Where did this idea come from? Illegal immigrants in this country are guaranteed certain rights. Freedom from slavery, for one thing, as well as basic rights like freedom from theft, freedom from physical harm, etc etc.
there are some illegal immigrants who have no right to be there, but you got them immigrants who work and contributed to american socierty or register to pay taxes or not free loading the system or become a menace to society, those are the people america should welcome into their country aka hard working immigrants....
Translation:
"I didn't actually read the whole article, but I will give my half-assed opinion anyways."
Once again, your self-pwnage streak continues unabated.
If you are so intellectually lazy as to not read the whole of the article, why should we take your opinion to have any value whatsoever?
With statements like this, you make yourself into the internet version of the cranky old guy down the street who hangs out in shorts, black socks, and sandals, shaking his fist at the neighborhood kids. "Git outta my yard, you little bas s".
Can't you just once move beyond your intellectual comfort zone, and read something that you might not fully agree with, just to test your underlying assumptions?
hmm?
He did have the balls not to completely edit his original post, and admit his mistake.Yes, but it's still funny to me that he was 'self-owned' as it were. At least he caught his own mistake. Maybe he'll read next time before commenting.
I don't agree much with Darrin on some things, but he consistently demonstrates intellectual integrity, which is a rare commodity on the internet.
... as do a lot of pro-business conservatives.
bla bla bla "liberals bad, booga booga booga". bla bla bla
Yes, I agree. My wife is an immigrant. My point is just that even illegal immigrants have some basic rights.
I don't believe all the article. If the stated facts are substantiated, the grower would be in jail! I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.Translation:
"I didn't actually read the whole article, but I will give my half-assed opinion anyways."
Once again, your self-pwnage streak continues unabated.
If you are so intellectually lazy as to not read the whole of the article, why should we take your opinion to have any value whatsoever?
With statements like this, you make yourself into the internet version of the cranky old guy down the street who hangs out in shorts, black socks, and sandals, shaking his fist at the neighborhood kids. "Git outta my yard, you little bas s".
Can't you just once move beyond your intellectual comfort zone, and read something that you might not fully agree with, just to test your underlying assumptions?
hmm?
People lie to the press all the time, and the press makes such things up as well.
Have any evidence of wrong doing, or do you believe everything you read in the internet?
Read and learn, amigo.
When Cesar Navarrete, who pleaded guilty, was sentenced to 12 years in prison this past December, Terence McElroy of the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services offered his perspective on the crime: “Any legitimate grower certainly does not engage in that activity. But you’re talking about maybe a case a year.”
God, watching Cobra's daily punking at the hands of his own ignorance never gets old.
I missed that he was one of the brothers owning the operation. He was an illegal alien departed and returned too!
It was a Mexican Citizen running this. Not a USA citizen! He did it to his own people!
You know, I did a little more reading on links with a search by name:
search: Cesar Navarrete
Navarrete himself was a tomato picker, not the grower. He probably presented himself to the grower as bringing in the fruit for him and his friends. Anyone find an article showing the actual grower knew of these activities? Funny how Navarrete would get paid the $10 per bucket of tomatoes (going rate) but give the workers only $1.00.
Again, Navarrette was in illegal migrant worker, scamming his own people! This is what happens when you allow illegal activities. He and his brother, and other family members were incarcerated over this. Not the growers they worked for.
Stop illegal immigration.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-02-2009 at 10:43 PM.
Please show us yer links, WC. Posting your weak ass alta vista search just doesn't cut it.
Translation:
"The stated article doesn't reinforce my existing beliefs, and no, I will not ever take the step of examining any of my underlying assumptions, further, since it doens't reinforce my underlying beliefs, it MUST be lying, because I am incapable of being wrong."
(sighs)
You win. They're completely lying, and you don't have to make the effort to actually examine any of your pre-existing beliefs because of new information that might contradict those beliefs.
By the way, those socks are hideous.
He is still in the minor league compared to whottt, but it isn't for a lack of trying.
If you had actually bothered to read the whole OP article, you could have saved yourself the search:
It seems that the growers probably should have been held responsible as well.
If you hire someone to harvest your fields, you have a responsibility to know what is going on in your own field. That is basic personal ethical and financial responsibility.
Since you asked for any article that lists a grower who knew about these activities:When the Navarrete case came to light, there were no howls of outrage from growers. Or from Florida government circles. When Cesar Navarrete, who pleaded guilty, was sentenced to 12 years in prison this past December, Terence McElroy of the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services offered his perspective on the crime: “Any legitimate grower certainly does not engage in that activity. But you’re talking about maybe a case a year.”
Charlie Frost, the Collier County Sheriff’s Office detective who investigated and arrested Navarrete, disagrees. With one case wrapped up, he and prosecutor Molloy turned to several other active slavery cases. Sitting in his Naples office and pointing his index finger east, toward the fields of Immokalee, he said, “It’s happening out there right now.”
Would any grower knowingly admit to knowing about it?
If this is just the tip of the iceberg, and we are just hearing about the first case, is it reasonable to assume that at least one grower might actually have some sort of positive knowledge about the conditions?
Or do you think they all are mildly aware of the cir stances of the pickers, but look the other way anyways?
It's useless RG. He doesn't even read the posts to begin with but instead just trolls around for bait, like a fisherman. He'll repost your words without doing any more than scanning them first and then pretend to reply. The gist will be some cliche that he already had in mind, designed to piss somebody off.
"They were doing it to themselves!"
"Stop illegal immigration."
The thing that's so tantalizing about correcting WC's entries (besides their being so blatantly and consistently wrong) is that you know WC is capable of understanding the correction, but will never (ok, almost never) bother to read what is posted to begin with.
Correct me if I'm wrong WC. Do you actually read through, or do you just skim?
Last edited by Winehole23; 03-03-2009 at 10:49 AM.
I strongly disagree. I find Whottt to be more stridently and effectively obnoxious (not to WH23 personally but just generally) than WC, but also more amenable to reason.
My perspective, FWIW.
There are many of them, most with the same wording. Here is one that was different than most.
Case No: 2:08-cr-15-FtM-29SPC
If you read a few of the links, you find that what people want to call slavery is a family of illegals doing it to other illegals. The above article is a court case do ent. Part of it states:
Now check this out:Geovanni Navarrete told Cornacchia that he made $1,000.00 on every truckload of tomatoes. Giovanni Navarrete told Cornacchia that he made $10.00 for every bucket of tomatoes his workers picked. Giovanni Navarrete told Cornacchia that his workers would make a $1.00 for every bucket of tomatoes they picked.
from ICE dot GOV:
As for their agriculture business:The Navarette family owned and operated an agricultural business in Immokalee, Florida, which employed illegal aliens to perform field work. Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete additionally pleaded guilty to beating, threatening, restraining and locking workers in trucks to force them to work for them as agricultural laborers. Cesar Navarrete also pleaded guilty to re-entering the United States after being convicted of a felony and thereafter deported and Ismael Navarrete also pleaded guilty to do ent fraud. Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete face up to 35 and 25 years in prison, respectively.
From Florida Farmers dot ORG; Immokalee family sentenced for slavery:
Do you see now. Their business wasa bringing crews of pickers to farms. They were not the growers, only contracted by the growers.The Navarretes took their crews to work on farms owned by some of the state’s major tomato producers: Immokalee-based Six L’s and Pacific Tomato Growers in Palmetto. Both tomato growers are part of the Socially Accountable Farm Employers program, designed to prevent labor abuses
Even the original link says:
Hardly able to make the case that if you eat tomatoes, you are supporting slave labor."But you’re talking about maybe a case a year.”
No Sherlock. They look the other way and outsource to groups like the Navarrete's because they can pay them via 1099 and not worry about being responsible. Growers have no choice if you think about it. They know illegals work the field, but if they check, they have to get rid of their labor. They cannot pay higher wages to people to work legally, because then they cannot compete with other growers hiring illegal labor. All growers must be forced to stop hiring illegal workers. With the wide open loop-holes that exist, businesses who are ethical about such things don't last long.
Many of you have no sense of stopping illegal immigration, but this is a prime example of what happens when you selectively enforce such laws. Illegal immigration is a severe burden on our society.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-03-2009 at 01:08 PM.
Basically then, you admit growers are *forced* to countenance slavery in their own fields and gather the increase but are not in the end responsible for it. How generous of you, WC.
I think we might do good to rethink the way we're doing it before it picks up again.Many of you have no sense of stopping illegal immigration, but this is a prime example of what happens when you selectively enforce such laws. Illegal immigration is a severe burden on our society.
No, they are forced to allow illegal workers. When they turn a blind eye to the hiring practices of their contractors, they don't know such things might be happening. If they try to disallow illegal workers, then they put themselves out of business because their compe ion is doing it.
BTW, thanks for the detailed links about Mr Navarrete WC. It's much appreciated.
I disagree, but you may have a point here. There's probably not enough evidence in the courts to establish a sigma.
As to scientific verifiability of the quote in the thread le, the work is yet to be done, but as to the veracity of the tale told there is very little doubt whatsoever. It is known to a legal certainty.
cf, steady trickle of news upstream"But you’re talking about maybe a case a year.”
Face it, boss: it's the custom. You suggested so yourself. In my own very brief searches I found slavery cases from the eighties and nineties in Florida. It's hardly unheard of.
where did you develop such powerful language? I highly admire the way you put things
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