Wright - Obama - Ayers (peas in a pod)

[RandomGuy]

Essentially, Yoni is asking me to accept, at face value the interpretations of a reading of board minutes from someone with a very obvious bias.

I must then not be skeptical when a fellow from the Ethics and Public Policy Center, "Washington, D.C.'s premier ins ute dedicated to applying the Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy.", tell me what he believes he read in the meeting minutes of an archive.

Let's look at the source article for some evidence of bias.

The article 's le, "Obama and Ayers pushed radicalism on schools" pretty much gives the purpose of the piece away.

It is an attempt to play the "radical" card. Does the author attempt to show us examples of "radical" agenda of these groups and let us decide whether any agenda is "radical"? Not really, beyond one or two items, that were quite probably cherry-picked.

Similarly we are told to beware of "far-left" organizers, etc etc. Whose definition of "far left"? Again, the author's.

Time and again, the author says "they were a team" and "they worked together", based on his reading of board minutes.

Always it is the interpretation of facts based on solely the author's opinion.

That is why it is on the OPINION page of the Wall Strett Journal.

Unfortunately, because the author did not deign to present the material in its original format, we are left with only his interpretations of what he read.

Why is that?

The rather obvious answer is that this is very likely a hit-piece with an obvious agenda.

Can we logically dismiss the author's claims, simply because he has an obvious agenda?

No.

It *IS* however, very logical to apply a great deal of skepticism to his claims, especially given that we have no evidence to support or disprove his claims and interpretations of what he read.

[RandomGuy]

This is a very CLASSIC guilt by association.

Does the author present ANY direct quote from Mr. Obama concerning his views on what he accomplished or hoped to accomplish when he was with the organization?

No.

1/3 of the article is spent attempting to paint the organization itself as "far-left" and "radical", with no attempt to show any balance in the dipiction of CAC or ACORN or anything else.

It is the kind of thing that a lawyer making a case in a court would say. Take the facts, and put the best possible spin from your viewpoint on them, and downplay or ignore any weakness in it.

It is pablum for the converted, and little more.

Without reading the do ents for myself, or maybe getting a less biased account, I would not assign this much weight to this when trying to figure out for myself if Mr. Obama is some secret radical.

[Wild Cobra]

This is a very CLASSIC guilt by association.

I would agree if associates were all they were. Obama and Ayers were far closer than Obama is willing to admit now. Then there is the "Mentor for twenty years." You simply cannot blow these off as just associations.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, there is the "mentor for twenty years" allegation which is completely unsubstantiated but you guys hope it catches on through repe ion.

I can blow it off as the ineffectual nonissue it is.

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, there is the "mentor for twenty years" allegation which is completely unsubstantiated but you guys hope it catches on through repe ion.

I can blow it off as the ineffectual nonissue it is.

At most, that's just a technicality. Obama did go to his services for 20 years. Did he sleep though the sermons then? There is no way but to be brain dead that he couldn't know what Wright stood for. Then to be there for twenty years!

I'm pretty sure i heard an audio clip of Obama using that phrase on talk radio. You are right though. The term has been burned into our minds, and may be factually in error. In a simple search, I was unable to find such a transcript. Maybe it was in a book? Regardless, I think Obama used the phrase, but yes. I could be wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, you're talking about Wright now.

That had no legs either.

Try "Muslim sleeper agent" again. Maybe it will stick this time.

[Shastafarian]

At most, that's just a technicality. Obama did go to his services for 20 years. Did he sleep though the sermons then? There is no way but to be brain dead that he couldn't know what Wright stood for. Then to be there for twenty years!

I'm pretty sure i heard an audio clip of Obama using that phrase on talk radio. You are right though. The term has been burned into our minds, and may be factually in error. In a simple search, I was unable to find such a transcript. Maybe it was in a book? Regardless, I think Obama used the phrase, but yes. I could be wrong.

The problem for republicans is that if they bring up Wright, the democrats can now bring up Palin's pastor.

[RandomGuy]

The problem for republicans is that if they bring up Wright, the democrats can now bring up Palin's pastor.

... or any of the nutjob evangelicals that McCain has avoided like the plague and who seem to hold a LOT of power in the GOP.

Puh-lease.

Any Republican who starts blathering on about Wright deserves to be slapped in the face with Jerry Falwell's ass cheeks.[

[DarrinS]

Come on guys, I don't like Obama, but I don't think there's any real connection b/n Obama and Ayers. Obama was like 8 years old when the Weathermen were active.

[Yonivore]

Come on guys, I don't like Obama, but I don't think there's any real connection b/n Obama and Ayers. Obama was like 8 years old when the Weathermen were active.

How old were you when Obama and Ayers were running the CAC together -- for years?

How old were you when Ayers showed no remorse for his crimes -- after his close association with Obama?

How old were you when Obama tried to throw him under the bus by saying he was just a neighbor with whom he doesn't share ideas?

[Yonivore]

I like how none of the Obamamaniacs are directly addressing the facts of the article.

[clambake]

i'll be remembering the article during the inauguration. will you be around for that?

[Yonivore]

i'll be remembering the article during the inauguration. will you be around for that?

Like I said, no one will address the facts of the article. Clambake is even prepared to ignore them in the hopes that no one will notice.

Then, of course, there's this Obama connection to the current financial fiasco:

[Wild Cobra]

The problem for republicans is that if they bring up Wright, the democrats can now bring up Palin's pastor.

Not true because of the levels of association and time known.

Please buy a clue.

[Wild Cobra]

Any Republican who starts blathering on about Wright deserves to be slapped in the face with Jerry Falwell's ass cheeks.

Why?

I don't know a single one that has any respect for him. On top of that, none of them know him personally.

Please buy a clue also.

[ChumpDumper]

I like how none of the Obamamaniacs are directly addressing the facts of the article.

What facts?

What do you hope is the takeaway from this?

[Shastafarian]

I like how none of the Obamamaniacs are directly addressing the facts of the article.

Maybe you didn't read the posts. Maybe you can't read. Maybe you just chose to keep spouting the same old . We did address the "facts" of the article. The "fact" is there aren't many "facts" to back up the claim that Obama and Ayers are more than acquaintances. Those "facts" along with the "fact" that the article is from a known right-leaning source leave us with the "fact" that you don't know what you're talking about.

[clambake]

Like I said, no one will address the facts of the article. Clambake is even prepared to ignore them in the hopes that no one will notice.

, i just acknowledged your post.

, lay the article out for autopsy. maybe someone will notice.

[Yonivore]

Maybe you didn't read the posts. Maybe you can't read. Maybe you just chose to keep spouting the same old . We did address the "facts" of the article. The "fact" is there aren't many "facts" to back up the claim that Obama and Ayers are more than acquaintances. Those "facts" along with the "fact" that the article is from a known right-leaning source leave us with the "fact" that you don't know what you're talking about.

So, you're seriously claiming that Ayers and Obama's association through the CAC is one of mere acquaintance?

If I'm not mistaken, there's a quote out there where Obama claims Ayers is his "mentor."

Back when Huffington Post was still pushing for a Clinton candidacy, they posted this:

Ayers and Obama: What is their relationship?

You would think the media would be more curious.

[Yonivore]

, i just acknowledged your post.

, lay the article out for autopsy. maybe someone will notice.

I'm sorry, I mistook your ignorance for ignorance, not complicity.

[clambake]

I'm sorry, I mistook your ignorance for ignorance, not complicity.

i'm just beefing up my republican resume.

got any traction on the article yet?

have you taken it global?

[Shastafarian]

So, you're seriously claiming that Ayers and Obama's association through the CAC is one of mere acquaintance?

Ayers wasn't ont he board anymore so yeah, I think was mainly an acquaintance.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a quote out there where Obama claims Ayers is his "mentor."

Back when Huffington Post was still pushing for a Clinton candidacy, they posted this:

Ayers and Obama: What is their relationship?

You would think the media would be more curious.

I would be more curious if you were factual in your statements.

And Talking Points Memo has a clip from Fox News falsely claims that Ayers was Obama's mentor:

But I guess you don't need to be factual when you're a Fox News watcher.

[Yonivore]

Ayers wasn't ont he board anymore so yeah, I think was mainly an acquaintance.

Obama was CAC's first board chairman, serving in that capacity for four years and remaining on the board for two more. Ayers was the founder of CAC and, according to Kurtz, its guiding spirit. Moreover, the archive do ents Kurtz reviewed show that Ayers was part of a working group of five that assembled the initial board. Ayers then sat as an ex-officio member of the board Obama chaired through CAC's first year. He also served on the board's governance committee with Obama. The two worked together to craft CAC bylaws.

True or false? And, if true, would that make their association more than an acquaintance?

During this period, Ayers co-chaired something called the "Collaborative," which worked with Obama's group to shape education policy. In essence Ayers formulated the policy that would inform the distribution of funds; Obama headed the body that distributed the money accordingly.

Ture or false? And, if true, do you think the two bodies could collaborate on the distribution of monies, by one, guided by the policies of the other without being more than acquaintances?

I would be more curious if you were factual in your statements.

I allowed that I might be mistaken but, if, in fact, Ayers was on the committee that appointed Obama to Chair the CAC, it could be construed as mentorship. Particularly since Obama is relying very heavily on his CAC experience as credentials for being President of the United States.

But I guess you don't need to be factual when you're a Fox News watcher.

Sorry, I don't watch FoxNews. I have poverty cable.

But, speaking of Obama's thin resume...there was this in the article.

How well did CAC perform in the end? In educational terms it failed. According to Kurtz, when CAC's in-house evaluators comprehensively studied the effects of its grants on the test scores of Chicago public-school students, they found no evidence of educational improvement.

So, he dumped tens, if not hundreds, of millions into a failed education strategy while he headed the CAC. Sweet!

[Shastafarian]

True or false? And, if true, would that make their association more than an acquaintance?

I'm guessing at least partially true. But no, being chosen to be on a board does make two people kindred spirits.

Ture or false? And, if true, do you think the two bodies could collaborate on the distribution of monies, by one, guided by the policies of the other?

No idea if it's true. We have to take the author's word on it. It is even mentioned that the "Collaborative" might have had little to no power. You seem to have omitted that part.

I allowed that I might be mistaken but, if, in fact, Ayers was on the committee that appointed Obama to Chair the CAC, it could be construed as mentorship.

that's funny. Because someone helps appoint you to a position, he's your mentor.

So, he dumped tens, if not hundreds, of millions into a failed education strategy while he headed the CAC. Sweet!

again according to the author who doesn't cite or quote anything from the actual source material.

[Yonivore]

I'm guessing at least partially true. But no, being chosen to be on a board does make two people kindred spirits.

How 'bout being chosen the first Chairman of an enterprise you labored for many years to bring to fruition. CAC was Ayers' baby and you think he would just let some "acquaintance" take the reins and walk away?

Look up naive in the dictionary. Better yet, look in the mirror.

No idea if it's true. We have to take the author's word on it. It is even mentioned that the "Collaborative" might have had little to no power. You seem to have omitted that part.

Again, to think that Ayers built the CAC, formed a committee to appoint a chair, and then just walked away; is silly.

that's funny. Because someone helps appoint you to a position, he's your mentor.

It was Obama's years at CAC on which he's relying to get elected President. Ayers was the principal person responsible for his having that experience. Yeah, mentor is a good word.

again according to the author who doesn't cite or quote anything from the actual source material.

He actually cites CAC evaluators whose records are do ented.