Props to Carmelo

[Obstructed_View]

Findog, at your avatar.

I'll kill a snitch.

[Findog]

According to the stats, you're in better hands with Ricky Davis at the end of games than Kobe Bryant

[DrHouse]

I'll never forgive Horry for 2003.

Mother er went like 2/19 from 3pt land and missed the one 3 that could have changed the series.

[DrHouse]

According to the stats, you're in better hands with Ricky Davis at the end of games than Kobe Bryant

Which is why these stats are useless.

[Findog]

Findog, at your avatar.

I'll kill a snitch.

I will say this. I ing hate the Nuggets now. They are a y bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

[Obstructed_View]

Which is why these stats are useless.

They're "useless" only because they don't prove that Kobe's the most bestest ever.

[DAF86]

This is one time you are being foolish ...and i think you are one of the best posters on this site.
Stats are not the best indicator watch the games.
Of course Kobe's percentage sucks cuz he takes more than ANYONE plus he has been in the position to take many and never shies away from it.
MJ mmissed a lot as well but made a lot ...just like Kobe ...
You can take Melo more power to you ...if it's just a hot I have him rated high as well ...but over Kobe you just lost some cool points.
And as far as Lebron goes great plyer but not the best yet. hat is like saying Bosh or Amare or Dhoward are better than duncan ...that is foolish athletic talent doesnt make you the best ...

Since when taking more shots makes your shooting % decrease? taking stupid selfish shots over two guys makes your shooting % decrease.

And about that last part: you're right, foolish athletic talent doesn't make you the best. Getting the best record on the league with Mo Williams as your best teammate makes you the best.

[timvp]

Ahh "shortbus" mature.
I went and praised you ...you but you are dropping another notch here. attack me because I disagree.

Bro, I that was directed to Dr. House. Check the quote again.

I'm sure there are a lot of Laker Fans and non-Laker Fans who would pick Kobe. It's not a bad choice because he's obviously a great clutch player and the best finisher in the game. But personally, last shot, Carmelo has done it again and again and again. It's true he hasn't been on the biggest of stages but he was clutch in college while winning a championship without having Shaq on his team at Syracuse and he's been clutch in the NBA literally every season.

Overall, Carmelo is a bit overrated as a player. I don't even like him that much because he seems to in love with his stats. But he's damn clutch on final shots. This year, he shot 57% from the field and 59% on threes during clutch situations. Those are insane numbers for a go-to player on a good team.

But if Laker Fan wants to pick Kobe, that's fine. If I'm making a list, he's going to be in the top five. He just doesn't happen to be number one on my list.

[Findog]

Which is why these stats are useless.

Ricky Davis is better at taking last second shots than Kobe Bryant. I'm not selectively pulling one instance of Davis making a last-second shot in a regular season game whereas Kobe missed an off-balance three at the buzzer in a playoff game on the road with two guys in his grill. Davis' superiority to Bryant in this realm has been repeatedly borne out again and again. You can't argue against math, Laker fan.

[Killakobe81]

this is silly % means crap ...
Melo has a good percentage and as hit a lot in the REGULAR SEASON
Timvp check your history Kobe has a gamewinner vs. Phoenix ...
the clinching tip in vs the Pacers in the Finals
The game tying jumper to force OT vs. the Pistons in the FINALS and that is just off the top of my head I also believe a game winner vs. the SPurs in teh playoffs (or maybe to go up 4)

Point is he has done it more times regardless of % and again when healthy manu has done it more as well yes they are older ...as a former HS coach i take the senior who has done it for 4 years over the freshman that has done it for 1 game.

and I love melo i watched his run in colege and i think he is better offensive player than Lebron or Wade ...

[Obstructed_View]

I will say this. I ing hate the Nuggets now. They are a y bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

Yep. There was a big disucssion on the Mavs postgame about KMart being upset about being called a thug by Mavs fans. I wondered why nobody said "umm...but he IS a thug". If we want to specify that he's a thug only in basketball, should we start using the hockey term "goon"? Of course, that sounds like "coon" so I bet Kmart would need his sister to take issue with that.

[timvp]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

[DAF86]

Ricky Davis is better at taking last second shots than Kobe Bryant. I'm not selectively pulling one instance of Davis making a last-second shot in a regular season game whereas Kobe missed an off-balance three at the buzzer in a playoff game on the road with two guys in his grill. Davis' superiority to Bryant in this realm has been repeatedly borne out again and again. You can't argue against math, Laker fan.

Well, maybe Kobe's team would be better off with somebody else taking a wide open shot than with him taking an "off-balanced three with two guys in his grill."

[Findog]

Part of why I bet Kobe shoots a poor % is because he almost always takes the last shot for the Lakers in these situations. I'm sure that he doesn't have to even verbally demand that the play be run for him, it's done to placate his Alpha Male aping of MJ...and the Lakers had else besides him in the post-Shaq/pre-Pau era. Because he wants to be Jordan, it's probably anathema to him to pass out of a double team to a wide-open teammate who has a good look. And teams can adjust accordingly by trapping and doubling him in these catch and shoot situations.

[timvp]

I will say this. I ing hate the Nuggets now. They are a y bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

Yeah, I can't wait for the Nuggets to implode. Kenyon Martin is a gigantic bag but he is only an average bag on that team.

I don't want the Nuggets to win the championship .... so I might have to actually root for the Lakers to beat them. Denver lacks anything close to humbleness right now.

[JoeTait75]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

Chauncey's clutch prowess is overrated. Cavaliers stymied him in the Playoffs with Eric Snow on defense.

Carmelo is a beast. And at Lake Show Fan being butt-hurt at the notion that there might be another great player in this league besides #24. Get over it.

[Killakobe81]

When healthy out of current guys Im taking ...
1. Kobe
2. Manu
3. Pierce/Allen
4. Wade
5. Lebron
6. Melo

What is the common denominator? ALL of the top 5 have not only hit clutch regular season shots but have hit them in all 4 rounds of the playoffs INCLUDING the FINALS ...

I agree Melo is great in very last second regular season games and hit this first one in the playoffs but come on ...seriously you take him over that top 5?
Really last posession 5 seconds or les and you take Melo? AFTER ONE playoff game and because you crunched numbers?
Brilliant.
And dont be fooled b my moniker i dont think kobe walks on water ..Magic is my all time favorite Laker an Kobe does NOT make all time 5 ...(Magic, MJ, Bird duncan Kareem)
But he is my fave current player and is regarded by players, coaches media as the best clutch player in the game today even if Lebron is considered the better player now by everyone except haters, Lebron worshipers and peole he has torched along the way.

[monosylab1k]

When it comes to taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe any day over Carmelo. But I'll take Carmelo any day over Dirk.

*Cue Ghazi or one of his trolls.*

[Findog]

Yeah, I can't wait for the Nuggets to implode. Kenyon Martin is a gigantic bag but he is only an average bag on that team.

I don't want the Nuggets to win the championship .... so I might have to actually root for the Lakers to beat them. Denver lacks anything close to humbleness right now.

I just can't associate JR Smith, Kenyon Martin, Methbird and Melo with anything remotely resembling respect for the game. Well, that's not fair, I like Birdman, but congratulations on being this year's 04-05 Sonics and 07-08 Hornets. You can stop sucking each other's s now and get over yourselves.

[timvp]

When healthy out of current guys Im taking ...
1. Kobe
2. Manu
3. Pierce/Allen
4. Wade
5. Lebron
6. Melo

What is the common denominator? ALL of the top 5 have not only hit clutch regular season shots but have hit them in all 4 rounds of the playoffs INCLUDING the FINALS ...

I agree Melo is great in very last second regular season games and hit this first one in the playoffs but come on ...seriously you take him over that top 5?
Really last posession 5 seconds or les and you take Melo? AFTER ONE playoff game and because you crunched numbers?
Brilliant.
And dont be fooled b my moniker i dont think kobe walks on water ..Magic is my all time favorite Laker an Kobe does NOT make all time 5 ...(Magic, MJ, Bird duncan Kareem)
But he is my fave current player and is regarded by players, coaches media as the best clutch player in the game today even if Lebron is considered the better player now by everyone except haters, Lebron worshipers and peole he has torched along the way.

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

[Killakobe81]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

But i bet those 6 wre huge but i agree he is overrated ...

I also put duncan there espcially if it's ost play but again if you look at stats duncan is 100% on game tying playoff 3's ...

But i still rather have Manu take it even though the %'s favor duncan because Im not a stat like Hollinger ...

[Obstructed_View]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

Yeah, I think Manu's great to have for a fourth quarter when you need a lift, but for every layup against Phoenix, there's a turnover that leads to a Kevin Martin layup.

[Killakobe81]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

I agree duncan is more clutch but look at a coach's perspective if the play breaks down ...Manu can drive shoot and is great FT shooter that is why he gets the nod over Duncan but if play is executed who wouldnt choose duncan?

But taht is like choosing kerr or Paxson over MJ if they are wide open of course they are better clutch shooters but I still take MJ

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, I think Manu's great to have for a fourth quarter when you need a lift, but for every layup against Phoenix, there's a turnover that leads to a Kevin Martin layup.

I wont lie ...Manu is can kill you with To's BUT he has been more clutch than not in the biggest games ...regular season is for chumps

[DAF86]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

I can't remember many game-winning shots (made or took) by Manu with the Spurs. The ones I remember are:

Made: Timberwolves, Milwaukee, Memphis and Phoenix last season.

Missed: New Jersey in the 2003 finals and the lay-up against Detroit in 2005 where Duncan then had the tip-in to win it in game 5.

For a "closer" Manu doesn't have a lot of last second shots taken.