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AJ was an integral part of that first le team. People also seem to forget that he was a pretty damn solid point guard or that he was the one with the balls on the team when DRob and Elliott wilted in the pre-TD postseasons.
No . Spurs fans seem to think they've always been in the penthouse.
AJ was an integral part of that first le team. People also seem to forget that he was a pretty damn solid point guard or that he was the one with the balls on the team when DRob and Elliott wilted in the pre-TD postseasons.
Actually, the Lakers have a single banner that honors the 5-6 HoF players by number from the Minny days. Even though those numbers are not retired, they are honored with a banner.
So they treat the foundation of their championship history like the Spurs treat division championships. Nice.Actually, the Lakers have a single banner that honors the 5-6 HoF players by number from the Minny days. Even though those numbers are not retired, they are honored with a banner.
Geeze, make up our mind. You complained that they were not honored. When I point out to you that they are, you complain that it is not the right kind of honor.
Take note people...this is why AJ should never have had his jersey retired.
You OCD crack addled halfwit...
Just STFU...I think Rasho Nesteroivc got to the line more than AJ...that's heart for you.
You idea of heart is John Stockton having free regn to kick Drob in the balls 15 times per game, because a mere flinch from him is enough to keep AJ on the other side of the court.
David Robinson took one of the great physical poundings in NBA history his first 7 years in the NBA, comparable only to those recieved by Shaq and Wilt, in large part due to the sacks of lining up at guard for him...his career as a Superstar ended because he played through a hernia...he played his last 2 seasons with a back condition that left him with no feeling in his legs at times...and he was the guy guarding Shaq.
AJ's toughness consisted of picking fights with young players, in the shower, and out.
How dare you even put DROB and AJ in the same sentence when it comes to heart and toughness...
Being a bossy nag doesn't make you tough.
You ing crack brained AJ fans...
You think we wouldn't have won a le without AJ?
Turn in you ing brains...
If we'd had even a legitimate second string caliber NBA PG, we'd have won two.
David Robinson had more heart and tougness in his sleep than AJ ever had on his best day.
Just because he didn't define himself by becoming an NBA champion doesn't mean he didn't take the hits...
Drob took 10 times the pounding Duncan has taken to this point...
The biggest difference between DRob and Duncan?
Duncan would have told the Spurs to get him a ing real PG, instead of a borderline 3rd string piece of crap...or he was gone. In fact he did just that...
Now go switch nics...because it's what guys with heart and tougness do.
Last edited by whottt; 10-04-2007 at 10:29 PM.
Should George Mikan not be retired in the same manner as Wilt Chamberlain?Geeze, make up our mind. You complained that they were not honored. When I point out to you that they are, you complain that it is not the right kind of honor.
Mikan was the first marquee attraction in NBA history and the centerpiece of the first NBA dynasty. In some arenas, the marquee would read "George Mikan vs (__home team____)". The only dynasties in NBA history to win five les in six seasons are Mikan's Lakers and Russell's Celtics.
Yes, the talent level was a lot lower in the middle fifties compared the late sixties. Yes, the schedule was shorter. And yes, the playoffs weren't as long as they would become. But they dominated their compe ion to an almost unequaled degree. And for that, they and their les deserve to be on full display right alongside Wilt, Jabbar, West, Magic, 1972, 1980, 1982, and so on.
But that's not how they do it down there. Oh, but they sure like to claim fourteen les!
AJ was such an outstanding leader that the guy responsible for the Spurs les coudn't stand him and would likely be playing for the Magic if Avery had remained on the Spurs when he was a free agent.
Fail.
The Celtics have retired Don Freaking Nelson, Jim Freaking Loscutoff, and Cedric Freaking Maxwell.
Ainge will get his, guran-damn-tee.
it also wasnt the NBA. It was the BBA or the NBL and they were in another city.
Fact is that the Lakers got one thing right and that was to make retiring numbers mean something and not do it for scrubs.
statsitcally he was Travis Best and at his very best he played on a level with Stoudamire for a year.
You can call that solid and ill call it ty.
And as whott pointed out, johnsons idea of toughness was attacking naked men for holding hom accountable for his mistakes and generally being an asshole while Elliott played through uremic poisoning and DRob had a back condition that would cripple most men.
Johnson had one season where he was solid. Other than that he was awful. When your stats compare to Travis Best and a bunch of carreer backups then that player shouldnt be starting much less having their number retired.
Bruce Bowen's jersey # will be retired by the Spurs one day and his Spurs' career stats put him on par with Aaron McKie. Oh wait, McKie had better stats.
TD v AJ is one of the greatest forum urban legends.
Yes whottt, DRob couldn't carry a team on his own to a le. He's not the only NBA superstar and Top 50 player of all time in that category, so relax and stop clutching your stuffed Coyote doll.
Um, Loscutoff did not have his number retired. Even though he won 7 les with the team, his #18 was later worn by Dave Cowens. The Celtics retired #18 in honor of Cowens, not Loscutoff.
Cedric Maxwell was a Finals MVP, the Celtics All Time FG% Leader, and was arguably the biggest locker room guy of the two championship teams that he was on.
Don Nelson is a bit more subjective, but if the NBA and the Celtics consider him as one of the models of what would become the "sixth man", then who am I to argue. Oh, and he was on 5 le teams.
Why doesn't anyone question the Rockets retiring Drexler's number?
It be great to see AJ's number retired....then we beat the living snot out of the Mavs.
Look up in the rafters in Boston and see this:
They did this because Cowens had already worn the number after him. But it's an acknowledgment that they would have retired the number in honor of Loscutoff if Cowens hadn't worn it.
Also a coke user who left the Celtics on bad terms. But I guess you're saying stuff like that should override contributions to the team? I can agree with that. Hence, Avery.Cedric Maxwell was a Finals MVP, the Celtics All Time FG% Leader, and was arguably the biggest locker room guy of the two championship teams that he was on.
"Who are you to argue?" So then why are you arguing about the Spurs decision to retire Avery's number?Don Nelson is a bit more subjective, but if the NBA and the Celtics consider him as one of the models of what would become the "sixth man", then who am I to argue. Oh, and he was on 5 le teams.
Not to go too far off topic, but what's the story about taking #18 back off the shelf for Cowens and then hanging it up again? Had it been Cowens number all his life and he wouldn't play without it or what?
I like the idea of retiring nicknames.
They didn't take it off the shelf. They didn't make the decision to retire it until after they had already given the number to Cowens (and, if I recall correctly, by that time it was apparent that Cowens was eventually going to get his number reitred).
They might as well retire it. So, he just have to stare his jersey hangin' when his Mavs team play our SPURS.Join the SPURS team to get a ring. :p
1. Maybe because one happened 30 years ago in a different era of the game with one of the players that defined what is such an important role that the NBA gives an award to the player who best exemplifies that role for their team?
2. Outside of the leader intangible, being a really, really, really good guy who really, really, really worked his butt off to become an average NBA point guard, and being one of the 12 guys on the first championship team for the franchise, what else is there? I just KNOW that someone is going to try to use this same argument to get Malik's number in the rafters as well.
3. Just because Holt and Pop say it, doesn't mean it is right. I recall most everyone agreeing that the Scola trade this summer was one of their worst moves. If I would have agreed with them on that, I would have been labeled a dumbass. If I don't agree with them now, I am labeled a dumbass.
4. I didn't like AJ as an active player, and I don't like him any more just for posterity sake. Don't want to, don't have to, can't make me.
5. This is all fodder and filler until the games start. Heck, I would rather have threads that were hundreds of posts long discussing this with other Spurs fans who may passionately disagree with me than to read one more Scola thread.
Not sure that the Celtics would cave in that easily to a rookie...
That's precisely why I asked. The whole thing sounded kind of odd to me. I probably could have found this out on my own but I trust the BB IQ of those here more than Google.
Everything that I can find on the subject says that he declined to have his number retired so that future players could wear it. One would have to assume that it was not "un-retired" when Cowans was drafted, but rather was simply an available number. From all I can gather the #18 was never raised for Loscutoff, that the LOSCY banner was the original tribute.
Myth#1 being shoveled around frequently to boost AJ's case:
That AJ was a better PG than Moore. He wasn't. He was not a better PG than Johnny Moore. He also didn't have his career end in a tragic fashion(medically).
Johnny Moore is more deserving of jersey retirement than AJ. He was a more of a career Spur, he was a better PG, he is more sympathetic figure.
Myth #2:
That giving AJ's jersey to Manu was just an ooops.
Spurs knew in advance Manu wanted that number. They knew it was his number. They knew Manu was coming, they knew he was getting that number. They knew it was AJ's number. Pop knew it was AJ's number.
They also knew Manu had 15 thousand times the talent of AJ.
This isn't some case of giving a jersey out for practice(which incidentally, teams do often with potential retired jerseys)
Myth #3
That Don Harris perfectly executes the Spurs wishes.
This is the biggest load of crap to be served up in this thread...
Someone needs to listen to the Pop show sometime...
TPark could figure out that about 90% of the questions asked by Harris are going to annoy the out of Pop as stupid pointless questions, Pop has probably mentioned not to be asked these sorts of questions 15 trillion times off air...and Harris still asks them multiple times every show.
Even if it's true...Harris is an AJ fascist...these people cannot be trusted when it comes to AJ VS the Spurs. They chose AJ first every time...
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