Suns and Heat in Talks of Marion/Shaq Trade

[mardigan]

Are you a Spurs fan??

Diehard, Willie Anderson jersey and all

[whottt]

Spurs fans are great, KG wont help the Celts, Pau wont make any difference on the Lakers, and Shaq wont make the Suns better.
But getting Stromile Swift or Tyrus Thomas will put the Spurs over the top

Well adding a star isn't always the solutiuon...

But Shaq is a proven championship player...

Honestly, there are a lot of over-rated stars that adding them really doesn't do much except take shots away from existing players...


So I get that mindset. Sometimes a role player with the skill you need will do more than adding a star that lacks those skills...



But I'd say Shaq has the skills Phoenix needs as much as any player they are likely to get...moreseo than Shawn Marion.


I mean Phoenix has a weakness with the slow down game...and Shaq definitely adresses that need. He also provides toughness and championship experience.



If they'd added Chris Webber I'd be laughing at them...even if they'd added a young Chris Webber.

[sabar]

March 9th!

[mardigan]

Well adding a star isn't always the solutiuon...

But Shaq is a proven championship player...

Honestly, there are a lot of over-rated stars that adding them really doesn't do much except take shots away from existing players...


So I get that mindset, sometiems a role player with the skill you need will do more than adding a star that lacks those skills...



But I'd say Shaq has the skills Phoenix needs as much as any player they are likely to get...moreseo than Shawn Marion.

No and I get that, sometimes adding the right role player at the right time (Nazr) is more beneficial than adding a star (Karl Malone). I just find it funny that so many Spurs fans think a guy who has been a Spur destroyer, even if he has lost a lot, has nothing to offer the arch enemy. I guess everyone forgot how good he can be when he wants to be (26, 14 and 3 blocks on 10-12 shooting THIS YEAR against the Rockets) the couple of years he has been in the East. The guy can still tear a team apart, even now, when he really wants to. Being the secong option on a team with no point guard can bring any big mans stats down drastically. Bottom line is he keeps Amare out of foul trouble, and gives Nash the biggest target of his life. This almost to me signifies a change in the way we might see the Suns in the future, and I dont like it. I liked thinking as of the Suns as I always do, as the Spurs es. Hopefully that wont change.

[whottt]

No and I get that, sometimes adding the right role player at the right time (Nazr) is more beneficial than adding a star (Karl Malone). I just find it funny that so many Spurs fans think a guy who has been a Spur destroyer, even if he has lost a lot, has nothing to offer the arch enemy. I guess everyone forgot how good he can be whne he wants to be the couple of years he has been in the East. The guy can still tear a team apart, even now, when he really wants to. Being the secong option on a team with no point guard can bring any big mans stats down drastically. Bottom line is he keeps Amare out of foul trouble, and gives Nash the biggest target of his life. This almost to me signifies a change in the way we might see the Suns in the future, and I dont like it. I liked thinking as of the Suns as I always do, as the Spurs es. Hopefully that wont change.

I agree...they dumped a Spurs , for a guy who isn't a Spurs ....at the least.

[Bruno]

It looks like a desperate move.
I have a hard time seeing how this trade will help Suns. Even against Spurs, I'm not sure that it will help them. Parker will be happy to be defended by Hill or Nash. To me, this trade makes no sense at all for Suns.

[Slomo]

I'm coming late into this very entertaining thread.

First some highlights:

Just the fact that the Suns fans think it was a stupid trade should tell you that it was a good one.

& true

What pisses me off is that I could have used the Heat missing the playoffs this season in Drob VS Shaq arguments for evermore....

Pop might make a trade.

Or he might not.

in pop...

So you're saying it's basically the same as it always is?

Exactly. Pop saying he might make a trade might mean he has sent RC to Europe to scout for the draft and disconnected the phone line.

OK your response is better...

Against the Spurs, Shaq would score more points in the playoffs than Marion.

Hm.... Probably true.

So whom do we trade to get Rasho back?

Once again the faith of the Spurs lies at Rasho's feet (you know I couldn't pass that one up, don't you)



Anyway here's my take.

I don't think regular season Shaq is something we should be worried about, but come playoffs he's a different problem. Just to stroke his own ego, you know he would play better. Excited by this new twist you can expect the Refs giving him a lot of the calls in the paint - which would disrupt a good portion of our offense (to say nothing of the injury potential). Shaq isn't capable of beating us on his own, but he could be the grain of sand (ok maybe more like a boulder) that tip the scale in their favour.

I guess the outcome depends largely on whether Shaq would he be able to step away from the buffet and into the weight room.

Oh and for the record Shaq is an upgrade from Marion.

[sendman]

Is this trading, buying, dealing over yet?
Everybody got what they wanted?
No more excuses?




OK then, get in line so you don't get smacked by the Spurs twice!

[diego]

from what i understand, shaq has two years left on his contract?

and its pretty safe to assume that next year he's done, at best a marginal role player...

so this is the suns last chance. they dont have the financial flexibility to make more moves, next year shaq is going to give them a 5% return on his contract, and the year after that nash is more than likely reduced to a spot up shooter.

this is the year to slam that window shut!

[Shred]

List of available big men who would've been better additions than Shaq:

[JPB]

List of available big men who would've been better additions than Shaq:

Shaq is not an addition. That's a trade.

The question is not 'Shaq or not' but 'Shaq for Marion or not'.

[JPB]

Having the guy that is in the argument for being the greatest half court player in NBA history, can do that for you...even when he's old. Doesn't hurt to have him paired with a two time MVP PG....

If PHX tries to run-n-gun with Shaq then they are by far the dumbest organization in the league. Shaq couldn't take heavy minutes on a slow moving Miami team.

But hey, they ARE Phoenix, so it's possible they run with him and Shaq has season ending knee surgury.

Shaq IS an half court big man.

But I was more thinking about the rest of the team and about Suns system.

Are they gonna/coud they change it in the middle of the season just for Shaq who is not the dominant player he was ?

[Shred]

Shaq is not an addition. That's a trade.

The question is not 'Shaq or not' but 'Shaq for Marion or not'.

In the big picture, you could think of the Suns' moves since last season as Marion for Hill + Shaq. But here goes:

List of better big men available by trade:













Eh, not so much.

[JPB]

Theorically, every player is available by trade.

but here are some :

Haslem
Mourning
PJ Brown (free agent. PHO was interested)
Wallace (Lakers were)
Jermaine O'Neal (discussed every year)

[1Parker1]

Here's what I don't understand. Having Shaq on their team, Suns would become a more 1/2 court offensive team with him in the lineup...no way Shaq can keep up with the up and down play of the Suns. And as the Spurs proved last week in their game against the Suns, they are definitely not a good halfcourt team...even with Shaq they wouldn't be I don't think.

Personally, I think the loss to the Spurs last week without Parker has spurred the Suns into believing they have to make some trade..any trade if they want a chance to come out of the West this year.

[RADECK]

I wouldn't mind to se Marion in Spurs uniform, but this trade makes Suns even more ty team.

[Mr. Body]

Off the top of my head, but not knowing his injury situation, Jermaine O'Neal would have been a much better option.

[1Parker1]

^Agreed. Or even keeping Kurt Thomas if they wanted a defensive presence in the middle!

[bresilhac]

I wouldn't mind to se Marion in Spurs uniform, but this trade makes Suns even more ty team.

Without question this stupid, desperate move diminishes the Suns chances at winning it all. Marion fit in perfectly with the D'Antoni/Nash run and gun system and was the perfect scoring complement to Amare. Now, they've got a washed up, near finished Shaquille who will at best contribute only a little to what the team will want to accomplish. It surprises me that Steve Kerr could have been a party to such a bonehead move given his past success.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Geez, that was quite a read. My take on it: It makes the Suns better, but it's not going to get them over the hump. It makes sense for the Suns, but they face REALLY long odds on it paying off. Marion needed to go, I think they probably got about as good of a player as they were going to get, and they needed to make a change to what they were doing. The problem as I see it is time. Do they have enough time to get a guy like Shaq, who will change the entire iden y of the team when he steps on the floor, integrated well enough into the team to get them to the next level? I would wonder even if they made this move in the offseason, much less at the deadline. More importantly, will Shaq's health give him the time he needs to get integrated into this team? Obviously he needs to be healthy for the playoffs, but he represents such a radical shift for this team that they may not have the luxury of him taking it easy and missing much time for the rest of the season if they want him to be a true difference maker in May. I don't doubt that Shaq's got something left in the tank, I just wonder if the Suns are going to be able to tap into it enough to make the leap to a true championship caliber team.

[Real Tomato Ketchup]

Geez, that was quite a read. My take on it: It makes the Suns better, but it's not going to get them over the hump. It makes sense for the Suns, but they face REALLY long odds on it paying off. Marion needed to go, I think they probably got about as good of a player as they were going to get, and they needed to make a change to what they were doing. The problem as I see it is time. Do they have enough time to get a guy like Shaq, who will change the entire iden y of the team when he steps on the floor, integrated well enough into the team to get them to the next level? I would wonder even if they made this move in the offseason, much less at the deadline. More importantly, will Shaq's health give him the time he needs to get integrated into this team? Obviously he needs to be healthy for the playoffs, but he represents such a radical shift for this team that they may not have the luxury of him taking it easy and missing much time for the rest of the season if they want him to be a true difference maker in May. I don't doubt that Shaq's got something left in the tank, I just wonder if the Suns are going to be able to tap into it enough to make the leap to a true championship caliber team.

Ain't no way I am reading that whole thread, your wrap up was perfect.

[Ghost Writer]

This is a reactionary move by the Suns in response to Gasol on the Lakers.

It's a bad move for them.

Shaq is slow, plodding and good in the half court.

How does that fit into their plans?



P.S.

Gasol and Marion both whined about being traded. This continues the trend of players forcing their front office's hand.

[spursfaninla]

What shaq does for the suns:

1) half court scoring: When Phoenix is FORCED to slow down in the playoffs, they have a chance at scoring in the half court. This takes pressure off of Amare to guard Duncan, and if Shaq gets fouls it probably does not really hurt them because they will only want 15 pts or so from him anyway.

2) defense around the basket: Gives them a shot blocker who can intimidate around the basket (his weight alone)

What shaq does not do:

1defend well other than clog the middle and block shots.
2Rebound. Marion actually had better numbers than shaq
3keep the weight off. Shaq is at risk of missing time, and it would be
inopportune if he was not healthy in the playoffs
4 help chemistry: Marion was a BIG part of their fast break. He was a
cancer, but overall I don't know if shaq will mesh in time.

Overall: Marion was decent on parker, and I see Nash now having to guard him, which is very bad for phoenix. The Spurs will force shaq out on pick and rolls and make him switch and come out on parker, which his tired old self might finally not want to do. Shaq does help them in the area I think they were weakest: what do they do on both ends of the court in half court? Shaq hurts them, I think badly, when it comes to chemistry issues, and is risky with his health. Overall risky, with (I think) more downside than up, but you never know, it could end up helping them. Doubt it.

[peskypesky]

Does Shaq honestly demand a constant double team every possesion any more? No. If you've seen Heat games players are not afraid of guarding him 1 on 1 anymore.

Very true. Hard to believe, but true. I've seen a lot of games this year where teams went to single coverage on Shaq and he didn't destroy his defender like he used to. He still has the bulk and the strength, but he no longer has the explosiveness and the hops. I've seen him miss a lot of layups and chip-shots that he never used to miss.

[ploto]

This begs the question, if Shaq goes to Phoenix, do the Spurs wish they still had Rasho??