Turn out the lights, the party's over.

[florige]

In all honesty I've never believed the polls showing Obama leading. As much as I hope and pray I still think there are too many people saying one thing but will do another once they are in the voting booth. I still say it will be a shocker if Obama wins.

I kinda went with them because the lead was starting to get so overwhelming. The poll system would be more of a joke if Obama was up 10-12 points and still managed to lose the election. I guess the media would just blame it on the Bradley effect. But if Obama were to lose I think it would be safe to rename it the "Obama effect" from here on out....

[florige]

Like this poll.....

http://politicalwire.com/archives/20...king_poll.html


Has Obama up 10 points.

[florige]

I will be truly shocked if this race isn't a virtual tie come Nov 3rd... Shocked as in....

[101A]

If Obama loses it is because he is running a traditional/left campaign. Class warfare, etc...it is a failed model. Republican have won 9/14 elections post Truman...and only a single Democrat has won reelection. Clinton never won election with 50% of the vote.

We are a conservative country, ultimately. , look at Joe the Plumber; HE WILL get more of a tax break with Obama; but he doesn't care. His vote isn't for sale; it's ideological.

That said, I still predict that economic factors are SO overwhelming that the "party in power" is doomed. If the race is tightening, Obama will go on attack again, and the margin will spread.

The wild card in this that no one seems to be talking about are gas prices. People vote pocket book, and at the beginning of November, many Americans are going to have a little more cash at that point simply because fuel is down, what, 35% from a couple of months ago? It could matter.

[JoeChalupa]

If Obama loses it is because he is running a traditional/left campaign. Class warfare, etc...it is a failed model. Republican have won 9/14 elections post Truman...and only a single Democrat has won reelection. Clinton never won election with 50% of the vote.

We are a conservative country, ultimately. , look at Joe the Plumber; HE WILL get more of a tax break with Obama; but he doesn't care. His vote isn't for sale; it's ideological.

That said, I still predict that economic factors are SO overwhelming that the "party in power" is doomed. If the race is tightening, Obama will go on attack again, and the margin will spread.

The wild card in this that no one seems to be talking about are gas prices. People vote pocket book, and at the beginning of November, many Americans are going to have a little more cash at that point simply because fuel is down, what, 35% from a couple of months ago? It could matter.

I agree to a point. Conservatism up to a point. , I run a very conservative home but have progressive views on things. While I don't like guns in my home I respect the rights of other to do so. While I respect the sanc y of marriage I also respect the rights of those in same sex relationships. While I'm personally against abortion I respect a woman's right to choose. If you hung around my house you'd swear I was a conservative and I am..just a progressive conservative.
Whether we want to admit it or not, race is a factor for many who simply can't get past their fears and doubts.

[Findog]

is ACORN the difference? I do agree your team is gonna win.

at how registration fraud perpetuated AGAINST ACORN is part of a massive voter fraud conspiracy.

[Findog]

Gallup poll shows Obama 49% and McCain at 47%.
Here comes the Palin/McCain surge. Obama gave them an opening and it could just be the one they've been waiting for. Joe the Plumber is now the leader of the Palin/McCain campaign and they are going to ride it to the end.
I've always said that Obama has a much tougher climb.

They're using the "traditional" LV model, which is based on 2004 turnout results and demographics. It's based on trends that no longer exist.

Jesus

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...olls-1016.html

[101A]

I agree to a point. Conservatism up to a point. , I run a very conservative home but have progressive views on things. While I don't like guns in my home I respect the rights of other to do so. While I respect the sanc y of marriage I also respect the rights of those in same sex relationships. While I'm personally against abortion I respect a woman's right to choose. If you hung around my house you'd swear I was a conservative and I am..just a progressive conservative.
Whether we want to admit it or not, race is a factor for many who simply can't get past their fears and doubts.

Those are all social issues; Americans are also, generally, more Conservative on economic issues. The answer to "do you want a bigger, or smaller Federal Govt." still produces "smaller" as an answer by more than 50% of the population.

[ratm1221]

If Obama loses it is because he is running a traditional/left campaign. Class warfare, etc...it is a failed model. Republican have won 9/14 elections post Truman...and only a single Democrat has won reelection. Clinton never won election with 50% of the vote.

We are a conservative country, ultimately. , look at Joe the Plumber; HE WILL get more of a tax break with Obama; but he doesn't care. His vote isn't for sale; it's ideological.

That said, I still predict that economic factors are SO overwhelming that the "party in power" is doomed. If the race is tightening, Obama will go on attack again, and the margin will spread.

The wild card in this that no one seems to be talking about are gas prices. People vote pocket book, and at the beginning of November, many Americans are going to have a little more cash at that point simply because fuel is down, what, 35% from a couple of months ago? It could matter.

Republican ideology is horrible. Every time a repug is in office the economy plummets. 80's sucked balls and the 2000's sucked balls. People are just too stupid to see it. They are blinded by issues like abortion that have nothing to do with the economy of the country. I guess as long as we don't kill babies it's ok if they go hungry and live in the street. The only problem is that conservatives care enough about their cause to vote, while liberals are lazy assholes that don't vote. They talk a lot of and about how things are, but when it comes time to walk the walk, they sit on their ass.

All these people about small business, small business, poor small business... but the fact of the matter is, small business is a thing of the past thanks to republicans. Corporations own this country. These corporations have gotten so big and have such a monopoly over so many things, that they could care less if they screw customers over because where else are you going to go? Now-a-days if you say "Hey, you are a rude company I'm going somewhere else" you get "ok, we don't need you, we have 3 million other customers, bye". Anyone who wants to take the side of these big corporations has obviously never had to deal with any of these companies that care so much about their customers... or they have a very short memory. And those who have forgotten how bad the 80's sucked either didn't live through them or is in denial.

[101A]

Republican ideology is horrible. Every time a repug is in office the economy plummets. 80's sucked balls and the 2000's sucked balls. People are just too stupid to see it. They are blinded by issues like abortion that have nothing to do with the economy of the country. I guess as long as we don't kill babies it's ok if they go hungry and live in the street. The only problem is that conservatives care enough about their cause to vote, while liberals are lazy assholes that don't vote. They talk a lot of and about how things are, but when it comes time to walk the walk, they sit on their ass.

All these people about small business, small business, poor small business... but the fact of the matter is, small business is a thing of the past thanks to republicans. Corporations own this country. These corporations have gotten so big and have such a monopoly over so many things, that they could care less if they screw customers over because where else are you going to go? Now-a-days if you say "Hey, you are a rude company I'm going somewhere else" you get "ok, we don't need you, we have 3 million other customers, bye". Anyone who wants to take the side of these big corporations has obviously never had to deal with any of these companies that care so much about their customers... or they have a very short memory. And those who have forgotten how bad the 80's sucked either didn't live through them or is in denial.

Talk out your ass much?

Abortion is NOT a winning issue for Republicans for any group but the base.

There are more people employed by Small Business in this country than by large corporations.

The '80's featured UNPRECEDENTED economic growth and job creation. Now the '70's with stagflation (10% unemployment, 12% inflation, 20% interest); there is something to be feared.

A ridiculous post.

[JoeChalupa]

Those are all social issues; Americans are also, generally, more Conservative on economic issues. The answer to "do you want a bigger, or smaller Federal Govt." still produces "smaller" as an answer by more than 50% of the population.

I concur but with out government intervention progress, IMHO, stalls.

[101A]

I concur but with out government intervention progress, IMHO, stalls.

Well, there's the crux of the argument.


IMHO with govt., intervention progress stalls.

, look at the lower income family model our govt. created with the "Great Society" programs. Unprecedented illegitimacy AND single mother households - much higher numbers than BEFORE abortion was legalized!!! African American families; just as the civil rights movement was eliminating barriers to progress for them, got completely undermined by that program. They have not recovered.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, there's the crux of the argument.


IMHO with govt., intervention progress stalls.

, look at the lower income family model our govt. created with the "Great Society" programs. Unprecedented illegitimacy AND single mother households - much higher numbers than BEFORE abortion was legalized!!! African American families; just as the civil rights movement was eliminating barriers to progress for them, got completely undermined by that program. They have not recovered.

I disagree. Obama would not be where he is at today were it not for the Civil Rights movement.

[101A]

I disagree. Obama would not be where he is at today were it not for the Civil Rights movement.

I lauded the Civil Rights movement in my post - please re-read it; it was necessary; and the legislation behind it would not have passed the Democratic Congress without the strong Republican support it enjoyed.

That was not intrusive, overreaching govt. THAT was the government upholding the Cons ution and the rights of its citizens. THAT same congress then, undermined the black population by passing the Great Society programs - NOT the same as Civil Rights.

And I agree, Obama WOULD NOT be where he is without Civil Rights; but when he is elected President, there will be NO African American Senators. I don't believe that would be the case if the Welfare State didn't keep blacks down in such large numbers.

[ratm1221]

Talk out your ass much?

Abortion is NOT a winning issue for Republicans for any group but the base.

There are more people employed by Small Business in this country than by large corporations.

The '80's featured UNPRECEDENTED economic growth and job creation. Now the '70's with stagflation (10% unemployment, 12% inflation, 20% interest); there is something to be feared.

A ridiculous post.

You're full of . I don't know where the you lived in the 80's but there were absolutely zero, NO jobs, in DFW in the 80's. My dad was an electrician and there was no work for him or his entire Union because there was no construction. No growth at all. Jobs were a day by day basis. Some days they would just flat out tell you not to come to work that day.

You're ridiculous, .

[101A]

You're full of . I don't know where the you lived in the 80's but there were absolutely zero, NO jobs, in DFW in the 80's. My dad was an electrician and there was no work for him or his entire Union because there was no construction. No growth at all. Jobs were a day by day basis. Some days they would just flat out tell you not to come to work that day.

You're ridiculous, .

the RATM1221 index was low.

I'm very sorry your Dad had a rough go of it. 20,000,000 other Americans, who previously didn't have it, were able to find work. Me, and my old man for that matter, did quite well.

[JoeChalupa]

I lauded the Civil Rights movement in my post - please re-read it; it was necessary; and the legislation behind it would not have passed the Democratic Congress without the strong Republican support it enjoyed.

That was not intrusive, overreaching govt. THAT was the government upholding the Cons ution and the rights of its citizens. THAT same congress then, undermined the black population by passing the Great Society programs - NOT the same as Civil Rights.

And I agree, Obama WOULD NOT be where he is without Civil Rights; but when he is elected President, there will be NO African American Senators. I don't believe that would be the case if the Welfare State didn't keep blacks down in such large numbers.

Again I disgree. It is not the Welfare State that keeps them down and that is why Obama keeps talking about personal responsibility.

[ratm1221]

the RATM1221 index was low.

I'm very sorry your Dad had a rough go of it. 20,000,000 other Americans, who previously didn't have it, were able to find work. Me, and my old man for that matter, did quite well.

I feel sorry for you. You have a lot to learn in life my friend.

[101A]

Again I disgree. It is not the Welfare State that keeps them down and that is why Obama keeps talking about personal responsibility.

The United States Government pays for irresponsible behavior, and does not reward responsible behavior. You get what you pay for.

Check the stats for black illegitimacy before and AFTER the Great Society. Prior to it, they actually enjoyed LOWER than average illegitimacy rates - afterwards; skyrocketing. The numbers do not lie.

[101A]

I feel sorry for you. You have a lot to learn in life my friend.

I'm older than you.

I can almost guarantee I am more economically successful than you.

I am damned sure happier than you.

I think I'm doing alright in my blessed ignorance.

[JoeChalupa]

The United States Government pays for irresponsible behavior, and does not reward responsible behavior. You get what you pay for.

Check the stats for black illegitimacy before and AFTER the Great Society. Prior to it, they actually enjoyed LOWER than average illegitimacy rates - afterwards; skyrocketing. The numbers do not lie.

But again, that is not what is keeping them down and that is just a plain fact.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm older than you.

I can almost guarantee I am more economically successful than you.

I am damned sure happier than you.

I think I'm doing alright in my blessed ignorance.

WTF does age or someone's economic success have to do with anything? Talk about a ridiculous post.

[101A]

But again, that is not what is keeping them down and that is just a plain fact.

No it's not; and unfortunately, it has created a defeated mindset in the entire race; so much that almost all Welfare issues are "black" issues. They are convinced that without govt. intervention they cannot succeed.

I truly hope, in fact was telling my wife just last night, that the symbol that is Barrack Obama as president will turn that tide.

Of course, with the Congress likely passing more en lement programs; and Obama' OWN proposals calling for a DRAMATIC increase in taxation for a person that crosses the $40,000 income threshold; that WON'T encourage success (by that I mean one of his new govt. tax "credits" runs out at that point AND the income tax kicks in; making the next dollar earned MUCH more expensive than the previous).

[101A]

WTF does age or someone's economic success have to do with anything? Talk about a ridiculous post.

Dude was lecturing me on what I have to learn in life - and that he might provide the lesson. I was simply pointing out that I could, probably, learn very little from him, in any aspect of my life.

Oh, I didn't mention; I also know Jesus Christ.

[ratm1221]

I'm older than you.

I can almost guarantee I am more economically successful than you.

I am damned sure happier than you.

I think I'm doing alright in my blessed ignorance.

I do pretty well for myself, but thanks for your concern.

I'll sleep better tonight knowing you're happy the mess the country is in right now.