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Lakers beating OKC with Stern supporting Westbrick's team.
TheMagicKingdom
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject:
Kobe is more useful for the Lakers in a hospital bed than when he is on a court TBH Back to top
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewt...253251#5253251
MJ chase?
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Does it count in Kobe's ring count?
I know he will get a ring as part of the team but will his critics give him credit in his MJ chase?
Thread about the chances of Lebron James coming to LA gets a few nerves rattled, moderator has to step in http://forums.lakersground.net/viewt...r=asc******=25
JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 10521
Everyone take a deep breath and play nicely, please. Back to top
the chase will be hard with a busted achilles #corkedvino #countonHGHMJ chase?
Pardon the interruption, but can any of you Popsuckers confirm the below?
ksat's facebook posted the news, and in the comments, someone wrote "Pop asked, Jackson if, he thought if, he was better than Manu & Danny Green? He said, " yeah" Pop told him, "that's your problem, you don't know your role". Then they got into a heated argument." that person was asked how they knew this, and she wrote that her son was at the barbershop, and overheard Jackson say that. ...........take it for what it's worth
They have a meltdown thread complaining about Spurstalk
The delusion and overall butt-hurtedness over there is astounding.
le:
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=160021
Lakers95 has got to be one of the most idiotic posters I've ever seen. "...and that's just ONE thread!
You could cut the jealousy they have for the Lakers with a knife. It's SCARY how pathetic they are."
Yeah it's most likely true. We know this because Stephen Jackson made an instagram post that basically confirmed it:
"Thanks to all my fans for the support and love. I would never say a player is better than me when I know their not. Not for no one. #uandiknowwhatsgoingon
#keeponpushin"
Agree with Jax in this case. I'm no Jax fanboy, but he's definitely a better player than Danny Green who is worthless outside of his spot up shooter and a guy who plays 1 out of every 10 games and is a threat to break a bone or pull a muscle while ordering take out.
Sounds like a fantastic site.
Jack was the only Alpha Male on the Spurs' roster. You guys have some skillfully talented players, but they're all finesse (AKA soft) and mentally weak. That's why in 2011, when Memphis was pushing your in, players like TP laid down and just took it. That's also why you guys haven't repeated. Scouting report: lay TP on his ass a few times and he'll be tentative if he dare goes through the lane again.
Pop knows this - that's why he is sitting key players against true contenders (Heat game earlier this year comes to mind)... Or sitting TD, TP, & KL against GS on the 2nd night of b2b. I can see TD (to an extent), but not TP - and certainly not 21-year old KL. Why did he sit them? What message is he sending the team? I think it's clear. You guys just lost to a Kobe-less Laker team. If y'all lost a 2nd straight game to a playoff team, it will mess with your team's psyche.
Pop should have played his top guns. They should be "locked in" as the 2nd season nears. They need some mental toughness but Pop is robbing them of that necessary element all contenders must go thru before they become champions.
Jack was absolutely right. He is better than those other guys. He's a champion. Instead of Pop realizing that and respecting that his vet was right, he cowardly sent Jack packing instead of admitting he was wrong.
PJ dealt with way more drama when he was our coach. He didn't resort to the BS Pop just pulled. When the chips are down for you guys - and they will be - who is gonna be there with TD and fight? Jack would have been. Oh well.
Other than that stupid comment, I agree with everything else you said, to an extent (sitting players during the Heat game and Pop's kid glove handling of his players. TD I can understand, since he's 37 and has bad knees, but there's no excuse getting overly cautious with the young guys). Disagree about the GS game. Any good coach is sitting his best players there. Spurs already locked up their seed. Nothing to play for. And if that game did anything for the team's psyche and confidence, it boosted Neal's, something he needed.
I thought that comment would catch your attention. I believe it's true though. You have to be mentally tough to repeat as champions. There is a reason why not too many teams have done it.
But we'll have to disagree about the GS game. You want your main players playing - even if it is for a few minutes and then sit them - to keep them sharp and ready to go. My boys (self-inflicted) have been essentially playing in playoff mode since the all star break. They're on edge. They're backs are against the wall (literally). Your boys OTOH have their seed locked up, but they absolutely have something to play for IMO. You don't want them in the mindset that they have nothing to play for. This leads to complacency. You have to constantly put challenges out there for them. That's what PJ used to do to the Shaq/Kobe teams.
I keep thinking about that GS game. Let's say they lose to GS with all your big guns playing. So what? This is an opportunity to teach the young inexperienced guys on your roster mental toughness. You're Big 3 has been through the battles and have rang. This was an opportunity lost to get your young guys battle tested. B2B game against a playoff team. This is how you get them ready to see who has the cajones to support your Big 3. PJ would have never rested Kobe or Shaq down the stretch. He wanted to keep them sharp as the playoffs drew closer. You don't have to "ratchet up" playoff intensity if you have been playing all along. It's hard to do that if your guys have been sitting. I guess that's the difference between Pop and PJ.
More franchises have repeated than have won 4 or more rings. The Spurs failing to repeat has nothing to do with their lack of mental toughness. Duncan was injured in '00. Derek Fisher hits the luckiest shot in NBA history in 04. And the Mavs just flat out played better than the Spurs in '06. You can say Manu's re ed foul was an example of a lack of mental toughness. But his previous 3 to put the Spurs up was a mentally tough feat as they come. So it balances it out.
But I understand Lakerfans obsession with repeats. Ever since Red disparaged the early 80s Lakers les with the comment "You're not a champion until you repeat," Lakerfans have been overly concerned with repeats. Celtics always find a way to mind you guys, don't they? In the end, it's about the overall count. And I wouldn't trade the Spurs 4 les for a 3 peat any day of the week. To bounce back and win a le after failing to defend shows a great degree of mental toughness, especially doing it 3 times. How many 1 and done, and 2 and done champs have there been throughout the years?
I still disagree about playing the top guys in the GS game. Pop had your mentality of "keeping guys sharp" in '11, playing Manu in a meaningless game against Phoenix, and he broke his arm. I agree with your primary point, but the GS game is a bad example. The Spurs are superthin right now and can't afford one more injury to a starter, especially Duncan or Parker.
Such misguided analysis..as much as people don't want to admit it so much of the outcome of games is due to luck. The ball doesn't get tipped out to Horry, Kings probably win..pass to Fisher is defended differently .4 never happens, Manu doesn't foul Dirk etc. Spurs could have four-peated, conversely Wallace doesn't leave Horry, Horry doesn't hip check Nash, and Horry makes the three at the end of game 5 in 2003 Spurs end up winning one le total.
Heres a couple of links about how the results of close wins almost meaningless as a display of a teams quality:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8159
http://wagesofwins.com/2009/06/03/fo...oop-smackdown/
A wiseman once told me that "Only pussies and assholes play the injury card." If that's the case, Magic went down in '89 - or they would have 3peated.
Fisher's shot. There's at least two sides to that story. 1st: Fishers' 3 wasn't lucky. He's proven he can hit that shot because it's in his repertoire as we've seen throughout the years. 2nd: The shot Duncan hit just before was lucky as . He just threw it up and it dropped. 3rd: Goes back to mental toughness. The Spurs didn't play until the final buzzer sounded. They relaxed on defense - thinking the game was won on Duncan's shot - and paid for it dearly. That speaks to lack of mental toughness.
By sitting your players, Pop is indavertently telling his players they can "take days off" and still win (since "they have nothing to play for" as you put it). Well, taking days off is a mindset that leads to "taking plays off" in games at the absolute wrong time - as we saw with that 0.4 playoff thriller.
I think Showtime was the 1st to do it, since Boston did it back in the 16th century. But no, my obsession with repeating has nothing to do with them. Repeating has a ton of variables that must go right in order to happen. Health and mental toughness are the biggest two.
Overall count. Are you finally admitting that 5 > 4?
Accidents can happen at any time. I remember one year Shaq cut himself at home on his shooting hand during the playoffs. It happens. Doesn't matter when it happens. It's part of the game. You don't sit players because you are afraid they are going to get hurt. That's silliness IMO. Besides, that was a freak accident by Manu. He is injury prone though - due to his playing style.
Good points. However, the bolded, again, speaks to mental toughness. Your boys were lackadaisical on that last possession and got burned. I think Pop's coaching breeds that kind of behavior.
To be a Lakers fan, do you have to make a shrine to Kobe or something?
See this is the thing...it was never really neccesary to bash Kobe from 08-10 or even 2011 for that matter of fact as a Laker fan. But this year, I felt the D12 signing COMPLETELY exposed Kobe Bryant as a poor leader and a ball hog. I felt as a fan of the Lakers organization and wanting to see them return to the finals, it was better to rebuild around D12 and get a guy like Kyrie, Durant, etc on the Lakers sometime in the next 2-3 years and get back to le contention.
However, 99% of LG is delusional and thinks Kobe can play at an elite level for another 5 years even though he's half the player he was in 2009. So when many of us criticized the ridiculous proposition of building around Kobe for another 3-4 years and insisted Dwight is the only chance this franchise now has, it was a chain reaction of Kobe s getting their panties moist over it.
99% of these gots were also happy that D'antoni was signed over Phil and pretended it was a good decision. Most people simply just don't understand basketball.
A wiseman once told me that "Only pussies and assholes play the injury card." If that's the case, Magic went down in '89 - or they would have 3peated.
Fisher's shot. There's at least two sides to that story. 1st: Fishers' 3 wasn't lucky. He's proven he can hit that shot because it's in his repertoire as we've seen throughout the years. 2nd: The shot Duncan hit just before was lucky as . He just threw it up and it dropped. 3rd: Goes back to mental toughness. The Spurs didn't play until the final buzzer sounded. They relaxed on defense - thinking the game was won on Duncan's shot - and paid for it dearly. That speaks to lack of mental toughness.
By sitting your players, Pop is indavertently telling his players they can "take days off" and still win (since "they have nothing to play for" as you put it). Well, taking days off is a mindset that leads to "taking plays off" in games at the absolute wrong time - as we saw with that 0.4 playoff thriller.
I think Showtime was the 1st to do it, since Boston did it back in the 16th century. But no, my obsession with repeating has nothing to do with them. Repeating has a ton of variables that must go right in order to happen. Health and mental toughness are the biggest two.
Overall count. Are you finally admitting that 5 > 4?
Accidents can happen at any time. I remember one year Shaq cut himself at home on his shooting hand during the playoffs. It happens. Doesn't matter when it happens. It's part of the game. You don't sit players because you are afraid they are going to get hurt. That's silliness IMO. Besides, that was a freak accident by Manu. He is injury prone though - due to his playing style.
Watch the play again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSnAvhvfniw
Kobe is bottled up. Rasho sealed off Shaq to prevent the lob. Duncan cut off the passing lanes to Shaq and Malone. And Manu stayed right with Fisher and was half an inch away from blocking the shot.
But having the luxury of hindsight bias, Kobe probably should've been singled covered, with Horry in front the inbounder, hands up in the air. Because Kobe has a longer body than Fisher, I don't think he would have enough time to turn and shoot.
Sure Duncan's shot was lucky. But the Lakers out-lucked the Spurs, proving my point about how many things a team needs to go their way to win a championship, much less a repeat. To bounce back the very next year and win it after that heartbreaker is mental toughness personified, and against the very team that slaughtered your boys a year earlier
As for the other debate, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm with you on criticizing Pop's penchant for resting players during the regular season when a playoff seed is still at stake, but playing your top guys in meaningless situations (Thibs keeping Rose on the floor in garbage time) isn't an intelligent thing to do. To jeopardize your chances at a championship for the purpose of "keeping guys sharp" is foolhardy. These guys are professionals, and should be "sharp" regardless of whether or not they play in the last games of the season.
Besides, it's been shown that how you enter the playoffs has no correlation with championship success, as Clipper Nation pointed out earlier.
Duncan has made that shot before and since, Fisher had not.
Oh dude, I'm not complaining about people that are in love with Kobe, the dude is a compe or and a great player, yes he has aged quite a bit, but he has glimpses of greatness. My complaint is about the people that are literally IN LOVE with Kobe, I don't think I've ever been so creeped out after reading that link you posted about the guy that wants to better himself because Kobe is doing the same thing or something; I dunno, I stopped reading half way through because I felt like I needed to go take a long shower after reading it.
The fans who are deeply in love with Kobe Bryant are the fans that most likely will stop being Laker fans after his departure, I have no idea why people love getting into arguments with those..
those I do not respect, the other people I don't like are those who disguise themselves as Laker fans and despise Kobe Bryant, how can a Laker fan ever hate their franchise player for no reason?
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