bowen's defense is overrated

[SAGambler]

his man usually works so hard for his shot that he often forgets about his teammates, gets sloppy on defense, and doesn't have the legs to make a 4th quarter impact.

Instead of asking how many points his man got, ask how many he got after the halfway point of the 3rd quarter. I think that gives you a better indication of how Bruce wears his man down.

The great shooters are going to get some points. But if you make them rather ineffective come 4th quarter, you have done your job.

[pjjrfan]

Bowen's role to this team is valuable. He totally frustrated Zach and his teammates. I am truly amazed at how people use scoring as a guage to how good or complementary a player is to the team, not everyone on a team has to be a scorer, a guy like Bruce shows his value in how effectively he does his job, and he does it well. Lost in the anaylysis is that in the HOuston game Tmac was not the same guy in the 4th qtr. or that Marion's contributions didn't lead to a win for his team, or that the kid in Sac dissappeared in the 2nd half. All these things led to wins and all these things can be attributed to one thing, Bruce's defense.

[MrChug]

How many players in the league go out and shut down Stephon Marbury AND Zach Randolph? None.

[ata]

The only person he shut down this year was Marion. He had 8 points to his 19 point avg. He did have 18 boards though. And in our two losses it was his man that tourched us.
Name---Points----Avg
Morrison 27 points to a 15 avg
T-Mac 26 points to a 19 avg
Richardson 21 points to a 18 avg
James 35 points to a 28 avg
Howard 20 points to a 16 avg
Not sure about Toranto

Aside from Marion, you can hardly call that a shut down defense. You cannot even call that "Hold them to their average" defense.

now analyse this numbers:

2006/7 seasson:

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607SAS.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607SAS5.HTM

2005/6 seasson:

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506SAS.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506SAS5.HTM

his "great" defense and his inexistent offensive production are more harmful than beneficial for the team.

TrollCount++

next

[Supergirl]

When will people learn that Bowen's contributions to this team are NEVER EVER GOING TO BE MEASURABLE IN STATS?

[Man In Black]

When will people learn that Bowen's contributions to this team are NEVER EVER GOING TO BE MEASURABLE IN STATS?

It's measurable...but the measure shows up on who he is guarding. On the premier scorers he defends, their stats suffer because of him. It might not be points(we've seen Kobe score 40 on 40 shots and TMac get 35 on 34 so they can still score, but definitely, it's efficiency. Plus, the premier scorers have so much pride in trying to beat Bruce, that they turn the game into a 1 against 5. The proof is in the the way coaches talk about his D. Phil Jackson has said it in the past that he doesn't want Kobe to stop using his teammates when he is up against Bowen.

[Phenomanul]

did you noticed that equals to a 50% of the shots were made?

And did you notice that roughly 30% percent of the points totaled in the 168 pts figure came at the free-throw line... more specifically that 118 points, not 168, were scored on 169 shots.... for a PPS value of 0.69...

Furthermore you don't seem to understand that forcing someone on the opposing team into a volume shooting frenzy is a detriment to that team's offense. Only in the case of LeBron - where HE IS the team offense does that end up biting us....

[tlongII]

I'll admit it. Bowen did a good job denying Zach the ball in the 3rd quarter last night. The Blazers were obviously surprised by that defensive switch. I just wish the Spurs didn't get all the effing calls!

[Tigole Bitties]

How many players in the league go out and shut down Stephon Marbury AND Zach Randolph? None.

During last night's FOXSW broadcast, Sean Elliott was daring anyone to name another player in the league that can adequately defend both Steve Nash AND Zach Randolph.

Lebron maybe ...

[spurs_in_7]

And did you notice that roughly 30% percent of the points totaled in the 168 pts figure came at the free-throw line... more specifically that 118 points, not 168, were scored on 169 shots.... for a PPS value of 0.69...

BS!

lets see...........

josh Howard 7/12 2's and 1/4 3's 5/6 FT
LeBron James 14/24 2's and 1/2 3's 6/11 FT
Mo Peterson 5/7 2's and 2/4 3's 3/3 FT
Quentin Richardson 4/7 2's and 1/2 3's 5/8 FT
Shawn Marion 4/8 2's and 0/5 3's 0/0 FT
Quentin Richardson 9/17 2's and 0/1 3's 3/4 FT
Tracy McGrady 10/18 2's and 4/7 3's 2/4 FT
Adam Morrison 12/20 2's and 2/3 3's 1/2 FT
Andres Nocioni 1/8 2's and 0/2 3's 0/0 FT
Ron Artest 9/16 2's and 1/4 3's 3/5 FT


75/137 (.547) on 2's

12/34 (.352) on 3's

28/43 on FT's

PPS=PTS/FGA right?, and if you consider 2FT's = 1 shot then;

pts made = 75x2 + 12x3 + 28 = 214 pts

fga = 137 + 34 + 43/2 = 192.5 fga

that is: 214 pts / 192.5 fga = 1.11 PPS

btw, great defense last night on randolf but, that kind of performances are the exceptions to the rule.

[ShoogarBear]

I'll admit it. Bowen did a good job denying Zach the ball in the 3rd quarter last night. The Blazers were obviously surprised by that defensive switch. I just wish the Spurs didn't get all the effing calls!

Tlong, who are the Blazer TV announcers? Those guys would have been hilarious except for the fact that they were completely serious.

[ChumpDumper]

You act like holding the best players in the league to 1.11 PPS is a bad thing. That's Jamal Crawford territory.

[spurs_in_7]

You act like holding the best players in the league to 1.11 PPS is a bad thing. That's Jamal Crawford territory.

dont forget that 1.11pps is a average, if take the pps of each player alone the numbers are more than 1.11pps generally.

[ChumpDumper]

dont forget that 1.11pps is a average, if take the pps of each player alone the numbers are more than 1.11pps.

Do you know what an average is?

[Phenomanul]

BS!

lets see...........

josh Howard 7/12 2's and 1/4 3's 5/6 FT
LeBron James 14/24 2's and 1/2 3's 6/11 FT
Mo Peterson 5/7 2's and 2/4 3's 3/3 FT
Quentin Richardson 4/7 2's and 1/2 3's 5/8 FT
Shawn Marion 4/8 2's and 0/5 3's 0/0 FT
Quentin Richardson 9/17 2's and 0/1 3's 3/4 FT
Tracy McGrady 10/18 2's and 4/7 3's 2/4 FT
Adam Morrison 12/20 2's and 2/3 3's 1/2 FT
Andres Nocioni 1/8 2's and 0/2 3's 0/0 FT
Ron Artest 9/16 2's and 1/4 3's 3/5 FT


75/137 (.547) on 2's

12/34 (.352) on 3's

28/43 on FT's

PPS=PTS/FGA right?, and if you consider 2FT's = 1 shot then;

pts made = 75x2 + 12x3 + 28 = 214 pts

fga = 137 + 34 + 43/2 = 192.5 fga

that is: 214 pts / 192.5 fga = 1.11 PPS

btw, great defense last night on randolf but, that kind of performances are the exceptions to the rule.

I added the wrong column on the FT totals but your calc. is still wrong.

Free throws aren't counted as a shot attempt unless it was an and-1... were that the case those shot attempts already show up on the stat sheet.

So if I use your numbers it should be:

Points Made (from shots) = 75x2 + 12x3 = 186

Shot Attempts = 137(twos) + 34(threes) = 171

that is: 186 pts / 171 fga = 1.08 PPS

But you have failed to show how me how all of those baskets were made on Bowen... I distinctly remember Lebron shooting over Barry, Ginobili and Finley as well as Bowen. Same goes for Artest and McGrady and MoPete. I also remember Bowen switching off to guard Marbury and Crawford against New York -- spending only half of his time on Richardson.

Give it up dude.

The only guys that burned Bowen were Lebron, 1st-half McGrady, and Adam Morrison -- and Adam probably shouldn't even be counted because he was pushing off of Bowen to get his shots off and the Stu Jack factor was preventing Bowen from playing like Bowen.

[spurs_in_7]

Do you know what an average is?

a meal?

[tlongII]

Tlong, who are the Blazer TV announcers? Those guys would have been hilarious except for the fact that they were completely serious.

If it was a Blazer broadcast I believe you would have had Mike Barrett and Mike Rice. They are homers, but that's okay with me.

[twincam]

You failed to add the most important stats...HOW MANY SHOTS DID IT TAKE FOR EACH OF THOSE SCORERS TO GET THEIR POINTS?

When Bruce is holding Kobe or TMac to 35 points on 35 shots...HE IS DOING HIS JOB
!!!

RECOGNIZE.

I agree with you 100%, that guy needs to research before he preaches.

[wildbill2u]

The only statistics that count are "Ws". With Bowen as our primary defender against primary offensive players we set a franchise record for Ws last year. Spurs consistently are in the hunt for the best defensive team stats and we have been a team that wins with defense as a major part of the system.

Beyond the regular season, We've won championships with Bowen as the primary defender against primary offensive players.

If the coaching staff and the team players thought his contributions weren't critical to the Spurs' success, they would criticize his efforts and replace him. Ain't happening. They know better.

STFU!

[jman3000]

During last night's FOXSW broadcast, Sean Elliott was daring anyone to name another player in the league that can adequately defend both Steve Nash AND Zach Randolph.

Lebron maybe ...

lol @ lebron playing defense.

[spurs_in_7]

i wonder why he not won the DPOY yet.........

the true best perimeter defender is artest

artest = 10 x bowen

[spurs_in_7]

I agree with you 100%, that guy needs to research before he preaches.

did you read all my posts in this thead?