Wow.
I still can't quite wrap my head around this one. I'm sad to see Shawn Marion go.
That is what i was thinking, Shaq can guard Duncan, when did this happen did i miss the memo?? Did he guard him in 03 whenever they made the switch, NOPE Timmy destroyed the Lakers in 03 when Shaq was at his best. Shaq is not a good defender anymore, he is old, slow out of shape and always injured. He can't guard Duncan and will not be enough of a dominant force out there on offense to have made it worth losing Marions versatility and defense, especially on Parker, who owns the Suns.
Question- does this move mean the Spurs should hold onto Elson and not trade him?
Isn't the pendulum interesting...
People said the Suns would never win a championship that way and so they are changing to try to find a way to win one-- which is their goal. What is so bad about that?
Last edited by ploto; 02-06-2008 at 01:05 PM.
Suns will regret trading for O'Neal
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 6, 2008
As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse could deliver a championship?
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a le.
If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
ADVERTISEMENT
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal "fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end? Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet it doesn't make him right for the Suns.
Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.
The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful thinking. Listen, Shaq had one le left in him. Pat Riley squeezed it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks' half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the floor.
Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.
So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a le, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it. They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare at the five, and Matrix at the four. … And now, you put Shaq out there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are stripping the iden y of this team with him. Plus, what does he have left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq seems just that – settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe this is the president going it alone.
Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.
Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.
It feels like unconditional surrender.
Adrian Wojnarowski is the NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Send Adrian a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns
Their GMs had been trying to get rid of them as soon as they got their jobs. In Gasol's case it's because the owner told him to dump salary. In Marion's case it's because the only person who could stand Marion on that team was Marion.
Are you arguing or enhancing?
Those two have acted like b1tches and begged to be dealt for a while now.
Their GMs probably could've gotten more, but decided to deal with the cancer immediately.
Kerr could have traded Marion immediately but didn't want to give away Stoudemire. Gasol could have been traded several times over but Heisley actually wanted to take LESS back in trade.
PS - Nice of you to come around on the possibility of a Miller trade. Way to think outside the box.
Um, again, thanks Captain Obvious.
When did I p1ss on Mike Miller?
You took a long, hard, smelly piss on the possibility of a Miller trade when I brought it up. You said there was no way Memphis would let him go for expiring contracts, picks and cash.
Now that they did just that for Gasol, you changed your tune.
False.
You took a long, hard, smelly piss on the possibility of a Miller trade when I brought it up. You said there was no way Memphis would let him go for expiring contracts, picks and cash.
Now that they did just that for Gasol, you changed your tune.
I never said M. Miller would not be a great fit in San Antonio.
And I never said that Miller to the Spurs was a possibility.
In fact, I have not seen anywhere that Miller is on the market.
We all knew Gasol had to go.
Is Memphis continuing the firesale after Gasol and Swift?
Question.
I'm curious to see how good of a coaching job D'antoni will do.
expecially when Shaq-fu demands more touches
Yeah, and?
Miller is very good and I don't see any reason for Memphis to trade him (Gasol) or waive him (D. Stoudamire).
If he's available, then sure... get him!
Now you're intrigued by the possibility.
Tell me, are the Memphis Grizzlies now a profitable team after trading Gasol?
Are they now a better team after trading Gasol?
You refuse to look at basketball as a business and that limits your thinking.
There aren't any real basketball reasons to trade Miller but there are enormous business reasons to trade him. About 19 million of them.
...
Although O'Neal has been out with a hip injury, there is a belief that he will pass the physical because he is in great condition and is said to be at 312 pounds (down from his listed 325 pounds) with low body fat.
He seems to be a motivated player too, having jumped on a plane this morning after talking to several of the Suns, such as Steve Nash and Amaré Stoudemire, on Tuesday night.
"I will not let you down," O'Neal told Nash on the phone....
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...haqlatest.html
Sources said both Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire were asked on Tuesday for their reaction to O’Neal possibly joining the team, and both were in favor of the move...
Phoenix’s reasoning for considering the deal apparently doesn’t have so much to do with the recent rumblings around the West – the Lakers acquisition of Pau Gasol and rumors Dallas could be looking to add Jason Kidd – as the realization that asking Stoudemire to play out of position against the league’s top centers wasn’t working.
The Mavericks are also interested in O’Neal and are believed to have offered forward Josh Howard as the main piece in such a deal.
Phoenix either has to constantly double team or deal with Stoudemire’s frequent foul difficulties. Last Thursday’s 84-81 loss to San Antonio, when Stoudemire picked up two fouls in the first three minutes and had to avoid Duncan defensively the rest of the way, appears to have been more of a catalyst to the O’Neal discussions. There has also been a season-long feeling that the team cohesion hasn’t equaled that of the last three seasons, when Phoenix reached the Western Conference finals twice.
With Nash about to celebrate his 34th birthday on Thursday, the idea is to prop open the team’s “championship window” with one of the most celebrated players in NBA history, although how much of that immense talent remains is debatable...
http://rimshots.freedomblogging.com/...re-comes-shaq/
It's official.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3234099
Sources: Shaq passes physical, traded to Suns in Marion deal
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: February 6, 2008, 5:51 PM ET
* Comment
Diesel will be chugging out West.
In one of the most improbable trades in NBA history, the Miami Heat traded Shaquille O'Neal to the Phoenix Suns on Wednesday for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, sources close to the situation told ESPN.com.
O'Neal had traveled to Phoenix Wednesday morning to take a physical, which he presumably passed.
Hollinger: Why Shaq?
The Suns have the best record in the West with their current roster. So why do they want to blow up the team, John Hollinger writes. Story
• Broussard: Crazy deal Insider
The Miami Herald first reported on its Web site Tuesday night that the Heat informed O'Neal that they were shopping him and that talks with the Suns were serious.
Marion and O'Neal were reportedly both in favor of the trade, with sources telling ESPN.com on Tuesday that the Heat center was eager to leave his deteriorating relationship with Miami coach Pat Riley.
O'Neal talked to Suns players including Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire, The Arizona Republic reported on Wednesday. "I will not let you down," O'Neal reportedly told Nash on the phone.
The Suns have been plagued by well-chronicled concerns about their chemistry for nearly two years, generally focusing on the occasional dissatisfaction voiced behind the scenes by either Marion or Stoudemire. In the locker room as well as the front office, sources told Stein, there are factions that have believed for some time that one of them would eventually have to be traded for the Suns to reach their full potential.
Marion asked to be traded before the season but has rarely mentioned that declaration since, with many Suns insiders believing that he went public with that request mostly as a protest response to being mentioned in trade rumors for years.
O'Neal turns 36 in March and has been plagued by a persistent hip problem that has cost him 14 games this season. He refused to speak with Miami reporters after Tuesday's practice, while Riley insisted that O'Neal would soon undergo an MRI after missing the Heat's past six games.
And when he has been healthy, O'Neal is averaging a career-worst 14.2 points and 7.8 rebounds, while the Heat's demise has deepened after they followed their historic comeback from 2-0 down against Dallas in the 2006 NBA Finals by absorbing a first-round sweep by Chicago last season.
Marion, a four-time All-Star, is averaging 15.6 points and 9.8 rebounds this season, while Banks is putting up 5.2 points and 1.0 assist per game.
ESPN.com senior NBA writer Marc Stein, ESPN The Magazine senior NBA writer Ric Bucher and and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Wow.
I guess that's that
The only way to know if it's going to work is to wait it out and see.
hahaha Phoenix ed themselves this year, I cant wait to hear what they about when they lose in the first round playoffs
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3234099
Associated Press
Updated: February 6, 2008, 6:16 PM ET
PHOENIX -- The Phoenix Suns have acquired Shaquille O'Neal in a stunning, blockbuster deal that sends four-time All-Star Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat.
The improbable pairing of the speedy Suns and the slow but once-mighty O'Neal became official when he cleared a physical exam Wednesday.
Thanks in part to injuries, Shaquille O'Neal's numbers are down significantly from his career averages this season. While his field goal percentage remains steady, the Big Aristotle's minutes, points and rebounds per game are well below his accustomed level of excellence.
The trade, a dramatic move by first-year Phoenix general manager Steve Kerr, signals an unexpected change in philosophy for the Suns, adding a 7-foot-1, 325-pound center who has won four NBA championships but has been plagued by injuries in recent years and turns 36 next month. O'Neal has been out with a hip injury and underwent an MRI exam in Miami on Tuesday. He flew to Phoenix on Wednesday for the physical.
O'Neal has averaged 25.6 points and 11.5 rebounds in his 14-plus NBA seasons.
This season, plagued by injuries and going through a divorce, he's averaging 14.2 points. His 14-year streak as an All-Star choice came to an end this year.
He missed much of the 2006-07 season with a knee injury and finished that year with career-lows in games (40), scoring (17.3 points), rebounds (7.4), minutes (28.4) and free-throw percentage (.422).
Phoenix gambled he will be healthy and more motivated when he moves to the desert.
For the three-plus seasons since Steve Nash came to town, the speedy Suns have been darlings of NBA fans grown weary of the slow style that has prevailed for years. But the Suns have fallen short in the playoffs, never making it to the finals.
Marion, weary of being third fiddle to Nash and Amare Stoudemire, asked to be traded before the season began. He didn't get his wish and, although he refused to talk publicly about it, remained unhappy with his role.
Still, his talents fit well with the fast-paced style that coach Mike D'Antoni wanted, especially with his ability to finish on a fast break. He also was the team's best defender, guarding everyone from Tony Parker to Yao Ming. Marion, who has spent all of his 8½ NBA seasons with Phoenix, made the All-Star team five times, including the last three seasons.
This year, though, he failed to make it, while Nash and Stoudemire did. Marion has an NBA career averages of 18.4 points and 10 rebounds per game. This season he's averaging 15.8 points and 9.9 boards.
The Suns have the best record in the West (34-14) but have not played up to their own expectations. Their interior defense is among the NBA's worst. Kerr apparently felt that without a large presence inside, Phoenix could not combat the big men, such as Andrew Bynum and Tim Duncan, in the playoffs.
With O'Neal on the court, Stoudemire can play his more natural power forward position.
O'Neal's move west adds fuel to the already intense rivalry between the Suns, the Lakers and his old teammate Kobe Bryant.
The trade required a significant financial commitment from the budget-conscious owner Robert Sarver because O'Neal is scheduled to make $20 million this season and $20 million more each of the next two.
Marion makes $16.4 million this year and could opt out of the $17 million final year of his contract after this season. Banks has been in and out of the Suns' rotation the past two seasons.
O'Neal entered this season talking about how he wanted to win at least one more le, saying his "legacy" wouldn't be complete unless he left the game with at least five rings.
The Heat, though, have lost 19 of their last 20 games and have the NBA's worst record at 9-37.
Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press
It's like Phoenix dropped a safe on their own heads.
we are done!
Transcript:
Here we go, go, let's go, let's go, let's go... [clapping]C'mon baby let's go, c'mon, let's go[/clapping]... C'mor guy ga we can't get tired, tired is not in our vocabulary, let's go.
Wow.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
