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  1. #601
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    Shaq probably gets tired putting on his sneakers.

  2. #602
    99/03/05/07/14 Spurs Brazil's Avatar
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    So long, Suns, it's been fun

    The disappointment isn't because Phoenix failed to win a championship with small ball. It's because the Suns stopped trying.

    Trading Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for Shaquille O'Neal might be a full-scale (albeit bizarre) attempt to grab a ring, but it also is an admission of failure for their way of basketball. They just sided with the skeptics and said, "You're right, we can't run our way to the Finals."

    I'd rather see them go out like Tom Hanks in "Saving Private Ryan," pulling out his pistol and firing away at the German tank in a last desperate effort to save the bridge. Or show some of that same defiance as Denzel Washington in "American Gangster," making one last trip to Asia to import more heroin even though everybody's telling him the game is over.

    Instead the Suns conformed.

    I had a teacher who used to say revolution is impossible in a capitalistic society because any countercultural idea will quickly get bought up and mass-marketed and next thing you know Che Guevara t-shirts are going for $8.99.

    The same goes for the NBA. They have widened the lane, brought in the 3-point shot, made it illegal to hand-check speedy guards … and it's still as much a big man's game as it was in the days of George Mikan.

    The object is to get the best shot possible, and tall men dunking will always be the best option. If you wanted to win, that was the way to go. Michael Jordan ruled the 1990s, but the further we get away from that time the more of an aberration it seems and the more we can put to rest any comparisons to him. He won six rings with Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley at center. There's no other like him.


    [+] EnlargeDoug Pensinger/Getty Images

    In the half court, Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash will compete with Shaq for touches.
    For all others, the way to a championship is through the low post. Shaq and Tim Duncan have won eight of the past nine championships. Even when Magic and Bird were racking up rings they still had Hall of Fame centers in the paint.

    The inside game is not as fun, it's not as entertaining, but it's effective. In football, you win with defense and running; in baseball, you win with pitching. In life, you'd better eat your vegetables.

    Kobe Bryant and the Lakers tried to fight these essential truths, and it ended about as happily as Ot o. When Shaq was in L.A., the Lakers were better when the ball went through O'Neal, even if they were more boring. Besides, O'Neal provided plenty of entertainment before the cameras in the locker room. (He hasn't lost that touch, as he showed in a tribute to his alma mater before the BCS championship game.)

    It might have been hard to admit for the franchise that brought us Showtime, but no team was ever going to get another ultimate point guard like Magic Johnson surrounded by finishers such as James Worthy, Byron Scott and Michael Cooper. But the circus couldn't have gone on without Kareem Abdul-Jabbar keeping the tent up. When things slowed down, they could always go inside to the greatest scorer in the history of the game.

    Other teams (most notably Doug Moe's Denver Nuggets) tried to run without a true big man, but the Suns were our first viable alternative. Nutritious cotton candy. Maybe, just maybe, they could outrun everybody to the ring. Even this season, with some nagging injuries and lingering chemistry issues, they still had the best record in the Western Conference before they pulled the trigger on the trade.

    Perhaps it was the double-whammy of losing a home game to the depleted Spurs followed by the Lakers' acquisition of Pau Gasol the next day that spooked Suns GM Steve Kerr into action. The Suns got desperate. One involved party member called it "a last-ditch play."


    All you need to know about this deal is that it doesn't fit the Headline Rule. That in itself should raise more red flags than a NASCAR race at Martinsville.

    The Headline Rule dictates that the NBA team that gets the player in the headline automatically wins the trade. It was "Lakers Get Gasol," not "Kwame Traded to Grizzlies." Clear advantage: Lakers.

    In this case, the news was Shaq got traded. But the people who think the Suns are better off for this move are in the minority. The more common reaction was: What were they thinking?

    O'Neal doesn't fit the Suns' style or their payroll plans.

    Some argue that Shaq can play the role of ex-Sun Kurt Thomas: rebounding and guarding the likes of Tim Duncan. If that's the case then why didn't they just keep Kurt Thomas at $8 million a year instead of taking on Shaq's contract at $20 million per through 2010?

    And that way it wouldn't have cost them Marion. As much as anyone, Marion enabled the Suns to be the Suns. He could defend a variety of positions, he could start and finish fast breaks and he could hit open three-pointers. Everything they needed and wanted to do, he could provide. While Steve Nash got the acclaim and Amare Stoudemire got the dunks, Marion got the critical offensive rebounds.


    [+] EnlargeBarry Gossage/NBAE via Getty Images

    Along with Nash's vision, Marion's all-around prowess provided the Suns their unique iden y.
    No, Marion can't guard Duncan. But at the rate Shaq has picked up fouls this season, he might last only 20 minutes against the Quiet Storm. That's assuming O'Neal can get on the court. He played in only four games last month. He'll turn 36 next month.

    Some speculate the trade will motivate and rejuvenate him the way his exile from L.A. did in 2004. Surely the chance to squash Kobe's championship dreams should be good for a few extra reps in the weight room. But maybe his body can't keep up with his ego anymore. In this case the fall could goeth before pride.

    But even if he's slower, even if he can't jump as high, he's still 7-foot-1. You don't need to scheme or create a special offense for 7-foot-1.

    Even Don Nelson, the ultimate oddball, took a nod toward tradition when he brought back Chris Webber. Like Shaq with the Suns, Webber's slower game doesn't appear to fit with the Warriors' style. But perhaps Golden State decided it need more passes to and from the post than threes being launched from the hash mark.

    If the Suns really wanted to take things to the extreme they would have signed Earl Boykins and set him loose in the backcourt with Leandro Barbosa. Instead they've gone the other way, toward the norm, toward the pack.

    La revolución está muerta.


    J.A. Adande is the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." He joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here to e-mail J.A.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ge=Suns-080206

  3. #603
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    If people want to know why the Suns made this trade, it is summed up in this one fact:

    Shaq and Tim Duncan have won eight of the past nine championships.

  4. #604
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    ...
    Although O'Neal has been out with a hip injury, there is a belief that he will pass the physical because he is in great condition and is said to be at 312 pounds (down from his listed 325 pounds) with low body fat.

    He seems to be a motivated player too, having jumped on a plane this morning after talking to several of the Suns, such as Steve Nash and Amaré Stoudemire, on Tuesday night.

    "I will not let you down," O'Neal told Nash on the phone.
    ...

    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...haqlatest.html


    @ the Suns. Shaq sucks! Sweep!!!!


  5. #605
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    If people want to know why the Suns made this trade, it is summed up in this one fact:

    Shaq and Tim Duncan have won eight of the past nine championships.
    And they will until the end of time.

  6. #606
    I will not be mishandled MI21's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm very late on all this. Shaq to the Suns, wtf?

    Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Stoudamire, Shaq.

    Unguardable.

  7. #607
    Believe.
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    T Park wins.

    Thank you come again.

    T-Park - Were you serious about Parker dropping 45 points because Marion's gone? You truly are a delusional spurs fan. Raja Bell will guard Parker, Barbosa can guard parker, DJ Strawberry can guard parker and Amare's greatest strength is coming from the weak side to swat that crap.

    The only 45 he's putting up is 45K for Eva's valenties day jewelry.

  8. #608
    I'm your huckleberry K-State Spur's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm very late on all this. Shaq to the Suns, wtf?

    Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Stoudamire, Shaq.

    Unguardable.
    also unable to guard. there is bell and then 4 awful defenders.

  9. #609
    Good to Great hsxvvd's Avatar
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    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

    "There's not as much pressure now, as far as being that center position, that center stopper," Stoudemire said. "I've been playing out of position for four years now. Now I'm back at my natural position. Shaq is the best at his and I'm the best at mine, so it's going to be a great opportunity for us."



  10. #610
    Good to Great hsxvvd's Avatar
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  11. #611
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    Barbosa can guard parker

    excuse me while i pick myself up off the floor after laughing so hard.

    DJ Strawberry can guard parker

    Excuse me, had to do it again.

    @ DJ Strawberry


    Although O'Neal has been out with a hip injury, there is a belief that he will pass the physical because he is in great condition and is said to be at 312 pounds (down from his listed 325 pounds) with low body fat.

    He seems to be a motivated player too, having jumped on a plane this morning after talking to several of the Suns, such as Steve Nash and Amaré Stoudemire, on Tuesday night.

    "I will not let you down," O'Neal told Nash on the phone....

    Yeah, thats bad....

  12. #612
    33-49 Xylus's Avatar
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  13. #613
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    My initial reaction was this trade was a horrible trade for the Suns. Shaq for three years and $60M while at the same time giving up Marion? Sounds bad.

    But now after thinking about it some more, I see how it makes sense. The Suns, how they are built now, aren't going to win a championship. As constructed, they've already peaked and are on the way down. The chemistry is bad and getting worse. Not only that, with the Lakers getting Gasol -- that moved them past the Suns in the championship contender list. The Suns couldn't guard Bynum alone ... how would they guard Bynum and Gasol? Out of everyone in the West, the Gasol trade hurt the Suns the most.

    Now obviously Shaq is past is prime and has gotten injured a lot ... but you have Shaq on your team, you have a chance at a championship. Period. Even if Shaq can be 75% of what he was, he can still be a dominant force. Put him on a team with a point guard that can get him the ball, a power forward that will make it impossible to double-team him with a big and solid veteran role players and the Suns will be legit championship contenders. Plus they'd be losing Marion who is probably the most overrated player of this generation.

    People can question Shaq all they want but a motivated Shaq is the last player I want the Spurs to go against in a seven game series. He can guard Duncan as well as anyone ever has. When motivated, he has always been underrated as far as clogging up the lane by himself defensively. Parker and Manu will have a tough time getting to the rim and scoring with Mt. Shaq taking up so much room.
    Bump.


  14. #614
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Oh and where are all the Spur Fans who said Shaq was done, couldn't rebound, couldn't guard Duncan, couldn't clog the lane, etc?


  15. #615
    Damn You Commies T Park's Avatar
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    God I hate it when your right.

  16. #616
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Oh and where are all the Spur Fans who said Shaq was done, couldn't rebound, couldn't guard Duncan, couldn't clog the lane, etc?



  17. #617
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    This begs the question, if Shaq goes to Phoenix, do the Spurs wish they still had Rasho??

  18. #618
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Spurs are fine. We can hang with this Suns team.

    I'll take Rasho back if he ever gets a contract that matches his actual worth.

  19. #619
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Shaq would have had 50 points and 25 rebounds on Rasho.

  20. #620
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    at the weak bump.


    Suns have been bad with Shaq and it's not a game where Shaq was more motivated than the whole Spurs team that will change that.

    We will see in playoffs what will happen...

  21. #621
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Spurs are fine. We can hang with this Suns team.
    And they couldn't hang with the other Suns team?

  22. #622
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    And they couldn't hang with the other Suns team?
    Sure they could. WTF are we supposed to do? Curl up into a ball and die?

  23. #623
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    at the weak bump.


    Suns have been bad with Shaq and it's not a game where Shaq was more motivated than the whole Spurs team that will change that.

    We will see in playoffs what will happen...
    Oh so now Spur Fan is going to pull the "Shaq was motivated" card when they dismissed the possibility of him being motivated going to PHX? Gotcha.















    P.S.

    Nice guaranteed Hornets win over Rockets.


  24. #624
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Sure they could. WTF are we supposed to do? Curl up into a ball and die?
    If you are speaking about "we" as in Spurs fans, I'd think a good first step would not being overconfident and claim repeatedly that Shaq and the Suns are done. Read the thread and see how many Spurs fans scoffed at the mention of Shaq being able to do anything.

  25. #625
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Oh so now Spur Fan is going to pull the "Shaq was motivated" card when they dismissed the possibility of him being motivated going to PHX? Gotcha.

    Link of me saying that Shaq wasn't motivated ?

    P.S.

    Nice guaranteed Hornets win over Rockets.

    It's not like Hornets were playing without their all start PF.

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