The Manu Doesn't Believe in God Thread

[Shastafarian]

They poo poo the lack of a scientific explanation or description in these ancient texts, ignorant of the fact that these texts were written before the existence of science...

That is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

[DPG21920]

Paging rapping David Robinson, paging rapping David Robinson

[tp2021]

Rappin' Shaq and some P<S photoshops would elevate this thread to legendary win.

[remingtonbo2001]

Paging rapping David Robinson, paging rapping David Robinson

Only to set the stage for the rapping prophets.

[DPG21920]

Ha ha

[whottt]

Again, an infant is without the capacity to make such decisions.

A feral child is not an infant. A feral child is a child that developed largely outside of human contact.

A feral child has the same brain capacity as a normal child who believes in religion...

They have brains, they have brain activity, they have human brains with the capacity to believe in god...


So why don't they?

Your whole point is made moot by this point that I made earlier:



A conscious belief.

No, my point of it being a product of advanced intelligence is made valid by you, every single time you point out my examples are lacking in intelligence or mental capacity one way or another...



Ultimately, it doesn't take a mental capacity to not believe in something...

But let's keep going with this...


I await your response on why the Feral Child does not believe in God or posses spiritual beliefs...

[Xylus]

A feral child is not an infant. A feral child is a child that developed largely outside of human contact.

A feral child has the same brain capacity as a normal child who believes in religion...

They have brains, they have brain activity, they have human brains with the capacity to believe in god...


So why don't they?






No, my point of it being a product of advanced intelligence is made valid by you, every single time you point out my examples are lacking in intelligence or mental capacity one way or another...



Ultimately, it doesn't take a mental capacity to not believe in something...

But let's keep going with this...


I await your response on why the Feral Child does not believe in God...

Give up, whottt. I've already beaten you, much like the dead horse you rode in on.

[ElNono]

No, you have misunderstood Pascal. The intellectual laziness is not in failing to declare that God presents himself in non-empirical ways. The laziness is in failing to ask whether, if God exists, how he might present himself. The skeptic is always questioning, and not taking shortcuts to a preconceived answer. The fallacy of the modern man is to fashion himself a skeptic simply because he refuses the indoctrination of his elders, not recognizing his own penchant for self-deception.

Of course, you have committed another fallacy which is not germane to the question at hand and therefore is only of secondary importance. While I do not believe Einstein was intellectually lazy in coming to his agnostic conclusions, because he obviously put some consideration into them beyond mere empiricism, it does not follow that simply because he is Albert Einstein and formulated the Theory of General Relativity, that he necessarily would put the same rigor into all his thoughts. For example, Richard Dawkins is a knowledgeable evolutionary biologist who tends toward cheap polemic when discussing his atheism. Your use of Einstein in this argument threatens to become an exercise in simple name-dropping.

I disagree. I believe I understood Pascal very clearly, and his dislike for non believers is crystal clear. And I think we all do, throughout our lives, take a moment to reflect and review our beliefs. I'm fairly sure Einstein was not alien to this. So I'm fairly sure he had contemplated the 'If god exists' question many times over throughout his life, and always reached the same conclusion.

I also think it's very dishonest to try to imply that because Einstein might not have put the same rigor in his scientific research than on his religious beliefs he can be construed as being intellectually lazy, which is basically what you're implying. The reality is that the man did not believe in God, much to your despair, and had much better things to do as a scientist than sit down and try to analyze why that was.

Lastly, you dropped the Pascal name first, along with his theory, and I simply brought Einstein as a person that refuted such theory.

[baseline bum]

Give up, whottt. I've already beaten you, much like the dead horse you rode in on.

Whottt never gives up when defeated. He's the master of the filibuster here at Spurstalk.

[Xylus]

Fine. I'll play this game.

A child's brain is developed in its infancy through interaction with other human beings. This is how it picks up the ability to speak a language, how it develops social behavior, how it learns to do "human" things. I think we can both agree that spirituality is a human creation, and thus must be learned. A Feral Child, if it hasn't been taught what spirituality/religion is, will simply not think of it. Thus, the capacity to make decisions about faith or atheism isn't programmed into the child's brain.

This doesn't make the child an atheist. It makes the child completely ignorant of such matters, since atheism is a conscious belief that no God exists.

[ElNono]

IOW...what these guys reject is their vision of religion...it's ironic though because all that proves me to me is that they have never actually gone to any great length to read the bible, and it's their own re ed view they reject.
You see even in Christianity, the Bible makes it pretty clear that God is most definitely not some old man sitting on throne in the clouds, or anything of that sort, the bible makes it pretty clear that a normal human being would not be able to understand what they saw if they were to see God.

Years of cathecism beg to differ... but keep on ranting and making a fool of yourself.

[DPG21920]

I guess it just boils down to if you are a believer and are wrong then you are no worse off. If you are a non-believer and are wrong you will be worse off. Just with regards to the proposition that is religion.

[ElNono]

I guess it just boils down to if you are a believer and are wrong then you are no worse off. If you are a non-believer and are wrong you will be worse off. Just with regards to the proposition that is religion.

This is actually a fallacy that I rebutted a long time ago... I can rehash it if you're curious...

[DPG21920]

This is actually a fallacy that I rebutted a long time ago... I can rehash it if you're curious...

I did not catch it, please do!

[whottt]

Fine. I'll play this game.

A child's brain is developed in its infancy through interaction with other human beings. This is how it picks up the ability to speak a language, how it develops social behavior, how it learns to do "human" things. I think we can both agree that spirituality is a human creation, and thus must be learned. A Feral Child, if it hasn't been taught what spirituality/religion is, will simply not think of it. Thus, the capacity to make decisions about faith or atheism isn't programmed into the child's brain.

This doesn't make the child an atheist. It makes the child completely ignorant of such matters, since atheism is a conscious belief that no God exists.

Doesn't have the capacity(being raised apart from humans)...got it.

So then how did religious as spiritual beliefs come into existence, since by your own words, they must be learned?

[ElNono]

I did not catch it, please do!

Well, basically, there are certain things you are forbidden to experience in life in order to ensure you're going to have that imaginary parcel of heaven when you die. People that do not believe in life after death have no problem living life at it's fullest, without preset religious limitations.

[Xylus]

Doesn't have the capacity(being raised apart from humans)...got it.

So then how did religious as spiritual beliefs come into existence, since by your own words, they must be learned?

Well religion didn't just pop up out of nowhere, just like the jet engine didn't pop out of nowhere. Probably through a series of ideas spread over centuries.

[whottt]

Anyway...

So what you are saying is, you have the capacity to have spiritual beliefs, to conceive of higher beings and believe they exist, you just elect not to do so? Am I right on that?


I mean, you could do it if you wanted to...right?

[ElNono]

Doesn't have the capacity(being raised apart from humans)...got it.

So then how did religious as spiritual beliefs come into existence, since by your own words, they must be learned?

What part of 'I think we can both agree that spirituality is a human creation' you didn't understand?

[Xylus]

Anyway...

So what you are saying is, you have the capacity to have spiritual beliefs, to conceive of higher beings and believe they exist, you just elect not to do so? Am I right on that?


I mean, you could do it if you wanted to...right?

Sure, if I wanted to believe, I would.


To be honest, I don't know a whole lot about feral children, and according to a couple of sources I've just consulted, there isn't a whole lot known about how the brain of a feral child works.

[whottt]

Sure, if I wanted to believe, I would.

Why don't you want to believe?

[Xylus]

Why don't you want to believe?

Because I think the belief in God is as rational as the belief in a humongous invisible purple elephant with wings that flies through the sky and farts out wind.

[ElNono]

Anyway...

So what you are saying is, you have the capacity to have spiritual beliefs, to conceive of higher beings and believe they exist, you just elect not to do so? Am I right on that?

I mean, you could do it if you wanted to...right?

So what you are saying is, you have the capacity to kill other human beings, to steal, murder and rape, you just elect not to do so? Am I right on that?

I mean, you could do it if you wanted to...right?

[DPG21920]

Well, basically, there are certain things you are forbidden to experience in life in order to ensure you're going to have that imaginary parcel of heaven when you die. People that do not believe in life after death have no problem living life at it's fullest, without preset religious limitations.

I kind of get what you are saying, but it seems like you are talking about things like fornication, drinking... being forbidden. I was referring to the principles outlined in the bible (love, respect...). You are saying people that do not engage in the "sins" are not living life to the fullest, I do not believe that is true. I believe that for society, if people just at least acted in accordance with the bibles principles, even if they do not believe in God, would make the world and life more enjoyable. There is noting forbidden really, especially because you are free to learn and do things. You can always ask for forgiveness. It is like the teenager who wants to have sex with every girl, but as you get older you realize that sex without love is fruitless. They still got to experience things, but realize that happiness changes as you grow up.

[whottt]

Because I think the belief in God is as rational as the belief in a humongous invisible purple elephant with wings that flies through the sky and farts out wind.

So are you saying you could believe in the existence of a purple elephant with wings that flies through the sky and farts out wind if you wanted to do so?