The Finals?
timvp's right. You guys are buying all of Cuban's . You'll look back fondly on the AJ years someday.
The problem with Dallas is Dirk Nowitzki, he's not a leader, he's as soft as you can get. He doesn't play defense and as a result he can't demand the rest of the team to defend because he doesn't. As long as Dirk is the face of that franchise they won't win the championship. Avery knew that aswell, that's why he wanted to move him so badly. One day Cuban will wake up to himself and realise that aswell.
spur fans are usually quick to point out championships. why not here?
timvp's right.
LMAO another one of you guys. Why am I not surprised?
Cuban enables Dirk's weakness. AJ tired to make him a man and he got fired. Cubes told him everything was OK and that bad man is gone now.
None of it was Saint Avery's fault. Well, it isn't now that he's gone.
Agree. As long as Dirk is there they will continue to play that run and gun and crash out early in the playoffs because that's the only style Dirk can play. That's the problem with the Mavs they don't have the mental toughness and gritt to defend and pull it out. Avery tried to make Dirk a man and implement those things but unfortunatley for him he had the wrong group of guys. Trading for Kidd was just the final nail in the coffin.
Last edited by AC#21_TD ERA; 10-20-2008 at 09:38 PM.
Avery was the problem. Not Dirk.
I said it was aj or dirk it was dirk
stupid cuban
Dirk has been nothing but exceptional the past couple of years, anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete dumbass
and ducks, you type like you are either 11 years old or mentally re ed STFU
I find the "Don Nelson gave AJ the keys to a championship team" take hilarious. The Mavs talent peaked before AJ even became coach. That '03 team with Dirk, Nash and Finley in his prime was more talented than the '06 team that beat the Spurs. That '04 team with their Big Three plus Antawn freakin' Jamison coming off the bench might have been even better than the '03 team.
The '05 Mavs team wasn't very good and AJ got them to the second round. The '06 Mavs team was improved talent wise but not as talented as '03 or '04 and he got that team almost to a damn championship. That '06 Mav team was not that talented. JHo, Terry, Stackhouse and Harris? Pretty decent talent but championship talent? No way. If that Mav team had won the championship, I'd say they would have been the least talented championship team since the '79 Sonics.
The '06 Mavs were a very, very good team but talent wise, they should have really been about a 52-win team and out in the second round. Now compare that to '03 or '04 when the Mavs had two first ballot Hall of Famers and a number of talented players and it's no contest. But Nellie was such a gimmick coach that after about one playoff game, Pop had those Nellie Mavs figured out.
I'm not ready to close the book on the Mavs' championship aspirations because Dirk is as talented as anyone in the league but I don't think bringing in Carlisle and giving Cuban even more power is heading in the right direction. At the very least, AJ wasn't afraid to bump heads with Cuban. If Carlisle doesn't stand up for himself, that ship could sink fast.
The 06 Mavs team was the most well-rounded team. They had Dampier and Diop to clog the middle on defense while they had some offensive slashers and outside shooters. Terry and Howard were in their primes and Harris was just starting to get some real good quality minutes. The Mavs in 03 were very good offensively but lacked in rebounding. Mainly defensive rebounding. They had some holes on defense that Sacramento was able to punish in the playoffs. The spurs as well. So imo 06>03 in chemistry. Talent is not as important as chemistry.
Last edited by mavsfan1000; 10-21-2008 at 12:53 AM.
It's no surprise the Mavericks made a deeper than usual playoff run when they had a few bigs that didn't end up on posters every night.
They might have had a bit more talent, but they weren't a better team. They got by using a zone defense most of the year.
That team was beset by chemistry problems and didn't play any defense. And you can't say they might have been better. They won 8 fewer games and went out in the first round to a team they beat the previous season, when they advanced to the conference finals. Games are played on the hardwood, not paper.That '04 team with their Big Three plus Antawn freakin' Jamison coming off the bench might have been even better than the '03 team.
In what world is winning 58 games and losing to the first SSOL Suns team "not very good?" Oh right, Avery took over the Bad News Bears and coached them up to overachieve.The '05 Mavs team wasn't very good and AJ got them to the second round.
They played defense, had great chemistry and featured Dirk at his apex. Avery got them to buy into his concept and they rode it all the way to the Finals. Why did the Mavs lose in the Finals? Dirk was inconsistent in that series, putting up three very good games and three mediocre ones, while Avery's buttcheeks tightened up and he altered the game plan. They ran on the Spurs and won. They slowed it down versus Phoenix and own. They should've run on Miami and if they had, there wouldn't have been anything Dwyane Wade could've done to prevent the Mavs from hoisting the LOB. But Avery clenched up.The '06 Mavs were a very, very good team but talent wise, they should have really been about a 52-win team and out in the second round.
The 06 team would beat the 03 and 04 teams in a playoff series. Avery deserves a lot of credit for the 06 team going as far as it did but so did Dirk. I find it hilarious that people want to give Avery or Dirk all the credit for the team's successes, or want to put the entire blame for Miami and Golden State on one or the other.Now compare that to '03 or '04 when the Mavs had two first ballot Hall of Famers and a number of talented players and it's no contest.
I am, but that has more to do with LA, Portland and Utah being on the ascendence than anything to do with Dallas.I'm not ready to close the book on the Mavs' championship aspirations
So they should have stuck with Avery when he had worn out his welcome and the players were no longer responding to him? What other coach out there should they have picked up, since keeping Avery was the worst thing they could have done? I think he's a good coach, but his warranty expired in Dallas. Avery is a drill sergeant type of coach, and only Sloan and Pop have the clout and the notches on the bedpost to pull that kind of .but I don't think bringing in Carlisle and giving Cuban even more power is heading in the right direction. At the very least, AJ wasn't afraid to bump heads with Cuban. If Carlisle doesn't stand up for himself, that ship could sink fast
Last edited by Findog; 10-21-2008 at 09:04 AM.
Cuban has never failed to give Avery credit for the role that he played in the team's successes. Find me a Jerry Jones-esque quote where he says 500 coaches, including Jerry Tarkanian, could've done what Avery did.
The bottom line is that Avery lost the locker room and the team was underachieving. It was time to make a change. Maybe if you got Avery's nuts off your chin you'd realize that. I don't presume to know more about the Spurs than you or timvp. You guys sure as don't know more about the Mavs than I do.
I think AJ is a weasel but any Mavs fan not saying he was the best (or 2nd if you worship Nellie) coach the Mavs have ever had is just chewing sour grapes and wanting to blame him for the choke-o-rama in the Finals. Only problem is, if you blame him for it, you have to give him credit for getting you there as well (which no other coach has done).
All Avery did was make them play stingy defense day in and day out. Players in general don't like that, so you need a coach that calls them out when they're slacking on D. Eventually, it rubs the wrong way. Most players probably think Pop, Sloan and Larry Brown are assholes, but they're successful. The things with those guys is that you need an owner that buys into that vision of winning with D, and backs them up. Cuban instead wants to buddy-buddy with the players, so that's not going to happen.
I agree AJ worn down his relationship with the locker room. At that point, either the coach goes or part of the locker room goes. Cuban chose AJ. We'll see how it pays off for him.
Avery is the third-best coach in Mavs history, behind Nellie and Motta. They both built 50-win teams from scratch, he took over a 50-win team and made them better...at least for the first two and a half years of his tenure.
There's something to be said for timing and expectations. At this point Don Nelson and his gimmicky game plans probably wont' take any team to the next level, but he's great at rebuilding. AJ could be a great "next step" kind of guy. If their order was reversed I think both would have been dismal failures in Dallas. AJ's personality probably wouldn't have done much for a franchise in the toilet, and Nellie preaching "Big O, No D" to a contender in the face of recent history would probably have gone over like a lead balloon. But as it was Nellie's up tempo, high energy game is just the sort of thing that can revitalize a franchise (the Kings, Warriors, and Suns, for instance). And without the postseason failures they probably aren't nearly as receptive to a figure like AJ who was a near 180 to Don Nelson in many ways. Don't know if I'd necessarily say one is better than the other, just that they were the right man for the job at the time.
The one glaring thing they do have in common is that they left on less than cordial terms with Cuban and no matter what happens in the coming seasons I expect that every coach the Mavs have will leave that way while he owns them.
AJ's personality definitely doesn't mesh well if he's not in control of the situation. In addition his way of motivation definitely has annoyed the members he's been associated with including the Spurs when he was a PG. Because of this, it'd be very difficult to take orders from someone with an annoying voice, personality, and bumps heads with the other chiefs on the Mavs organization repeatedly. There was no way Cuban and co, and any ballclub with a similar leadership setup, can handle AJ for a coaching contract as long as the one he had.
AJ also lost a ton of respect from the Mavs with 'lackluster' postseason performances and after you lose that, you're FUBAR.
Wow I didn't realize timvp was that big of an Avery knobslobber.
As much as I loved seeing him leave, things weren't all Avery's fault. I have homeristic hopes for this team but Carlisle along isn't going to bring about some great change. And Avery absolutely lobbied for the Kidd deal. He gave up on Devin Harris about a month into the season, anybody who actually watches the Mavericks and follows them knows that. It's hilarious to see Spurs fans who follow the Spurs acting like they know more about the Mavericks than the fans who actually follow the Mavericks. And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.
Last edited by monosylab1k; 10-26-2008 at 10:48 AM.
x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000
It's even funnier how Spurs fans didn't acknowledge this post because they know it's true.
I still remember AJ making smart adjustments against the Rockets and JVG being outcoached by him. AJ was a very good coach and his personality of a get your job done no nonsense kind of guy is the only reason Dirk stepped up. Some guys have to be pushed by the coach because they don't have the self motivation to get there on their own.
If Cuban wants to make all the top decisions for that organization he can't expect to still have the right to hold the coach accountable and point fingers when things go bad. Cuban has no one to blame but himself for what happened to the Mavs.
Don't forget how Cuban figured Steve Nash was over the hill and didn't deserve to be signed to what was it a four year deal that he got from the Suns. That decision costs them the le more than any coaching decisions made by AJ. When he let Nash walk that was the beginning of the end for the Mavs.
Since you're not being serious, I'll just
If Cuban wants to make all the decisions and coach the team let him!---That's worked pretty well for Jerry Jones.
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