

He needs to start a few games like hill did and we're running out of time

[SpursforSix]

He needs to start a few games like hill did and we're running out of time

I'd rather wait until Leonard's on the downside.

[gambit1990]

spurs just tweeted that parker is questionable for tomorrow.

[OrEmuN]

Any playing time that Pop is able to crave out for Murray is much welcomed.
Hope that Spurs can seal up 2nd seed earlier and let Murray play more.

[MultiTroll]

Just watched the beautiful driving left handed banker layup in the late 2nd qtr vs Kings.
With very good defense on him.
Did not get into game until it was like 54-29 Kings. Porker n Patty.

Unreal he is being held back.

[MultiTroll]

Murray was sidelined with a strained left groin, missing his first game of his rookie season due to injury.

Vs Golden State.

[Mr. Body]

Too bad. He could have easily missed as many shots as McCaw did.