Pick #2 - Strategies

[heyheymymy]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

[SpursBills]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

Unfortunately there's really no way that the Mavs ever trade Flagg for Harper. Nico was willing to trade a top 2 big playmaking guard just entering his prime for an injury prone two-way big leaving his prime. Now that he's got a chance to draft the two way big/wing of his dreams, he's not going to turn around and trade him for a shorter, probably worse big playmaking guard. Flagg is the better prospect and represents the archetype that Nico values above any other, I'm not convinced there's any player short of Wemby that Nico personally would Flagg for based on what we've seen.

It'd be like asking Brian Wright to trade Dylan Harper for...basically Ace Bailey in a vacuum knowing everything we know about what the Spurs front office likes (jumbo ball handlers, high IQ, positional versatility) and doesn't like

[mo7888]

Unfortunately there's really no way that the Mavs ever trade Flagg for Harper. Nico was willing to trade a top 2 big playmaking guard just entering his prime for an injury prone two-way big leaving his prime. Now that he's got a chance to draft the two way big/wing of his dreams, he's not going to turn around and trade him for a shorter, probably worse big playmaking guard. Flagg is the better prospect and represents the archetype that Nico values above any other, I'm not convinced there's any player short of Wemby that Nico personally would Flagg for based on what we've seen.

It'd be like asking Brian Wright to trade Dylan Harper for...basically Ace Bailey in a vacuum knowing everything we know about what the Spurs front office likes (jumbo ball handlers, high IQ, positional versatility) and doesn't like

Not that they'd do either, but they'd probably move AD for future picks/players, let Kyrie expire and build around Flagg before they trade Flagg.

[Obstructed_View]

Flagg is Luka with a work ethic. Nobody in their right mind trades that for anything.

That said, nobody in their right mind trades Luka for Street Clothes and a Taco Cabana gift certificate.

[Biggems]

If Harper is the best player on the board, you run that card to Silver. I don't care if we have Fox, Castle, Vassell, and Champ.you add elite talent and don't think twice about it.

The season is long. If you have quality depth, you will lower the risk for injury. You will also go into the playoffs with a fresher unit.

I am not opposed to trading away the bottom of the roster. I wonder if we could steal a few more 2nds for the likes of Wesley and Branham.

[Dex]

Flagg is Luka with a work ethic. Nobody in their right mind trades that for anything.

That said, nobody in their right mind trades Luka for Street Clothes and a Taco Cabana gift certificate.

Flagg is not Luka.

Luka came into the league as a bonafide stud and has proven it every year (yes, despite his conditioning issues).

Flagg is still a good 2-3 years away from reaching Luka levels, and even that isn't guaranteed.

I thing Flagg will end up being a good player, but people acting like he is the next Bird and I just don't see it.

[Obstructed_View]

Flagg is not Luka.

Luka came into the league as a bonafide stud and has proven it every year (yes, despite his conditioning issues).

Flagg is still a good 2-3 years away from reaching Luka levels, and even that isn't guaranteed.

I thing Flagg will end up being a good player, but people acting like he is the next Bird and I just don't see it.

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

[Dex]

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

Not sure what the argument is here?

Luka wasn't the #1 pick because two teams were dumb enough to draft Deandre Ayton and Marvin ing Bagley ahead of him. How'd that work out for them?

Regardless of draft position, my point is that Luka was the more polished player coming into the draft, and Flagg has a long ways to go before he deserves to be considered on Luka's level.

[Guru of Nothing]

I tried looking at deals built around swapping #1 and #2 just because the fit may work better possibly but the Mavericks are almost unhelpable. Such a terrible situation because really AD is the best trade asset but you can't just get rid of him after the Luka thing and I kinda like a AD/Giannis front court concept at least loosely. Then Kyrie being out injured for next season ruins everything anyway because AD/Harper wouldn't as likely contend right away but if Harper was behind a healthy Kyrie maybe that's different. Best Mavs can trade are Klaynus and PJ totaling like 30MM when Giannis is 48MM. Kyrie is like dead money sunk into the outlook. Just an abysmal situation no one is going to take the Caleb Martins and Naji Marshalls at face value and Flagg is going to be trapped there.

Tried doing 4 team deals with NOLA/PHI etc but can't get the pieces to work. Like taking a step back to #7 but you also get TMIII plus another future FRP? It's interesting but not enough to consider. There's something in there if you want to get surgical with a big swap around because some teams have nearby picks and different wants and needs but fit be damned I am with Harper in San Antonio and Wemby is already our #1.

Remember that time Ted Beneke "inherited" $621,552.33 from Great Aunt Birgid? and instead of paying his IRS bill with the money, he invested in hookers and blow.

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure what the argument is here?

Luka wasn't the #1 pick because two teams were dumb enough to draft Deandre Ayton and Marvin ing Bagley ahead of him. How'd that work out for them?

Regardless of draft position, my point is that Luka was the more polished player coming into the draft, and Flagg has a long ways to go before he deserves to be considered on Luka's level.

The argument is that you are looking at Luka now with hindsight, and the reality is that he wasn't what he is now before he was drafted, or two teams wouldn't have passed on him. You have no idea what CF will be, but he's more highly touted than Luka was at this stage, and he's established that he has a top work ethic and will likely never show up to camp 30 pounds overweight. From Nico's standpoint, Flagg checks all the boxes that Luka, great as he is, didn't. Even a cretin like Nico is smart enough not to trade him away.

[Dex]

The argument is that you are looking at Luka now with hindsight, and the reality is that he wasn't what he is now before he was drafted, or two teams wouldn't have passed on him. You have no idea what CF will be, but he's more highly touted than Luka was at this stage, and he's established that he has a top work ethic and will likely never show up to camp 30 pounds overweight. From Nico's standpoint, Flagg checks all the boxes that Luka, great as he is, didn't. Even a cretin like Nico is smart enough not to trade him away.

I agree with all of this.

But, Luka also came in as a seasoned professional playing in the Euro-leagues.

Flagg played one year for Duke, where he was very good...but again, if I had to choose rookie Luka or rookie Cooper, I take Luka every time.

Maybe it's just me, but I thing Flagg is over-hyped, and I would say that even if we had the #1 pick. We've seen a lot of guys of his nature come into the NBA and flame out.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with all of this.

But, Luka also came in as a seasoned professional playing in the Euro-leagues.

Flagg played one year for Duke, where he was very good...but again, if I had to choose rookie Luka or rookie Cooper, I take Luka every time.

Maybe it's just me, but I thing Flagg is over-hyped, and I would say that even if we had the #1 pick. We've seen a lot of guys of his nature come into the NBA and flame out.

Those are all reasonable points. There is no question that Luka is magical. He's incredible to watch.

Knowing what we know now, you take Luka every time. Of course you do. But that's because we know what Luka turned into and we don't yet know what Flagg will be. Again, I completely agree.

That said, we know that Flagg, whether he's great or not, will not have conditioning issues. If that's actually the reason Dallas traded him, then, as I said, there is zero chance they trade the pick.

It's possible Flagg is overhyped. It's also possible that being white gives teams pause. People thought Luka was overhyped and that Mark Cuban was crazy. I am a little sad the Spurs missed number one just because having a solid pro at small forward potentially turns this team into a juggernaut for the next decade. The Spurs would take Flagg and not care if he never develops into a superstar as long as he works hard, plays team ball and focuses on defense.

[heyheymymy]

You can talk about AD/Flagg/Irving but what if you have to strike through the AD/Irving part. Sure maybe they stay healthy and connect or it could basically be Flagg and a mess with low flexibility to restructure. As saved at the Mavs are they are still kinda ed. But if healthy I see the appeal of that trio for sure.

[cjw]

trading the pick should be on the table and getting a ransom from a team like the wizards... next years draft looks better at the top.

You don’t trade the second pick for a pick that could potentially be a top four pick. Yes, the Wizards should stink, but that doesn’t guarantee anything. They would need to give up their 2026, 2027 swap and 2028 for the second pick. Maybe you extinguish the 2027 swap if their 2026 pick is in the top four if that’s allowed.

[Holt's Cat]

I think adding Castle and Fox makes keeping the pick and taking Harper more likely.

If Spurs weren’t making progress in building supporting cast for Wemby there might be more pressure to do a deal.

Path forward seems clear, especially with the future picks and swaps over next 2 to 3 years.

Elite talent on rookie contracts is a great thing to have.

[Ice009]

Yeah, that's why Luka was the number one pick, right?

I knew he was the number 1 pick. It's not our fault NBA execs were absolutely stupid drafting other players ahead of him. It's not our fault Phoenix wanted Ayton. It's not our fault Sacramento ed up. I wanted the Spurs to do whatever they could to trade with either Phoenix or Sacramento to draft him. Phoenix unfortunately wasn't feasible due to Kawhi having no interest going there. Spurs fans here at ST also identified Luka as a bonafide star before that draft. I'd say maybe the passed on him because he played in Europe. That might have been a factor. I actually watched him before that draft and thought he was legit, and I don't really ever watch college or European basketball. When I was watching Luka, I thought he had the potential to be a Manu like player and be as good as Manu at some point. I was actually wrong as he exceeded my expectations really quickly which made it even worse that the Mavs got him.

Atlanta also screwed up (not sure if they wanted to keep him or not, or if that was arranged with Dallas before the draft?). It also sucks that he's now gone to the Lakers as I've wanted to watch him, but can't ever go for him being on teams like the Mavericks or Lakers. Same with Cooper, I really want to watch the guy play well and succeed, but don't know if I can with him being on the Mavericks. Maybe I'll have to try and forget about the rivalry and watch him a bit.

Those are all reasonable points. There is no question that Luka is magical. He's incredible to watch.

Knowing what we know now, you take Luka every time. Of course you do. But that's because we know what Luka turned into and we don't yet know what Flagg will be. Again, I completely agree.

That said, we know that Flagg, whether he's great or not, will not have conditioning issues. If that's actually the reason Dallas traded him, then, as I said, there is zero chance they trade the pick.

It's possible Flagg is overhyped. It's also possible that being white gives teams pause. People thought Luka was overhyped and that Mark Cuban was crazy. I am a little sad the Spurs missed number one just because having a solid pro at small forward potentially turns this team into a juggernaut for the next decade. The Spurs would take Flagg and not care if he never develops into a superstar as long as he works hard, plays team ball and focuses on defense.

Yeah, this is why I wanted Flagg too. Could have worked great here, and I am sure he wanted it too when it got down to the last four, last two, I am sure he wanted it too . Oh well, I've since starting looking at Harper and now I am envisioning a different kind of team and play. I'm looking at it as having another TP/Manu type player (or Cunnigham/Harden as Dylan compares himself to) to add to what could already be our new TP in Fox and a Manu/TP combination player in Castle (again, it's a projection, I'm not saying they're already those players). I'll take adding a guy that could as good or better than both of those guys the Spurs have every day of the week.

[Obstructed_View]

I knew he was the number 1 pick. It's not our fault NBA execs were absolutely stupid drafting other players ahead of him. It's not our fault Phoenix wanted Ayton. It's not our fault Sacramento ed up. I wanted the Spurs to do whatever they could to trade with either Phoenix or Sacramento to draft him. Phoenix unfortunately wasn't feasible due to Kawhi having no interest going there. Spurs fans here at ST also identified Luka as a bonafide star before that draft. I'd say maybe the passed on him because he played in Europe. That might have been a factor. I actually watched him before that draft and thought he was legit, and I don't really ever watch college or European basketball. When I was watching Luka, I thought he had the potential to be a Manu like player and be as good as Manu at some point. I was actually wrong as he exceeded my expectations really quickly which made it even worse that the Mavs got him.

Atlanta also screwed up (not sure if they wanted to keep him or not, or if that was arranged with Dallas before the draft?). It also sucks that he's now gone to the Lakers as I've wanted to watch him, but can't ever go for him being on teams like the Mavericks or Lakers. Same with Cooper, I really want to watch the guy play well and succeed, but don't know if I can with him being on the Mavericks. Maybe I'll have to try and forget about the rivalry and watch him a bit.



Yeah, this is why I wanted Flagg too. Could have worked great here, and I am sure he wanted it too when it got down to the last four, last two, I am sure he wanted it too . Oh well, I've since starting looking at Harper and now I am envisioning a different kind of team and play. I'm looking at it as having another TP/Manu type player (or Cunnigham/Harden as Dylan compares himself to) to add to what could already be our new TP in Fox and a Manu/TP combination player in Castle (again, it's a projection, I'm not saying they're already those players). I'll take adding a guy that could as good or better than both of those guys the Spurs have every day of the week.

Agree on all points. The thing to pray for to the basketball gods now is that all the guys on the Spurs are team first players who want to help Victor win championships. The lack of this is what killed OKC when they had Harden, Westbrook, and KD.

[Dejounte]

y’all. It’s been reported already the Spurs are 99.9% picking Harper

[sfernald]

Drives me nuts seeing how little court vision Keldon has and Ace would be similar but you're also subtracting Keldon's ability to just bull his way to the rim. Just wouldn't be surprised to him be 2025 Whitmore (though no way he drops as far as 20). Was reading something in the Toronto Sun where they were discussing how there might be an outside chance to get Bailey with their #9 pick with how rapidly his stock has been falling at the combine.

people finally figuring out ACE=GG++

[ambchang]

Harper at 2 is pretty much a no brainer. I can’t help but see him being our new age Manu and dominate the second teams. He can even get keldon, vassell and sochan good shots and perhaps make them useful, if those three are still around.

Fox, castle, sochan, Barnes wemby to start
Harper, Vassell, keldon, as heavy minutes rotation guys.
Wesley Mamu and bassey with spot minutes.
It’s not a bad team.

[dn0774]

Harper at 2 is pretty much a no brainer. I can’t help but see him being our new age Manu and dominate the second teams. He can even get keldon, vassell and sochan good shots and perhaps make them useful, if those three are still around.

Fox, castle, sochan, Barnes wemby to start
Harper, Vassell, keldon, as heavy minutes rotation guys.
Wesley Mamu and bassey with spot minutes.
It’s not a bad team.

Unless something crazy happens this summer with Sochan and/or Castles shooting I just can’t get on board with that starting lineup.

[exstatic]

I would agree if they weren't all subpar shooters, tbh.

Fox and Harper are both good catch and shoot guys. On that pod that was posted with Fox as a guest, he said his C&S number was 40% over the last 2 seasons. Supposedly, Harper was like 42% C&S. If you have enough guys moving the ball and bending the defense, the C&S looks will be there.

[exstatic]

You can talk about AD/Flagg/Irving but what if you have to strike through the AD/Irving part. Sure maybe they stay healthy and connect or it could basically be Flagg and a mess with low flexibility to restructure. As saved at the Mavs are they are still kinda ed. But if healthy I see the appeal of that trio for sure.

I’m pretty convinced that Kyrie is done in Dallas, or only has a few recovery games at the end of next year.

[Mr. Body]

Would Fox be interested in contending right now in Dallas?

[mo7888]

Would Fox be interested in contending right now in Dallas?

I don't think so after he maneuvered his way here. What were you thinking about coming our way from D?