Texas High Schools: 1/3 not graduating?

[Drachen]

I dont know what they are teaching right now, but from what I understand it is already almost "ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE oh and use a condom if you do it", and I do know that "abstinence only" education is at least being pushed real hard. Now while this approach is the most successful (somewhere around 100%) it is the least realistic. Dont get into all that BS about kids shouldnt be having sex either thats a different issue. Kids have been having sex since the beginning of time, even in the wholesome Ozzie and Harriet days. We need to teach them how to do it safely

[travis2]

No, I'm trying to get you to actually do a bit of thinking. Provide some figures that show that minorities have higher family size. It's not that hard.

Also, is the larger family size the cause or a symptom of the problem? Is it a by product of living in poverty or is it the a leading contributer to poverty? And is our lack of a good sex edcuation system in the public education system not a contributor to the larger family sizes?

I don't agree that family size is a leading cause of disparity like this. It may be a contributor, but it may also be a symptom at the same time.

I would argue that your reasoning for declining population values are not as simple as you'd like to make them out to be also.

You seem so afraid and so unwilling to look at this issue from a different perspective.

1. In some cases there is a cultural aspect to it. I do not mean Mexican or African or whatever...do not try to assign a racial aspect to this.

HOWEVER...it is known that in some circles, getting a good education is viewed as "being too white". So peer pressure comes into play.

2. If your family is poor, and has always been poor, there will be pressure to quit school to go to work to support your family. It has been this way as long as there has been a country. And as long as the parental outlook in these families is "hey, I didn't need no education and I ain't got no problems, the boy just needs to get off his @$$ and work", that pressure will never go away.

3. Some kids just can't handle the material. Not everyone is mentally put together to be a physicist, or a mathematician, or an expert in Elizabethan literature, or whatever. Peoples brains are individual. This isn't racism or classism...it's reality.

4. Some kids are just f***ing lazy. For whatever reason. Parents don't care, running with the wrong crowd, whatever.


There's 4 items, all relevant.

[travis2]

I dont know what they are teaching right now, but from what I understand it is already almost "ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE oh and use a condom if you do it", and I do know that "abstinence only" education is at least being pushed real hard. Now while this approach is the most successful (somewhere around 100%) it is the least realistic. Dont get into all that BS about kids shouldnt be having sex either thats a different issue. Kids have been having sex since the beginning of time, even in the wholesome Ozzie and Harriet days. We need to teach them how to do it safely

You stay the away from my kids.

Safely??? Oh sure, let the little minks anything that moves, yeah, that'll be great. Except guess what, Einstein? Condoms break. Some viruses are able to pass through the condom.

Safe sex? It's a fallacy, and idiots like you are the reason we have an STD problem. The lies have been coming from your side of the political spectrum.

[Clandestino]

I have a friend who is incredibly smart, has two degrees, and can talk about almost every subject under the sun, who failed the math part of the TASP three times. She had to pass it to sign up for classes in her last semester and she got a study book. She called me up at 11 the night before the test and I stayed at her place until 5 teaching her the test. She ended up getting 92% percentile. What I am trying to say is that re s arent the only ones who cant pass those tests.

i guess she didn't try enough hard the first 3 times... there is also such a thing as overstudying...

[desflood]

I dont know what they are teaching right now, but from what I understand it is already almost "ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE ABSTINENCE oh and use a condom if you do it", and I do know that "abstinence only" education is at least being pushed real hard. Now while this approach is the most successful (somewhere around 100%) it is the least realistic. Dont get into all that BS about kids shouldnt be having sex either thats a different issue. Kids have been having sex since the beginning of time, even in the wholesome Ozzie and Harriet days. We need to teach them how to do it safely

Edwin J. Feulner, Ph.D.
July 23, 2002
“Safe Sex”: Time To Abstain
Let’s be realistic, say critics of President Bush’s proposal to spend $135 million next year on “abstinence only” sex education: Kids are gonna be kids.
So it would be “dangerous and unnecessary” to increase spending on abstinence programs, Rep. James Greenwood, R-Pa., wrote in a letter to the president. “There is no scientific evidence that ‘abstinence only until marriage’ programs work.”
But there is. In fact, my Heritage Foundation colleague Robert Rector has found that “abstinence only” programs have a record of success that the “if you’re gonna do it, do it safely” programs can’t match.
One “abstinence only” program, for example, calls on teenagers to take a “virginity pledge.” Researchers used a sample of more than 5,000 students to evaluate it for the American Journal of Sociology. They found that taking the pledge reduces by one-third the probability that an adolescent will begin sexual activity. Pair the pledge with strong parental disapproval of pre-marital sex, and the probability that teens will become sexually active drops by 75 percent or more.
Another program, called “Not Me, Not Now,” used radio and TV ads to promote abstinence among teenagers in Monroe County, N.Y. A study published in the Journal of Health Communications found that during the period the ads were being aired, the pregnancy rate for girls aged 15 to 17 fell from 63.4 pregnancies per 1,000 girls to 49.5 pregnancies. The sexual activity rate of 15-year-olds across the county, meanwhile, dropped from 46.6 percent to 31.6 percent.
Then there’s the Abstinence by Choice program, which operates in 20 schools in the Little Rock, Ark. area. It targets seventh-, eighth- and ninth-grade students and reaches about 4,000 youths each year. A researcher at Case Western Reserve University’s School of Medicine, using a sample of nearly 1,000 students, found the program reduced the sexual activity rates of girls by about 40 percent and the rate for boys by approximately 30 percent, compared with similar students who weren’t in the program.
Other “abstinence only” programs, from Operation Keepsake in Cleveland to the Teen Aid Family Life Education Project in California and five other states, show similar results. Research conducted by the Alan Guttmacher Ins ute found that the Postponing Sexual Involvement program in Atlanta reduced sexual initiation rates among eighth-grade boys by 60 percent and among eighth-grade girls by 95 percent.

[travis2]

^^^yes!!

[TheMrPeanut]

Of course abstinence reduces the chances of pregnancy or a STD.
Any nut knows that.

[Drachen]

You stay the away from my kids.

Safely??? Oh sure, let the little minks anything that moves, yeah, that'll be great. Except guess what, Einstein? Condoms break. Some viruses are able to pass through the condom.
Safe sex? It's a fallacy, and idiots like you are the reason we have an STD problem. The lies have been coming from your side of the political spectrum.

And things like this need to be discussed in sexual education, and to dispute the fallacies that are being passed around by teenagers as truths, such as if you take a shower immediately afterwards you cant get pregnant. I have never disputed abstinance as the best way to avoid those problems, I just put forth that its unrealistic to think that kids are going to follow it. Parents REALLY REALLY want to believe that they will (OH NO NOT MY KIDS), but thats just not reality. Although I do applaud their idealism.

[travis2]

And things like this need to be discussed in sexual education, and to dispute the fallacies that are being passed around by teenagers as truths, such as if you take a shower immediately afterwards you cant get pregnant. I have never disputed abstinance as the best way to avoid those problems, I just put forth that its unrealistic to think that kids are going to follow it. Parents REALLY REALLY want to believe that they will (OH NO NOT MY KIDS), but thats just not reality. Although I do applaud their idealism.

Teach them what? That if you put a condom on everything's OK???

If you want to teach your kids that, then have at it. That's your business.

But we don't have to do jack . How I raise my kids is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You have NO RIGHTS in MY house.

And BTW...it's not IDEALISM. It's called getting the f*** up off your fat @$$ and RAISING your kids instead of depending on the government, or the schools, or "the village" to raise them FOR you.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm glad abstinence teaching reaches some kids. It's a damn shame that since it doesn't elminate teenage sex (the words premarital sex can go kiss my ass), those kids who still do have sex (and there's a large number isn't there?) don't get the proper education.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW Travis, I do want to say that you sound like a good parent. I think if you were the average parent, these conversations would be moot as would these problems.

[travis2]

I think if you were the average parent, these conversations would be moot as would these problems.

I think you're right...

(Thanks, BTW...)

[Clandestino]

regardless of what is taught kids are going to have sex... may as well teach them to do it properly...

[travis2]

[Clandestino]

how old are you? how many high school kids do you know? i know many are having sex...even the so called, "good kids"

[travis2]

41 with 2 of my own.

[desflood]

Manny, kids in public schools get complete sex ed courses pretty early on in life. Jocelyn Elders saw to that.

[desflood]

Actually, let's take another tack. Let's compare teenage pregnancy rates from the 40's and 50's to the rates today. Pretty f*cking low in comparison! You know why? Because back then, children were taught to NOT HAVE SEX UNTIL THEY WERE MARRIED. What a concept...

[Clandestino]

Actually, let's take another tack. Let's compare teenage pregnancy rates from the 40's and 50's to the rates today. Pretty f*cking low in comparison! You know why? Because back then, children were taught to NOT HAVE SEX UNTIL THEY WERE MARRIED. What a concept...

great point...

[desflood]

Study of New York Abstinence Program Finds Dramatic Decline in Teen Sexual Activity

Dr. Trevor Stammers, a senior tutor in general practice at St George's Hospital medical school in London, said research shows abstinence education was effective at delaying the age at which young people first had sex. He highlighted research from the United States which found some abstinence programs were successful. In a New York pro-abstinence program the percentage of 15 year-olds who were having sex fell from 47 percent to 32 percent after three years. He said the approach had been shown to cut teenage pregnancy rates and reduce the risk of sexually-transmitted diseases.

Writing in the Postgraduate Medical Journal, Dr. Stammers said—in light of these data-- that the United Kingdom Government's dismissal of abstinence education was "deeply regrettable". Britain has the highest teenage pregnancy rates in Europe. By the age of 13, one in 14 teenagers in England has had sex and 42 in every 1,000 girls aged 15-17 are pregnant.

Dr. Stammers warned: "It will certainly take more than condoms to reverse the tide of sexually transmitted infections engulfing young people in Britain."

In the UK over the last six years cases of chlamydia have risen by 108 percent, gonorrhea rates have doubled and syphilis is up by 500 percent.

[2centsworth]

And if it all does start in the home, why are minorities coming from homes where they aren't being set up for success? Why?

I think I have a reason for you. let's use Hispanics for example, many hispanic parents don't have highschool diplomas or college degrees compared to anglo parents. Immigration is probably the number one reason why that is. Hispanics can never catch up because of the millions of immigrants who come from Mexico who can barely speak english. This is not an anti-immgration post either, it's just a fact.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, I definetly think they issues when they come to hispanics due tend to stem a lot more from immigration and intergration issues. I'm a first generation American, and I can hold first hand account as to why that makes a situation difficult.

I'll swallow my views on America's role in damaging Mexico through certain Manifest Destiney motivated wars.

I think it's a totaly different ballgame when you speak about African American's however.

[Jekka]

Actually, let's take another tack. Let's compare teenage pregnancy rates from the 40's and 50's to the rates today. Pretty f*cking low in comparison! You know why? Because back then, children were taught to NOT HAVE SEX UNTIL THEY WERE MARRIED. What a concept...

What if you never get married? What if you get married and your partner gives you an STD they acquired before the marriage that they didn't know about because they didn't know how to use proper protection before and get tested? What if someone's not faithful (and don't use the "well you shouldn't marry them if you don't think they will be faithful" junk, because happens) and gives you an STD? It happens all the time. Waiting until marriage is a great idea, but even if you do it's not fool-proof. Education is necessary for anyone and everyone that will ever have sex.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh by the way, society doesn't live in a bubble, and I seriously doubt that raised rates of STDs are since the 50s are mainly caused by the type of sex ed offered in schools. Maybe you should take a look at a few other variables.

[desflood]

No, the raised rates of STDs among teenagers are due to them having sex when they shouldn't.