Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Mavericks Nov. 4

[duncan228]

Thanks



Anybody counted how many Times Tim said umm in that interview?

I bet it was 21 times

I stopped counting the umm's long ago. It's how he talks.

Thanks for the link. I like the at ude coming from Mason and Hill. Plus Pop looks ready to implode, which is good.

I felt better after hearing it. They're playing lousy and they know it. No excuses and hopefully the right at ude to address it. I've got no problem with them figuring it out, as long as we see the effort and not just hear about it. I hope we see Pop respond tonight.

It was frustrating last night, the link was to the Sun's post game from opening night. I was surprised at how long it took them to correct it.

[temujin]

Watched only the first half.
Terrible defense by most players, except Mason.
Bowen was a ghost.
Bonner was not even close to bother Nowitski.
No hustle, no fouls.
It looked like a pre-season.

On the offense, a lot of people standing and watching.
Little circulation, lots of forced shots.

Quite a few outright bricks from JV, Bonner and Udoka.

Finley even missed 2 FTs in a row. Enough said.

It might not be a bad idea to give more minutes to the newcomers,
so that the old guard doesn't get too much exposed.

Overall, Spurs should hope for .500 while Manu is out.

[SenorSpur]

Great takes by Tiimvp, as always.

There are several concerns, just pick one.

Bruce Bowen
Another game, another unavailable conclusion regarding whether Bruce Bowen has anything left in the tank. Bowen actually played relatively well offensively, but he produced his third consecutive poor defensive showing. He had the task of slowing Terry for most of his minutes and his simply did not do so. Uncharacteristically, he was slow to fight through screens and didn’t do a good job of staying in front of him. The only good news, if you can call it that, is Bowen has never defended Terry that well. So again, we are left with more questions than answers. However, Bowen left the game with four minutes to go in the second quarter and never saw the court again. Perhaps the coaching staff has come to some sort of conclusion – or they could have simply wanted more offense on the court.

The Hurricane watch is officially out for Bowen. This is not to say that he's done, but the climate and conditions are favorable for an eminent threat. Time will tell if this is a slump or slide. This is certainly no indictment on him. However, as I keep saying, what's more bothersome than anything about his situation is there is no other established perimeter defender on the roster. If Farmer is eventually cut when Manu return, it'll be interesting to see what direction Pop goes with that final roster spot. A perimeter defender to replace him (Hairston, Gelebale) or a big to help shore up the frontline (McDyess, Watkins)

Matt Bonner
Matt Bonner started at center for the second straight game and didn’t help much at all. Defensively, he was simply no match for Nowitzki, who is too long and too talented for Bonner. Although he didn’t play horrible on defense, he was ineffective. On the other end of the court, Bonner putting up a goose egg in 20 minutes accounted for some of the offensive troubles for the Spurs on this night. Bonner did pull down three offensive rebounds, so it wasn’t a total disaster.

Injuries to the frontline have obviously handcuffed Pop's options, which means extensive court time for Bonner. He is one of the few players on the team where extended court time means diminished returns. At this point, Bonner is what he is. We can only hope that Tolliver, once he gets back, will become productive enough to surpass him in the rotation.

Kurt Thomas
After not playing at all in the first three quarters, Kurt Thomas played the entire fourth quarter. That said, he was hardly noticeable even when he was in the game. He handed out an assist within the first few moments of the quarter but then did literally nothing else. No points, no rebounds … not even a foul. Over the course of the first three games of the season, Thomas has looked like a player who has reached the end of the line in his career. He’s not moving well, doesn’t appear to be in great shape and doesn’t even seem capable of helping out unless he’s defending a large, immobile player. Hopefully he snaps out of this funk or else the Spurs just gave an $8 million contract to a player who won’t be able to be much more than an end of the bench spot player.

Probably a bigger frontline concern for me more than Bonner (whom I have no expectations) or Oberto (who I just want to be healthy) is KT. I cannot believe he looks this bad so quickly. If the hurricane watch is out on Bowen, the hurricane warning is now issued for KT - meaning there is an eminent certainty that he's finished. It's even harder for me to believe that the Spurs offered up and wasted a 1st round pick on him. KT looks like Horry did at this point last year - DONE. If KT is unable to provide any production, this will have been one of the worst trades in Spurs history. It's certainly trumps the infamous NVE acquisition, whom they signed in free agency. Ian where are you when we need you most?

Jacque Vaughn
Jacque Vaughn didn’t play horribly but he likely saw the end of his run as the backup point guard. Hill came in and showed qualities that Vaughn simply doesn’t have. Expect Vaughn to play as the third point guard once again from here on out – unless Hill hits a rookie wall at some point.

It looks to be the end of the line for Vaughn too. His play is consistent - consistently bad. He needs to give way to Hill, effective immediately and should only see court time in blowout situations.

Overall, if you throw in Finley, the Spurs have five roster spots (Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn and KT), where they are currently getting little to no production out of. Roster spots that have been critical to Pop's current rotation during this horrific start. It's no wonder the Spurs are 0-3. If this trend continues, Pop may be forced to rework his entire rotation on the fly, and inject it with the younger players and live with the results.

[MoSpur]

Less of Bowen, Bonner, Vaughn, and Finley. More of Mason, Farmer, Hill and when available more of Tolliver.

[polandprzem]

I stopped counting the umm's long ago. It's how he talks.

Yup, umm I'm catching myself on that. It does not sounds in polish as good as in english but I use it when I'm speaking polish as well

[urunobili]

Overall, if you throw in Finley, the Spurs have four roster spots (Bowen, Finley, Bonner and KT), where they are currently getting little to no production out of. Roster spots that have been critical to Pop's current rotation during this horrific start. It's no wonder the Spurs are 0-3. If this trend continues, Pop may be forced to rework his entire rotation on the fly, and inject it with the younger players and live with the results.

Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto and specially KT are giving us ZERO, NADA offensive production... all of them are expendable IMO

[SenorSpur]

Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto and specially KT are giving us ZERO, NADA offensive production... all of them are expendable IMO

Right there you have the source of the Spurs offensive woes. Their negligible contributions have forced Tony and TD to have to carry the offensive burden each and every game. They cannot afford to have a bad game. The way this thing is currently setup, it's starting to stink. Pop better get Mason and Hill acclimated - FAST!

[Spurs Brazil]

I still think Bruce can give us something but I'm sure Thomas is done.

I hope Pop plays Ian when he's healthy

Hill must be the backup PG tonight

[Flux451]

Do yall feel the unit that brought the surge should stayed in?

[polandprzem]

If Bowen will be as bad as he is right now. IT IS OVER.
He almost single covered all opposite teams best scorers and most dangerous permeter players. Spurs defense standed on TD and him. Not having Bowen there will change the philosphy and weaken the foundation of a D.

[SpursFanFirst]

Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a compe ive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode. At this point, he isn't concerned with winning, but rather figuring out which combination is going to be best a little later in the year?
A huge section of the team is new (and young). Now's the time to experiment since it's still so early.
I'm not into hitting the panic button yet. Now, if we don't win a game until December..yeah, I'll start questioning everything Spurs...until then though, I totally trust the future Hall-of-Famer known as Gregg Popovich.

[polandprzem]

Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a compe ive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode. At this point, he isn't concerned with winning, but rather figuring out which combination is going to be best a little later in the year?
A huge section of the team is new (and young). Now's the time to experiment since it's still so early.
I'm not into hitting the panic button yet. Now, if we don't win a game until December..yeah, I'll start questioning everything Spurs...until then though, I totally trust the future Hall-of-Famer known as Gregg Popovich.

Spurs can't afford to drop from the ladder

Especialy in the West


man they need to start climbing the ladder

[temujin]

The oldies played like they take it for granted that Spurs WILL make the playoffs.
Even Duncan's statements hints in this direction.

Wrong.

Four oldies -Thomas, Finley, Bowen and Oberto- are probably too much for a contender.

You need two maximum, playing no more than 20'.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, it isn't like the Spurs defense is absolutely terrible.

Yes, it is. It absolutely is. It completely, totally and in all other ways is terrible.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a compe ive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode.

Playing TD 40 minutes a night is not preseason mode.

It's a sign of desperation when you have no front line, and virtually no team outside of TD and TP.


I just pray that Pop has the heart to bench Finley if need be. I already respect Pop for cutting Bruce's minutes if he isn't playing up to par.

[SpursFanFirst]

Playing TD 40 minutes a night is not preseason mode.

It's a sign of desperation when you have no front line, and virtually no team outside of TD and TP.

...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

[Manufan909]

I know Farmer will get another chance tonight, and this time he needs to emulate Hill, even on O. Hill's a ing rookie and he's drove twice, Farmer is the leading D-League scorer, and all he can do is catch the ball and shoot a perimeter 3. Pop needs to limit Finleys and JVs minutes like he's done with Bowen. If they do play small ball, then that won't work. At least that'll mean less Bonner.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

lol no. You don't kill your superstar for the sake of combinations, you play him to get the W. If Pop wants to experiment he should play his young bunch as much as his veterans outside TD and TP.

Hopefully a win tonight will get us back on track.

[Manufan909]

...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

No, it's desperation. There are still only 3 bigs, Bonner+KT make one. Hopefully Tolliver can make it 4, not 3.5. I know Tolliver can rebound and get steals, which automatically makes him better than Bonner.

Was it just me, or did Tony seem tired? He shot WAYYYYYYYYYy too many jumpers. If they were going in I'd be cool, but all he did was miss unless he shot that one 3, or drove it.

[xtremesteven33]

The Spurs lost to 3 Good teams!

they didnt lose to a bunch of scrubby teams. The Suns wanted to beat the Spurs really bad as some kind of retrebution for last year. We couldve won that had pop called a timeout maybe.

Portland is a talented team as well. They just outrebounded us plain and simple. No Oberto there to block out and rebound really hurt us.

And the Mavericks are a good team as well. you got about 3 potential allstars in KIDD,NOWITZKI, and HOWARD. here we are with only 2. and a bunch of new guys.

No way am i in panic mode just yet. Spurs are pissed off. The only thing that worries me is that Tim and Tony will carry a whole lot of minutes just to win a game now. hopefully pop can somehow manage to control thier minutes while managing to pull off victories.

I also love the lineup that Pop had last night of....
Parker
Hill
Mason
Duncan
Oberto/Thomas

hopefully we see more of that tonight

[phxspurfan]

Spurs won't make the playoffs this year.

[Chomag]

Great write up Timvp, thanks
The thing that seems to trouble me the most is not the 0-3, although it does suck because in the west, even the 8th seed will need to have a staler winning year just to make the final cut in the playoffs..

Its more that I'm worried about TP and Timmy getting burnt out in about a month or so. More so Timmy though.

Great news to hear Hill still looking like he did in pre-season before his injury. I really am starting to fall in love with this kids game. I hope to see him break into the regular rotation because he could make an impact now.

I don't know but it truly might be time to do spring cleaning and throw out the old, used, washed up, or broken pieces, and do it now, and not when Tim is retiring, because with the right players contributing to rolls the big 3 still has some rings left in them.

[galvatron3000]

Tim and Tony carry a loarge load because Pop has put too much faith in Mike Finley when Mason at this stage is just better. Mason should start and allow Farmer the green light off the bench. Finley is going to be great grooming the shooting guards but his time has past. He may have a few night on but not enough to keep him in the current rotation. We are getting killed on the glass and can't score so if you can't get Rodman atleast put the best players you have on the floor and see what develops. Finley won't even be there next year so try something else because this is not working.

I'm not panicking either but we aren't going to be a better rebounding club with what we have unless Ian plays and does it so with that question mark, go with what you know works. Mason does a great job on the floor and defensively so start him. You bring Farmer into the fold to provide a spark because "ball go in hole...muchly" then play that dude in that role because Manu is hurt, Finley is past his prime and that what you signed these guys for. This is about winning so check your ego at the door which is what was done when Fin was brought in, who knows him going to the bench maybe the best thing for him and the club, perhaps when he does play occassionally he will do a better job with limited minutes but as it stands now what he is doing with starter minutes won't cut it against the better team and I thought the Spurs would beat Dallas easily.

[Allanon]

The losses haven't been that bad, they were against Playoff contenders. Last night's Mavs game was kind of embarrassing, I switched off it in the early 4th.

But what disturbs me most is the lack of Defense. Spurs are giving up 100 points per game, i believe they gave up something like 89 points per game last year.

And this isn't something that's fixed by Manu coming back. Manu would add scoring but he can't fix the defensive issues.

I believe this lack of D revolves around a couple of players:

1) Bowen. A wise man once said "Once father time catches you, he doesn't let go." I noticed he had lost a step last year in the WCF but it seems he's lost 3 steps more. How many times did JTerry waltz into the lane last night for a layup?

2) Kurt Thomas. Wow, this one took me by surprise, I thought KT would be serviceable this year but he looks like he's playing in mud. 50 year old Mutumbo is probably better.

3) Bonner never has and never will be a good defender.

4) I've never been high on Oberto, he's better than Bonner but that's about all I can say

People have said that Duncan's defense isn't that good this year, I think it's not so much about Timmy but the fact that he keeps having to pick up the defensive slack for the other Bigs. You've seen Duncan trying to knock some sense into Bonner when he blows his assignment and leaves Duncan out to dry.

All is not lost though, there's still Tolliver and Mahinmi waiting in the wings, we'll see if they can bring in some defense to the interior. I liked Watkins' D and energy in the pre-season and thought the Spurs should have kept him, instead of Tolliver, for that purpose.

[The Truth #6]

Tim and Tony carry a loarge load because Pop has put too much faith in Mike Finley when Mason at this stage is just better. Mason should start and allow Farmer the green light off the bench. Finley is going to be great grooming the shooting guards but his time has past. He may have a few night on but not enough to keep him in the current rotation. We are getting killed on the glass and can't score so if you can't get Rodman atleast put the best players you have on the floor and see what develops. Finley won't even be there next year so try something else because this is not working.

I'm not panicking either but we aren't going to be a better rebounding club with what we have unless Ian plays and does it so with that question mark, go with what you know works. Mason does a great job on the floor and defensively so start him. You bring Farmer into the fold to provide a spark because "ball go in hole...muchly" then play that dude in that role because Manu is hurt, Finley is past his prime and that what you signed these guys for. This is about winning so check your ego at the door which is what was done when Fin was brought in, who knows him going to the bench maybe the best thing for him and the club, perhaps when he does play occassionally he will do a better job with limited minutes but as it stands now what he is doing with starter minutes won't cut it against the better team and I thought the Spurs would beat Dallas easily.

I agree with your analysis but I believe Finley signed a TWO YEAR contract when what he deserved was no contract.

Basically, the FO didn't know what to do so they retreated into what they thought was the safe move of bringing back the old guys, namely KT and Finley, however that really was a huge gamble considering their physical limitations.

They resigned KT because they had already given up a 1st rounder for him but they should have realized he wasn't going to fix our needs. It's possible he still could help but he looks to slow to do much and possibly too old to care. Because they see him everyday I would think they could have made a more educated assessment of that before giving him that contract.

As for Finley, I don't know what they were thinking. The guys tries, he's a pro, and does the best he can. However, he's too old and slow and never was much other than a scorer and now he's only a shooter who rarely shoots well.

When Hill and Farmer entered the game it was interesting to note how much faster we were at getting to loose balls, steals, and those sort of things.

Until Ian comes back I expect to see a lot of small ball with Ime trying to man up larger sized PFs and a variety of shooters surrounding Tim.

Farmer could have been more aggressive last night but I think it's clear that his strength is spot up shooting. He drove a few times in preseason but with mixed results. He clearly wanted the ball more last night when he was in but only got it once when he was actually open. I think they could have looked to get him the ball more, at least a little bit.

However, Hill was playing well so it was good to see him assert himself so quickly. The guy is an athlete and exactly what we need right now. He could be our only lock down defender on the team right now.