Official Referee Whining Thread (I have merged over 10 threads here)

[whottt]

And yet, the whining only starts up when the Spurs lose and the fans realize that the opposing team went to the line more than they did and the series is 2-1 in favor of the opposing team. Why not talk about officiating every night since it's the same refs rotating throughout the series?

The officiating doesn't suck every night....

Contrary to what you may think...we don't whine about the officiating after every loss...well, Flash Gordon does but he's about the only one.

I can't recall any mass whining about the losses to the Kings...more like, these guys are whipping our asses.

That is not what is happening here...well game 2 was an asskicking but it was also really ty officiating.

[ponky]

The officiating doesn't suck every night....

Contrary to what you may think...we don't whine about the officiating after every loss...well, Flash Gordon does but he's about the only one.

I can't recall any mass whining about the losses to the Kings...more like, these guys are whipping our asses.

That is not what is happening here...well game 2 was an asskicking but it was also really ty officiating.

I just don't like any whining about the refs being the cause of a loss. I understand complaining about some officiating but it's sorry to blame the refs for an actual loss. I know there are lots of Spurs fans who don't do that but look how long this thread is, ridiculous!!! ty calls happen in every game on BOTH sides. In this series we haven't seen the type of game winning foul/no call that decides a game, like the Lebron traveling last game shot. Frustration sets in and people blame the easiest scapegoat for the loss, thre refs. I understand though, my s.o. does the same thing!

[SA Gunslinger]

The officiating doesn't suck every night....

Contrary to what you may think...we don't whine about the officiating after every loss...well, Flash Gordon does but he's about the only one.

I can't recall any mass whining about the losses to the Kings...more like, these guys are whipping our asses.

That is not what is happening here...well game 2 was an asskicking but it was also really ty officiating.

Right on. I can't really think of any mass criticism of the refs from last season. In '03, game four against the Lakers and game one against the Mavs are the only games I can think of that spawned this kind of uproar.

[ponky]

Right on. I can't really think of any mass criticism of the refs from last season. In '03, game four against the Lakers and game one against the Mavs are the only games I can think of that spawned this kind of uproar.

Wow, imagine that. The Lakers evened up the series with that win and won their second straight after being down 0-2 and the Mavs took home court from the Spurs with that first game. No wonder there was an uproar...at least on spurstalk.

[whottt]

Wow, imagine that. The Lakers evened up the series with that win and won their second straight after being down 0-2

Um the uproar over that was because a DPOY, MVP, 8 time ALL NBA Defense, HOF'er, first man in history to finish in the top 5 in blocks, boards and steals, was fouled out of the game in 12 minutes of play....on completely bogus calls.

12 minutes of play...you think about that for a second.

and the Mavs took home court from the Spurs with that first game. No wonder there was an uproar...at least on spurstalk.

That was because the officiating sucked...not because the Mavs won...We lost HC to the Nuggets last year, no one blamed the officiating.


Look...I realize you guys gaining the upperhand against us in anything is like the pinnacle of Mav achievements, but what you must realize, not every team has been our shankass to the degree that the Mavs have...lots of teams have drawn even in a series with us, lots of teams have stolen HC from us, lots of teams have gained the upperhand in a series against us...

Just because you have been our doesn't mean every other team has...in fact it's quite rare for one team to be anothers to the degee that the Mavs have been ours...

So no...while this is a big deal to you, it isn't to us, and the uproar over the officiating is because...it did suck.

The officiating sucked, it's just that simple. I personally don't blame the officiating for losing that game...We had a chance to win it and Harris stole the ball. But to defend the officiating as being fair, or equal, just shows how biased you are. And it's got nothing to do with FT differential. At least to me.

The officiating was not good...and I can even find some quotes by LakerFans, our actual rivals, not our es, saying we got hosed.

[ponky]

Um the uproar over that was because a DPOY, MVP, 8 time ALL NBA Defense, HOF'er, first man in history to finish in the top 5 in blocks, boards and steals, was fouled out of the game in 12 minutes of play....on completely bogus calls.

12 minutes of play...you think about that for a second.




That was because the officiating sucked...not because the Mavs won...We lost HC to the Nuggets last year, no one blamed the officiating.


Look...I realize you guys gaining the upperhand against us in anything is like the pinnacle of Mav achievements, but what you must realize, not every team has been our shankass to the degree that the Mavs have...lots of teams have drawn even in a series with us, lots of teams have stolen HC from us, lots of teams have gained the upperhand in a series against us...

Just because you have been our doesn't mean every other team has...in fact it's quite rare for one team to be anothers to the degee that the Mavs have been ours...

So no...while this is a big deal to you, it isn't to us, and the uproar over the officiating is because...it did suck.

The officiating sucked, it's just that simple. I personally don't blame the officiating for losing that game...We had a chance to win it and Harris stole the ball. But to defend the officiating as being fair, or equal, just shows how biased you are. And it's got nothing to do with FT differential. At least to me.

The officiating was not good...and I can even find some quotes by LakerFans, our actual rivals, not our es, saying we got hosed.

LOL, "pinnacle of achievements" HAHAHA! The Spurs are a great team but for us they are just a stepping stone to the promised land. If you're going to talk ball leave out the puerile comments, they sound a bit weak. You try very hard to come up with a lot of filler about the why this happened or why that happened but in the end it all boils down to whining about refs sucking. Either talk ball or don't, I don't care.

[SA Gunslinger]

Wow, imagine that. The Lakers evened up the series with that win and won their second straight after being down 0-2 and the Mavs took home court from the Spurs with that first game. No wonder there was an uproar...at least on spurstalk.

As whottt posted, the Admiral was shown no respect. The Lakers were given this game on silver platter similar to what happened on Saturday night.

Game Four 2003 - West Semis - Spurs at Lakers

 SAS                      MP  FG FGA  TP TPA  FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS
+-----------------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 Bruce Bowen              34   3   5   3   3   0   0   0   1   1   1   0   1   0   3   9
 Tim Duncan               40  10  17   0   2  16  20   1   8   9   5   0   0   3   5  36
 Stephen Jackson          39   6  16   3   6   0   0   0  10  10   0   0   0   5   1  15
 Tony Parker              43   6  17   1   3   1   2   0   4   4   4   1   0   2   3  14
 David Robinson           14   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   3   3   1   0   1   1   6   0
 Speedy Claxton            5   0   1   0   0   0   0   1   1   2   2   0   0   0   0   0
 Danny Ferry               2   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   1   0
 Manu Ginobili            23   4   9   2   4   3   4   2   2   4   4   1   0   0   3  13
 Malik Rose               25   1   4   0   0   0   0   2   2   4   0   0   0   0   5   2
 Kevin Willis             15   3   4   0   0   0   0   3   1   4   1   0   0   2   4   6
+-----------------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 Total                   240  33  74   9  18  20  26   9  32  41  18   2   2  14  31  95

 LAL                      MP  FG FGA  TP TPA  FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS
+-----------------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 Kobe Bryant              40  10  24   1   4  14  17   2   5   7   3   2   1   2   5  35
 Derek Fisher             43   6  12   2   4   3   3   1   2   3   1   3   0   1   2  17
 Devean George            40   3   5   3   4   0   0   0   4   4   3   0   0   2   3   9
 Robert Horry             25   0   4   0   1   0   0   0   3   3   0   0   1   1   4   0
 Shaquille O'Neal         45   6  17   0   0  17  23  10   7  17   5   2   4   3   2  29
 Mark Madsen              11   0   2   0   0   0   0   0   2   2   0   0   1   0   4   0
 Stanislav Medvedenko      5   1   2   0   0   1   2   0   1   1   0   0   0   0   0   3
 Jannero Pargo             5   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   3   1   0
 Kareem Rush               1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0
 Brian Shaw               14   2   5   2   3   0   0   0   4   4   1   0   0   1   1   6
 Samaki Walker            11   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   1   0   0   1   0   4   0
+-----------------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 Total                   240  28  71   8  16  35  45  13  29  42  14   7   8  13  26  99

[whottt]

LOL, "pinnacle of achievements" HAHAHA! The Spurs are a great team but for us they are just a stepping stone to the promised land. If you're going to talk ball leave out the puerile comments, they sound a bit weak.

Not as weak as your 2003 FTA differential stats....

Pssst...had you been a fan back then...

You'd have known the Don Nelson was deliberately ordering fouls called on Bruce Bowen. Guess what...when you deliberately order fouls called on a player, you will usually wind up on the short end of the FTA log...That disparity is not great enough if you ask me.

LMAO I think one game Nellie started fouling Bowen in the third quarter.

Had to have been a fan back then I guess.


Secondly...
IF you were an NBA fan of any length you would know that it is standard SOP for the trailing team to begin fouling the leading team at some point in the final minute of a playoff game. Especially when it's a crap FT shooting team like the Spurs....not necessarily whnen it is a great FT shooting team like the Mavs. All things being equal...the winning team usually should have a FT margin if the game was close....all thing were not equal in 03.


Yes you have been owned...in a way so bad it will be years before you truly realize just how bad.

Trust me...someday, on your Mavs board, you will be arguing with someone who you think is just a total idiot....You'll suddenly realize that this clown is making the same arguments you made before you understood the game...

You'll smile to yourself, remind yourself that you were once as stupid as he, you'll think back of how badly I ripped your ass, and how you didn't realize it at the time, you'll be greatful that those days are long past you, and no one really remembers this absolute destruction but you........and then you'll proceed to rip that new guy a new hole like I have just done to you and your Mav brethren(albeit not with my panache).

Congrats...you are now smarter about basketball for having argued with me, and smarter than 99% of the other Mavs fans on this board.. No thanks necessary. Just please try to improve the quality of your takes on my board and keep your own from making fools of your fan base.

And no, FT differential still isn't a good way of judging offiiciating.

[island_dude]

Tim just said that in the post game conference.

'He didn't touch me, I didn't touch him. I was just getting out of the way when he was trying to create contact. There was zero contact on that play.'

Does Tim Duncan think he's ever commited a foul in his entire NBA career?

[island_dude]

World Champions don't use officiating as an excuse for losses, Period!
The Spurs had an opportunity to win the game, and blew it on the Horry Gino turnover.

By the way since you all seem the think Timmy was robbed on that call. How does it feel when the shoe's on the other foot? Timmy has been getting those type calls for years, yet Spurs fans can't handle it when it's turned the other way.

[ctpsb]

Does Tim Duncan think he's ever commited a foul in his entire NBA career?

Yes -- only when he knows the call was bogus does he say something.

When the Mavs are getting two points NO MATTER WHAT every possession in the fourth quarter against a team that has played some of the best defense over the last three years -- something is wrong and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

[island_dude]

Yes -- only when he knows the call was bogus does he say something.

When the Mavs are getting two points NO MATTER WHAT every possession in the fourth quarter against a team that has played some of the best defense over the last three years -- something is wrong and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

Duncan gets his "deer in the headlights" look everytime he's whistled for a foul. Gimme a break!

[picnroll]

I guess then we'll all be happy, Mavs' and Spurs' fans alike, if tonights game is reffed the same as game three but with the calls by the refs reversed, particularly those at the end of the game.

[DampierAmGod]

I guess then we'll all be happy, Mavs' and Spurs' fans alike, if tonights game is reffed the same as game three but with the calls by the refs reversed, particularly those at the end of the game.

It's not the Mavs fault that Pop coached a bad quarter and didn't call some aggressive plays. But yea, you can switch whatever you want with the calls. Give us 2 bull flop calls like Manu got and give Harris 2 calls when no one even touches him like Parker got late in the game to keep us in it and give us 2 chances to win it at the end and I am confident we will not commit a turnover or have to put up a prayer shot, we'll come through.

[picnroll]

Good. I'd like to see the Mavs win it from te field not the line.

btw Awesome crunch time defense. How many stops did that vaunted Mav defnse get in the last five minutes?

[ctpsb]

Duncan gets his "deer in the headlights" look everytime he's whistled for a foul. Gimme a break!

Look we can go back and forth on this. I'll say no he doesn't and you'll say yes he does. It doesn't really matter. You can look at all my prior posts and I will never blame the officials for a loss. I didn't blame them for Game 2 or any Sacramento series loss or any series last year except one -- that was Game 4 of the Denver series last year.

I know you will say yes just to win this arguement but you really can't honestly believe that the Mavericks were good enough to draw a foul almost every and I mean every time down the floor against a defense that has stopped Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Jason Kidd, etc.

I mean 50 free throws!! Come on you can't be serious there is something wrong here.

[SPARKY]

It's not the Mavs fault that Pop coached a bad quarter and didn't call some aggressive plays. But yea, you can switch whatever you want with the calls. Give us 2 bull flop calls like Manu got and give Harris 2 calls when no one even touches him like Parker got late in the game to keep us in it and give us 2 chances to win it at the end and I am confident we will not commit a turnover or have to put up a prayer shot, we'll come through.

I'm confident you have no clue about what you see when you watch a game.

[ctpsb]

It's not the Mavs fault that Pop coached a bad quarter and didn't call some aggressive plays. But yea, you can switch whatever you want with the calls. Give us 2 bull flop calls like Manu got and give Harris 2 calls when no one even touches him like Parker got late in the game to keep us in it and give us 2 chances to win it at the end and I am confident we will not commit a turnover or have to put up a prayer shot, we'll come through.

We are not talking about one or two calls.

50 free throws!!

[picnroll]

We are not talking about one or two calls.

50 free throws!!

Should have been 80. Right DampierAmGod?

[leemajors]

82 fts shot in one game by both teams = ridiculous.

[island_dude]

Like I said the Spurs had their chance a the end of the game, and choked. As a Mavs fan I've been accustomed to seeing it the other way, so it was nice to see it happen to the other team for a change.

I think we can all agree that the officiating in the NBA is out of control, and has way too much influence over the outcome of games. That said, I still believe the best team will come out of this series as the winner. We still have a long way to go before that is determined.

[DampierAmGod]

Good. I'd like to see the Mavs win it from te field not the line.

btw Awesome crunch time defense. How many stops did that vaunted Mav defnse get in the last five minutes?

Who said the Mavs D was "vaunted"

And hey, looked to me like they made 2 defensive plays to win the game when it mattered. btw awesome crunch time offense. Crappy inbound, a turnover and a crappy play drawn up.

[ctpsb]

Like I said the Spurs had their chance a the end of the game, and choked. As a Mavs fan I've been accustomed to seeing it the other way, so it was nice to see it happen to the other team for a change.

I think we can all agree that the officiating in the NBA is out of control, and has way too much influence over the outcome of games. That said, I still believe the best team will come out of this series as the winner. We still have a long way to go before that is determined.

I agree with that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Whatever the state of the officiating, the Spurs would do themselves a world of good to rediscover the bunker mentality that has served them well in previous le runs.

Just play the game and don't worry about the officiating.

[SPARKY]

Whatever the state of the officiating, the Spurs would do themselves a world of good to rediscover the bunker mentality that has served them well in previous le runs.

Just play the game and don't worry about the officiating.

I agree. I'd also add that Pop's ability to morph his team to complete its objective is looking fairly good. One call or bounce the other way and the Spurs would be looking at a 2-1 lead. AJ's big adjustment has been addressed.