Its Science versus Religion Part XXXV

[MannyIsGod]

No, but I play one on T.V.

and on the internet, especially after staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

Anyhow, I believe in evolution, and I think that you can easily fit evolution into non literal christian thinking. And actually, I guess there are ways to fit it into literal thinking as well.

I read a great, but incredibly simple book, called <i>Ishmael</i>. It discussed evolution, but it also discussed how society views things from a very centrist prospective.

Some of the things it touched on were :

1. How bible stories such as Cain and Able could have been folk stories that evolved.

2. How humans perceive themselves as God's grand creation. They are at the top, and they rarely stop to consider that evolution is on going. What will humans be in 1 million years? Assuming we don't blow ourselves up before then.

It's simply a fiction story, but it touches on some weird things. It was an interesting, and quick (took me a few hours at most) read.

[travis2]

I am. Where'd this reality come from? Saying that God's just here doesn't cut it, unless you just want to say it's a matter of faith.

What's your background?

[Yonivore]

I want to participate in this thread, but I can only do so in about 30 seconds... so here it goes...

Oh boy, out of the realm of economics and petroleum politics?

1. Why do people have difficulty understanding that a series of micro's amounts to a macro?

I don't. And, I didn't read this thread from the beginning so, I have no idea what you're on about...sorry.

2. Why is "evolution by default intelligent design?" What has lead you to believe such a thing?

Until there is a answer to the origin of matter -- which there will never be (see previous post about getting outside an experiment), intelligent design is as much a viable theory as anything else on the board; and, in fact, creating something out of nothing would, to me, point to deity since it violates all knows laws of physics and thermodynamics. Therefore, the existence of any matter seems to indicate the existence of God. As they say, "If there is then He is."

3. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, but creation (as in what Creationists believe) and evolution are.

Agree. So long as you're referring to the "6,000 year-old earth populated in a flash by God" type of creationism.

But, I do not believe evolution and creation, through intelligent design, are mutually exclusive. As a very specific example, I've long believed the story in the Book of Genesis, where Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then realized they were naked and became ashamed, is a metaphor for when humanity gained consciousness and emotion in it's evolutionary cycle.

Just a theory I have. Feel free to beat up on it...

4. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, and reading just about any readily available science journal (or the National Geographic) shows that Scientists are convinced.

And, this Christian believes evolution has been proven.

5. Creationists often point to the "vast numbers of scientists" who doubt evolution (as a whole). The Creation Science Ins ute registers these scientists. There are over 300 of them! The number of scientists registers with the National Ins ute of Science is over 12,000. 300 out of 12,000 = vast?

Kind of silly, huh? I don't doubt evolution. But, I don't doubt evolution is a manifestation of intelligent design either. Do you?

6. Anyone who seeks to remove evolution from textbooks or present it as "just a theory" does a disserve to the Children of America, who are well below the standards of other industrialized nations. Evolution is indeed "just" a scientific theory... of course scientific theories are half a step away from "facts"- we aren't talking about the kind of theory you come up with to figure out who ate the last slice of cheesecake.

Agreed. However, I would like to see the various theories on the origins of matter get some treatment in the textbooks...

I know the question on origin is unanswerable but, it could be explained that intelligent design is, at least, one explanation.

[Duff McCartney]

Science>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Religion.

[SPARKY]

Apparently good enough to pontificate on this here internets.

So what was here before this reality was here?

[travis2]

Apparently good enough to pontificate on this here internets.

So what was here before this reality was here?

Thanks for the non answer.

[MannyIsGod]

Apparently good enough to pontificate on this here internets.

So what was here before this reality was here?

Ok, I'm not supporting creationism, but what point are you trying to make?

Scientific theories don't say that there was a pink bunny rabbit hopping around the green meadow of the unverse before the big bang do they?

Hey, try thinking out of a linear box and see if your head doesn't fall off.

[Useruser666]

Bang - repeat

[SPARKY]

Apparently you are incapable of doing what you suggest.

[MannyIsGod]

what?

[SPARKY]

when?

[MannyIsGod]

Apparently you are incapable of doing what you suggest.

Am I? Because I'm the one trying to make a point by refuting beginings? Oh wait, that was YOU.

So what was that point you were trying to make again?

[SPARKY]

Excuse me for thinking outside the box. Resume your normal creationism v evolution boredom.

[Guru of Nothing]

Here's my contribution to this thread:

I DON'T KNOW, nor will I pretend.

[MannyIsGod]

Excuse me for thinking outside the box. Resume your normal creationism v evolution boredom.

Thinking outside the box? , someone likes to pat themselves on the back more than I do.

Congrats on groundbreaking and theory shattering thinking Sparkmiester.

I asked what point you were trying to make, and you pouted instead of answering.

[SPARKY]

You have an odd way of asking. Perhaps you should try thinking first before engaging your mouth or fingers as the case may be.

[Yonivore]

Bang - repeat

What? No rinse?

[Yonivore]

Here's my contribution to this thread:

I DON'T KNOW, nor will I pretend.

The most intelligent post of this thread...

[MannyIsGod]

You have an odd way of asking. Perhaps you should try thinking first before engaging your mouth or fingers as the case may be.

For someone who complained about not getting an answer earlier, you sure are a nice dancer.

I may have an odd way of asking but you sure have an odd way of answering.

[SPARKY]

You didn't answer my question. Try again.

[travis2]

I don't think you should be demanding answers from people when you won't answer questions yourself.

[MannyIsGod]

heh, ok.

[SPARKY]

I don't think you should be demanding answers from people when you won't answer questions yourself.

How about I demand what I want and you shut the up?

[travis2]

heh, ok.

you're talking to sparky, right?

[Yonivore]

So what was here before this reality was here?

I'm assuming this is the question to which you're referring. (I had to scroll back through some pretty thick nonsense to come up with it.)

Which reality?

And, the only correct answer to your question is ... no one knows nor can anyone know what was here before this was here. Because if it exists or if a trace of its existence is then it wasn't here before, it's here now. Right?