Stephon Castle - 2024 NBA Draft Prospect

[exstatic]

It's mostly the shooting. But I put that to cover everything that people might see, there's plenty of videos and articles out there. I have seen critiques of him not being an elite athlete, not having point guard level skills, etc.

Arguably as a wing player Holland is just as complete besides the shooting and touch at the rim. Gold medal winner for usa youth teams, Great size, great motor, elite athlete, gets downhill, huge defensive event creation, promising playmaking as a wing. But few are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt it seems, being 8 months younger than Castle and being the number 1 in a bad situation doesn't matter.

Russillo and Veccini raised questions about Holland’s processing speed on both sides of the ball in that podcast. That’s kind of a huge bust red flag for a kid with nearly zero fundamentals.

[exstatic]

Look, I am a big fan of Castle and would love to end up with him…but you can’t just casually dismiss having no jumper as if it’s an afterthought Especially considering we just watched the Spurs be one of the worst shooting teams in the league this past season.

There’s also reason to doubt he can be a legitimate PG who consistently initiates and generates offense. He has a great BBIQ and has shown nice flashes of passing so there’s hope but it’s not a given by any means.

If he struggles at PG in the NBA + doesn’t develop his jumper, suddenly it’s a pretty brutal fit considering the rest of our squad. Not saying he’s not worth the risk, but acting like he’s a no-brainer slam dunk over any other options just seems a little silly IMO.

This draft is a hot mess, but of all the players, he has more boxes checked and the right sized body than anyone else in the draft. I’m not dismissing his lack of shooting, but it is literally his only barrier to being a really good player. His size also gives him upside tails as a wing or off guard. To me, he is the no brainer in this very flawed draft, which is not the same as can’t miss. Veccini breaks his draft into tiers, but it’s not based on the players in the draft, but a set of criteria. Tier 1 is likely All NBA. He has none in this draft. Tier 2 is likely All Star. He also has none in this draft. It’s a grab bag, and none of these guys might pan out. I just think Castle give you the best shot, even if it a long shot.

[KobesAchilles]

Glad we’re doing this nonsense with a 19 year old on miniscule shooting attempts .

Yeah he could NEVER improve his shooting.

Unfortunately it’s not just his shooting. It would be way easier if it was. He would have to learn how to play point guard on top of not knowing how to shoot on top of not being an elite athlete. He looks like Antonio Daniels to me.

But don’t act like a ton of 19 year olds don’t learn how to shoot. Let me ask you a question. How good is our shooting coach? Do you even know? I don’t think people realize how far behind the 8 ball we are as a franchise. We just assume bc we used to develop players at a high level we will continue to do so. Theres no basis for it. We don’t have any good assistant coaches anymore for development. Chip is gone. Forcier is gone. Hardy is gone.

What do we have to really teach Reed? Basically game speed adjustments. Tighten up his handle. Tighten up his pocket passes. His release is already crazy quick. If he’s in the correct position on defense then he will be a positive on that side. He has great hands and anticipation already. People are really overrating PG defense. You don’t draft a future PG bc he can defend college kids. It’s just not smart.

[AFBlue]

Unfortunately it’s not just his shooting. It would be way easier if it was. He would have to learn how to play point guard on top of not knowing how to shoot on top of not being an elite athlete. He looks like Antonio Daniels to me.

But don’t act like a ton of 19 year olds don’t learn how to shoot. Let me ask you a question. How good is our shooting coach? Do you even know? I don’t think people realize how far behind the 8 ball we are as a franchise. We just assume bc we used to develop players at a high level we will continue to do so. Theres no basis for it. We don’t have any good assistant coaches anymore for development. Chip is gone. Forcier is gone. Hardy is gone.

What do we have to really teach Reed? Basically game speed adjustments. Tighten up his handle. Tighten up his pocket passes. His release is already crazy quick. If he’s in the correct position on defense then he will be a positive on that side. He has great hands and anticipation already. People are really overrating PG defense. You don’t draft a future PG bc he can defend college kids. It’s just not smart.

Do either Sheppard or Castle really have to learn to play PG? I mean it would significantly improve their long-term upside if they did, but both can still be incredibly valuable as connectors and secondary playmakers. I'm not sure either ends up as a primary on-the-ball guy, so for me it comes down to valuing shooting or defensive positional versatility. The Spurs desperately need both, so I don't think there's a bad choice between the two.

[Ariel]

But don’t act like a ton of 19 year olds don’t learn how to shoot. Let me ask you a question. How good is our shooting coach? Do you even know? I don’t think people realize how far behind the 8 ball we are as a franchise. We just assume bc we used to develop players at a high level we will continue to do so. Theres no basis for it. We don’t have any good assistant coaches anymore for development. Chip is gone. Forcier is gone. Hardy is gone.

I have to say, this is something I think about too. Every player that leaves the Spurs seems to improve their shooting (Dejounte, Derrick White, etc) while the Spurs own prospects seem mostly stagnant. Plenty of teams have had huge success helping their guys improve their shooting (Chicago, New Orleans, Toronto, etc), Detroit just pried from New Orleans the coach that rebuilt from the ground up Lonzo's shot. You'd think this would be a huge priority if you're drafting non shooters, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly, this is partly why I want Risacher and Dillingham, and would take Sheppard as well.

[BackHome]

One thing the Spurs always had in the past was very good assistant coaches and probably very good skills coaches in the background. The last few years I would have to say our coaching staff has not been good to say it lightly as the main reason is no one knows when Pop is going to retire.

Drafting Wemby has changed a lot of things and one thing that needs to change is that we need better assistants - Heck bring in a vet seasoned coach and a new upcoming coach who can relate to these young players

[Mr. Body]

Do either Sheppard or Castle really have to learn to play PG? I mean it would significantly improve their long-term upside if they did, but both can still be incredibly valuable as connectors and secondary playmakers. I'm not sure either ends up as a primary on-the-ball guy, so for me it comes down to valuing shooting or defensive positional versatility. The Spurs desperately need both, so I don't think there's a bad choice between the two.

No. They're both more than good enough to play in the Spurs system, and both would get even better. They're smart basketball players. If the concern is getting Wemby the ball, Castle was very good at getting Clingan under the basket or in posts. That wouldn't be an issue.

[KobesAchilles]

Do either Sheppard or Castle really have to learn to play PG? I mean it would significantly improve their long-term upside if they did, but both can still be incredibly valuable as connectors and secondary playmakers. I'm not sure either ends up as a primary on-the-ball guy, so for me it comes down to valuing shooting or defensive positional versatility. The Spurs desperately need both, so I don't think there's a bad choice between the two.

I don’t think they need to be ball dominant. And I wouldn’t want a PG that is ball dominant. But they do need to learn how to slow down the tempo of the game, run a half court offense, and hit timely shots when called on. If we went all in on fast break offense then I think I would rather have Castle. But Pop is and always be a half court offense guy and the way to win a championship is through half court offense during crunch time. To me, Sheppard fits this bill perfectly. He just knows the game at a high level AND can shoot at a high clip. He isn’t going to be shooting 15 times a game, so we need someone who can consistently hit 6 shots a game on his 12-13 attempts.

Also Wemby getting like 10 free points a game off of lobs like Lively does during the playoffs has me salivating a bit. Harder to sag off of a guy like Sheppard than Castle

[SpursBills]

Do either Sheppard or Castle really have to learn to play PG? I mean it would significantly improve their long-term upside if they did, but both can still be incredibly valuable as connectors and secondary playmakers. I'm not sure either ends up as a primary on-the-ball guy, so for me it comes down to valuing shooting or defensive positional versatility. The Spurs desperately need both, so I don't think there's a bad choice between the two.

Both Castle and Sheppard can be "point guards", but not necessarily in the traditional sense like a Trae, CP3, or Luka.

Castle can probably be a point guard in the same way that smart or suggs is a point guard.
Sheppard can probably be a point guard in the same way that lonzo is a point guard.

[LeBowen]

Both Castle and Sheppard can be "point guards", but not necessarily in the traditional sense like a Trae, CP3, or Luka.

Castle can probably be a point guard in the same way that smart or suggs is a point guard.
Sheppard can probably be a point guard in the same way that lonzo is a point guard.

Lonzo most definitely is (was) a point guard.
I think we're too quick to dismiss if someone can or can't develop certain skills.

If we managed to develop Demar into an efficent point guard in his late 20s, anything could happen.
My biggest concern with Sheppard is if he can develop his self-creation, not passing.
I don't want to waste a high pick on a spot up shooter.

[BackHome]

I don’t think they need to be ball dominant. And I wouldn’t want a PG that is ball dominant. But they do need to learn how to slow down the tempo of the game, run a half court offense, and hit timely shots when called on. If we went all in on fast break offense then I think I would rather have Castle. But Pop is and always be a half court offense guy and the way to win a championship is through half court offense during crunch time. To me, Sheppard fits this bill perfectly. He just knows the game at a high level AND can shoot at a high clip. He isn’t going to be shooting 15 times a game, so we need someone who can consistently hit 6 shots a game on his 12-13 attempts.

Also Wemby getting like 10 free points a game off of lobs like Lively does during the playoffs has me salivating a bit. Harder to sag off of a guy like Sheppard than Castle

Yeah, at first I was thinking traditional PG who basically has the ball the majority of time but after seeing Wemby play I don't think he would be happy with that. He is going to want to get a lot of touches which is why I am leaning towards Castle

[Ice009]

Very interesting player and potential. Is it likely that Castle will be there at number 4, and if he is, would the Spurs take him?

[baseline bum]

Here's a short version of Vecenie's take: puts Castle as his #3 prospect and in Tier 3: High-Leverage Starters, behind Sarr and Sheppard and ahead of Clingan and Risacher in the tier. Highest tier he has anyone ranked in this draft:

SUMMARY: Castle is polarizing this year because of his jumper. If you believe the touch he’s shown from the free-throw line and around the rim will translate and you think his mechanics are workable, you will probably be higher on him. If you think he doesn’t have enough of a baseline level as a shooter, you probably rank him in the later portion of the lottery. Castle is my No. 3 player this year because I buy his jumper improving in time, and if it does, he has as much upside as any player in this class. He’s a potential big initiator who can already pass and is comfortable in ball screens. He’s elite on defense and has already showed that he can play a high-level role on a winning team. His floor is as a contributor who helps you win important games, even in the NBA, due to his defensive prowess and on-ball ability. If his jumper ever develops, he’s one of the few players in this class with a realistic All-Star ceiling. He’s an uncertain bet, but there are no sure things in this class. Castle is a player who could pay off most if things turn out well, but he also has a higher-end floor if it doesn’t.

[baseline bum]

More from Vecenie:

STRENGTHS: Castle has awesome measurements for an NBA wing at 6-5 1/2 without shoes and a 6-9 wingspan. His 8-6 standing reach will work well across the positional spectrum. He looked big for the college game and was also a strong athlete. He’s not elite in terms of explosiveness — he posted a 37-inch vertical leap and was sub-11 seconds in the lane agility drill at the NBA combine — but is extremely fluid and plays with physicality. He’s flexible for someone this big, strong and powerful when he drives. He has terrific body control and can maneuver around defenders on both ends. He absorbs contact well on both ends while maintaining his space. He's a very smart player with great spatial awareness when attacking opposing defenses on and off the ball. He processes the game well and plays hard.

Castle projects to be a big ballhandler, whether in a primary or secondary role. I think of him in the latter right now, which is how he played at Connecticut. The Huskies used a committee approach to the lead guard role, but Castle was excellent in ball screens in high school. In both situations, he showed a mature pace and understanding for how to use his body to create separation. He loved using hang dribbles on his drives. He was very comfortable getting to his spots by decelerating, then powering up for another step or two to go up to the rim. Sometimes, he settled for too many midrange shots in high school, but he was good at getting to the rim this year and displayed some terrific off-ball driving that included attacking closeouts. Castle doesn’t have a monster first step, but his decisiveness makes up for it. He’s aggressive in attacking directly off the catch if he recognizes that the shot won’t be there. Castle is an aggressive player who takes available space.

Castle moves well off the ball, and his terrific spatial awareness pops up in a big way as a cutter. He found many of his points this season by getting to open areas of the court on 45-degree or opposite-side baseline cuts. He has an excellent sense of timing and a knack for going at the exact instant his defender falls asleep. He flashes into the midrange areas intelligently, runs well off screens and curls and gets away from his man into dangerous spots.

From a skill perspective, Castle showed finishing ability and has always displayed terrific passing a en. He made 61.1 percent of his shots at the rim this year — including 57.1 percent in half-court settings — but the percentages got even better as he got healthier following his knee injury. He uses his body well as he loads up to get to the rim. He displaces on-ball defenders with his shoulders and hips on drives. When he has some space, he can use Euro steps that allow for sudden deceleration to get away from his man. We’ll talk about some potential concerns in the next section, but he does well as a below-the-rim finisher. He has the kind of frame and physicality that has potential to move bigger players on his drives as he gets older.

Castle has always put together impressive moments as a passer. In high school, he would throw cross-corner skips regularly out of ball screens, but then would also display sharp touch lobs. This year, Castle was even more versatile in his execution. He makes early reads in transition to teammates filling lanes and to shooters spraying out to the wings and corners. He finds tight windows to get the ball to his roller out of ball screens or to the dunker spot when on the move. He understands when he forces the help as a driver and times his pass well to hit his teammate. This season, he also showed pinpoint decision-making in the run of play. He hit high-low lobs to his bigs and found creative quick reads on touch passes without dribbling. Castle understands how to manipulate help defenders, too. He throws some jump passes where his eyes will be looking one way, then dart the other to get the ball to an open kickout. He's already looking at the third level of the defense right as he comes open and can adjust to what they give him. He made the right decision regularly, only turning the ball over 1.5 times per game while averaging nearly three assists. I'm not sure Castle will be the kind of primary lead guard who can separate from his man without a ball screen, but I think he can lead the break and play as an initiator for stretches of games.

Castle had an excellent defensive season at Connecticut across the board. On the ball, he uses his footwork and length extremely well. He has great lateral quickness and flexibility for his size, allowing him to stay in front of his man and make opposing ballhandlers miserable. He is also very strong. Because he’s 210 pounds, it’s tough to go through his core if he keeps his chest in front of you. He will be very switchable in the NBA. Connecticut used him across the perimeter this season and asked him to play a shutdown role. He picks up lead initiators far out on the court and makes it tough for them to get into their team’s set. He stays low in his stance and slides with his man. He also does a good job navigating screens and getting skinny when necessary to get around them. After he cuts his man off, he stays high and keeps his hands up to reduce angles and contest shots. If someone beats him, he uses that length and willingness to stay high to recover well and contest from the side and behind.

Castle’s ability to navigate screens also pops up in his off-ball defensive game, where he was outstanding this season. He thrived when Connecticut occasionally used him in a shutdown role on elite off-ball movers such as Baylor Scheierman. Castle does a fantastic job of locking and trailing around off-ball actions, then using his length to recover with a strong closeout or his quickness to recover back if his man attacked off the bounce. He takes great routes around screens and stays attached to his man. He’s generally balanced with his closeouts in scramble situations and covers ground quickly. When not dealing with his primary assignment, he plays solid, rotational defense. He makes quality contests from the opposite side using his length and occasionally comes up with a block. He stays big and is responsible when gambling for steals.

[baseline bum]

Vecenie on Castle's weaknesses

WEAKNESSES: Castle is not overly explosive. He’s not deficient athletically and gets a lot out of his gifts on the court because of his strength, but he’s not someone who flies around. He can throw down and dunk, but typically must load up off two feet. He has some suddenness with his hesitation dribbles, but he doesn’t have a great first step off the bounce.

Those factors will limit Castle until he gets more creative as a ballhandler. He’s not stiff and can use his body to create pockets of space with hesitations and decelerating, but he’s also not yet shifty with the ball in his hands. In part, that’s because his handle is a bit high and loose, unsurprising for a bigger teenage guard.

He doesn’t regularly cross up defenders and can struggle to separate from his man. He needs a ball screen to bend defenses. Alternatively, he can excel at keeping the advantage for his team as a driver off a closeout, but only after someone else has already manipulated the defense.

Castle often must finish tough drives through contact. He’s capable of it, but it doesn’t lead to particularly efficient scoring; this is why he was an average finisher at the rim in half-court settings. He doesn’t have a wide margin for error athletically (his early-season knee injury caused an issue) and lacks the shiftiness to consistently break down his man against a set defense. He profiles best now as second-side wing who plays next to a primary initiator, much like his role is with Connecticut.

That’s fine and he’s big enough to do that, but he’s not yet a primary initiator himself.

To become a high-level player in his second-side wing role, he must shoot the ball better. Castle made just 26.7 percent from 3 this season and only attempted 2.2 3s per game. He didn't look strong as a shooter this year in any regard. His mechanics aren’t completely broken and he did make 75.5 percent of his free throws, but he has some flaws. Shot preparation is an issue, as it is for many players who grew up playing on the ball. His rhythm throughout his body is inconsistent and his balance looks funky. He takes spot-up looks on the left side of the court with a 1-2 step and then takes shots when he’s moving to his right off the hop. On the 1-2 step shots, his body gets twisted and his knees bent too far to the left, which results in him leaning to the left on his shot. He has a deep ball dip that slows his shot down, then has a hitch at the top. It ends up with him shooting the ball on the way down more often than he should. All the moving parts in his motion cause inconsistency. The fix looks simple: When Castle minimizes the hitch in his shot, his motion looks good. That tended to happen off the hop and when he was moving to his right. He needs to focus his efforts on getting to a one-motion jumper that is fluid.

Unsurprisingly that leads to issues shooting pull-up jumpers. He made just 25 percent of his pull-up midrange shots at Connecticut, and just 29.4 percent of his pull-up 3s, per Synergy. The best way for players who struggle to separate going forward is to develop a stepback jumper. Castle was able to get to his stepback in high school and college, but hasn’t made the shot regularly. Balance is the issue: He tends to lean back on his pull-up after his hitch, particularly when launching from the midrange. Lots of his shots come up short. I’m wary of his reliance on leaning backward as regularly as he does; his projection becomes more valuable if he shows the ability to use his length to shoot over the top of defenders. However, he needs to remove the hitch to get a better weight transfer throughout the shot. The momentum on his pull-up is being generated with his arms, as opposed to his legs.

[DAF86]

With each passing day I'm more and more in favour of trading down to get more shots. I'd rather have 2 mid-teens picks and getting Devin Carter and Carlton Carrington, than keep 4 and select Castle. They are similar tier prospects, imho, and I'd prefer to get more chances to get it right. This draft should be treated as an NFL one, imho: get value by trading down.

[objective]

Russillo and Veccini raised questions about Holland’s processing speed on both sides of the ball in that podcast. That’s kind of a huge bust red flag for a kid with nearly zero fundamentals.

I don't think there's any red flags as in do-not-draft on his processing speed other than being very young in a new role

And the reason is that if his processing was really that bad, he would have a lot fewer assists and a lot more turnovers. Instead, as a freshman age player being on ball creator for the first time in his career (his point guard as a hs junior for instance was Anthony Black who ran the show) ...

He had better A/T ratio and stats and a very high usage than freshman seasons from Kawhi, from Jaylen Brown, from Tatum, from Paul George, from Andrew Wiggins. As an 18 year old against pros.

If that's the kind of play he's providing as a still learning the game kid on offense, as well as the events generating on defense with such bad processing, then he's a monster in waiting if he gets enough help and also has it in him to mature and see the game slow down for him

[SouthernFryd]

I don't want to develop skills. I want players that already have skills.

Castle needs too much development. He needs at least 2 more years in college. Let another team develop him and then make a play/trade for him later after the development..."IF" he even develops. Wait and see. Spurs need to stop relying on the draft for potentials. Let other teams "develop" these way-too-raw-kids. Then work more in trades in the future. Use your draft picks to trade for people with already developed skills.

It's a different game...you need to do things differently. White was drafted by us...But Boston ended up with him. Don't do what the Spurs did. Do what Boston did...

But, If you're gonna rely on draft, get players with skills not "potential" skills that need to be developed. Who is the most skilled in the draft right now? Get them. This ain't hard

[exstatic]

I don't want to develop skills. I want players that already have skills.

Castle needs too much development. He needs at least 2 more years in college. Let another team develop him and then make a play/trade for him later after the development..."IF" he even develops. Wait and see. Spurs need to stop relying on the draft for potentials. Let other teams "develop" these way-too-raw-kids. Then work more in trades in the future. Use your draft picks to trade for people with already developed skills.

It's a different game...you need to do things differently. White was drafted by us...But Boston ended up with him. Don't do what the Spurs did. Do what Boston did...

But, If you're gonna rely on draft, get players with skills not "potential" skills that need to be developed. Who is the most skilled in the draft right now? Get them. This ain't hard

If your front office followed this model, you’d win 35-40 games per year, and never draft a star. You’d never draft a Giannis. You’d never draft a Jokic. You’ve gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, and that includes some failed draft picks.

BTW, Castle needs some of the least development of any player in this draft, literally just the jumper.

[AFBlue]

I don't want to develop skills. I want players that already have skills.

Castle needs too much development. He needs at least 2 more years in college. Let another team develop him and then make a play/trade for him later after the development..."IF" he even develops. Wait and see. Spurs need to stop relying on the draft for potentials. Let other teams "develop" these way-too-raw-kids. Then work more in trades in the future. Use your draft picks to trade for people with already developed skills.

It's a different game...you need to do things differently. White was drafted by us...But Boston ended up with him. Don't do what the Spurs did. Do what Boston did...

But, If you're gonna rely on draft, get players with skills not "potential" skills that need to be developed. Who is the most skilled in the draft right now? Get them. This ain't hard

The draft is ALL about projection. You get players with defined roles and set skills through free agency or trade. You use the draft to take upside swings on kids with a base set of skills that have the potential to grow beyond them.

I actually think that Castle is one of the more high-floor prospects in this draft (in spite of his age), due to his defense, size and positional versatility. The fact that he could develop as a shooter and on-ball creator is what makes him worthy of #4.

I will say it's ironic that you chose White for your example, since he was almost 24 when he got drafted and had shown significant production and growth across multiple levels. The Spurs also got him at 29, when the high-floor/high-ceiling players were off the board. The Spurs are in a different position, needing to get pairings with star upside next to Victor and having access to those type of players in the top-10.

[DPG21920]

It’s interesting in the “big board” world how divisive Castle is. I see a TON of Castle being ranked 14-25+ on boards and equally top 5.

Hes not some can’t miss guy with a safe floor based on this. He’s really either disliked or someone people buy into developing

[Ariel]

It’s interesting in the “big board” world how divisive Castle is. I see a TON of Castle being ranked 14-25+ on boards and equally top 5.

Hes not some can’t miss guy with a safe floor based on this. He’s really either disliked or someone people buy into developing

I like Castle (even took him first on Dejounte's big board thread), but this is a fair point. If his shot doesn't come around to even a passable level, he's a much lower caliber of prospect than we're willing to admit. In a normal draft I'd be much more comfortable taking him in the late lottery, but this draft has all sorts of red flags for just about every pick, so we're basically picking our poison.

[TD 21]

The draft is ALL about projection. You get players with defined roles and set skills through free agency or trade. You use the draft to take upside swings on kids with a base set of skills that have the potential to grow beyond them.

The Spurs are in a different position, needing to get pairings with star upside next to Victor and having access to those type of players in the top-10.

This lacks context, which is that the Spurs have the best prospect in 20 years if not ever, a terrible team and this draft lacks not only an obvious star, but someone with clear upside to being one.

Instead of treating it like a typical re-build or a better draft, they have to take it for what it is and make sure they get at least one high floor, plug and play type instead of multiple mystery box projects.

[Mr. Body]

It’s interesting in the “big board” world how divisive Castle is. I see a TON of Castle being ranked 14-25+ on boards and equally top 5.

Hes not some can’t miss guy with a safe floor based on this. He’s really either disliked or someone people buy into developing

In this draft, it's impossible to drop him into the teens. That's pure malpractice and a sign of not knowing what they're talking about.

[SpursFan86]

This lacks context, which is that the Spurs have the best prospect in 20 years if not ever, a terrible team and this draft lacks not only an obvious star, but someone with clear upside to being one.

Instead of treating it like a typical re-build or a better draft, they have to take it for what it is and make sure they get at least one high floor, plug and play type instead of multiple mystery box projects.

I mostly agree with this, but I do think Castle has a decently high floor. Even if his jumper doesn’t develop, he seems like the type of guy who would at least be a very solid 2nd unit guy.

But yeah, getting at least one guy who we already know can shoot well is a big priority IMO and why Sheppard is my #1 target. Carter is another guy I feel good about although there is some concern that his past season was a fluke/outlier in terms of his shooting ability. Dillingham would be another great pick because at least we know he can shoot and generate offense already.

Even someone like Knecht who isn’t super exciting - I’d gladly take him over Salaun…especially if we grabbed Castle at 4.