Trade revisited Thread

[chubster]

The way I view the Gasol trade is the Lakers finally getting equal value for Shaq. They traded arguable the most dominant big in the game at the time for not even one all star, that's lame. You trade Shaq you should get one all star back, Lamar is a nice player, but no all star. So they turned Butler into Kwame and then Kwame into Gasol and they got their all star.

Don't you know? When the Lakers are the one that's getting raped on a deal, all is fine in the world. But when they acquire something good like Ariza and Gasol, it must be conspiracies.

And the comedic value lies on the fact that the ones screaming for conspiracy were not the fans of the Lakers' trading partners but rather other fans who are bitter about it.

[baseline bum]

Nostradamus, are we? Would you say Brook Lopez and Kevin Love were so-so big men? Look at their numbers and compare it with Gasol's. Hey, even one of the poster admitted that he would want Gasol starting for the Spurs. Sounds like double standard to me.

Kevin Love and Brook Lopez are 21.

Lakers fans prefer him than Jordan Farmar and he was being acquired as back up for Mike Conley anyway who was posting great numbers a few months before last season ended. He was supposed to be a role player.

Crittendon was crap. Laker fans were stupid for liking him.

It's funny how anyone have the gall to justify Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand and Vince Carter trade but keep clinging to the conspiracy theory when it comes to Gasol. Those players, at the time they were traded were better players than Gasol and they were traded for even less assets.

Gasol wasn't a league pariah like Wallace (think Iverson by the end of this season), Marc Gasol was never projected as the next Garnett like Chandler was, and Pao Gasol never quit on his team and faked injuries like Carter did in Toronto.

[chubster]

Kevin Love and Brook Lopez are 21.

So? Are you saying big men stop improving at 24?
Brook Lopez is a stud and if the Lakers had a talent like him, they wouldn't need to do the Gasol trade in the first place.

Crittendon was crap. Laker fans were stupid for liking him.

That's what they say about Ariza, Powell, Luke Walton and Shannon Brown. Without those guys, the Lakers were not winning the championship.

Let Mitch Kupchak be the talent evaluator, ok? You just stay bitter and stupid.

Gasol wasn't a league pariah like Wallace (think Iverson by the end of this season), Marc Gasol was never projected as the next Garnett like Chandler was, and Pao Gasol never quit on his team and faked injuries like Carter did in Toronto.

Oh? Suddenly we stop judging the trade by talent alone and start getting into the personality of those players? What kind of reputation Pau Gasol has build in Memphis during his tenure that pissed his fans to the point that they were asking him to be traded?

Don't believe me?
Read this article;
http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/01/22...demands-trade/

“Privately, the organization is growing dissatisfied with the effort Gasol has brought to work. The perception is that Gasol’s lackadaisical defensive and rebounding performances coupled with inconsistent offense are by design to emphasize his desire for a trade. Asked his thoughts on the team’s direction, Gasol sounded concerned. ‘I don’t really know the direction of the franchise,’ he said before adding that he ultimately wants to play for a winner.”

Yeah, keep using Rasheed Wallace and Vince Carter's personality as the reason that their trade was fair.
And who cares if Chandler was rumored to be the next Garnett? Gerald Green was rumored to be the next T-mac but I don't see GMs fawning over him. When John Paxson is a re ed talent evaluator, you can't place the blame on "hype" and justify it as giving Elton Brand, an MVP candidate at one point in his career, away for nothing.

[timvp]

lol sportsfrog

[chubster]

lol sportsfrog

Peter Vecsey?

[baseline bum]

Let Mitch Kupchak be the talent evaluator, ok? You just stay bitter and stupid.

You got both covered pretty well, so I'll leave them for you. Kupchack did a great job evaluating Kwame.

Oh? Suddenly we stop judging the trade by talent alone and start getting into the personality of those players? What kind of reputation Pau Gasol has build in Memphis during his tenure that pissed his fans to the point that they were asking him to be traded?

Don't believe me?
Read this article;
http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/01/22...demands-trade/


Yeah, keep using Rasheed Wallace and Vince Carter's personality as the reason that their trade was fair.

It's obvious there wasn't a lot of demand for either of them because they were both widely viewed as huge cancers. Carter's reputation around the league was exactly what Iverson's is right now.

And who cares if Chandler was rumored to be the next Garnett? Gerald Green was rumored to be the next T-mac but I don't see GMs fawning over him. When John Paxson is a re ed talent evaluator, you can't place the blame on "hype" and justify it as giving Elton Brand, an MVP candidate at one point in his career, away for nothing.

Gerald Green might have been called the next TMac by idiot fans like you, but scouts and GMs had Chandler as the next KG. That's not giving Brand away for nothing. That's trading Brand because your GM sincerely believed it was worth the gamble for the guy who was supposed to be an NBA star. No one has ever had Marc Gasol pegged as anything but a rotation player.

[chubster]

You got both covered pretty well, so I'll leave them for you. Kupchack did a great job evaluating Kwame.

He screwed up on that one and one the Shaq trade. I won't even deny that.

It's obvious there wasn't a lot of demand for either of them because they were both widely viewed as huge cancers. Carter's reputation around the league was exactly what Iverson's is right now.

Carter's reputation around the league is irrelevant. The fact that Rob Bab was fired after such a trade was testament enough on how pissed Raptors fans and owners at him on the blunder. But as a Raptor fan, I can guarantee you that we never saw him as a "cancer". Quiter, big baby and lazy, yes but a cancer like stephon Marbury, he was not.

scouts and GMs had Chandler as the next KG.

Proof it.

No one has ever had Marc Gasol pegged as anything but a rotation player.

Proof it.

[baseline bum]

Carter's reputation around the league is irrelevant. The fact that Rob Bab was fired after such a trade was testament enough on how pissed Raptors fans and owners at him on the blunder. But as a Raptor fan, I can guarantee you that we never saw him as a "cancer". Quiter, big baby and lazy, yes but a cancer like stephon Marbury, he was not.

LOL, so you just admitted to being a bandwagon Laker fan?

[YellowFever]

Now you've gone and done it chubster.

You were talking facts and they were talking opinions and they got you talking opinions now.

LoL.

Nice read, guy.

But give it up.

They're going to believe what their heart tells them to believe.

Edit: see the post before mine as proof.

[chubster]

LOL, so you just admitted to being a bandwagon Laker fan?

I'm a fan of both team. I got my fav team as Raptors but the mod here changed it to LA.

[baseline bum]

Now you've gone and done it chubster.

You were talking facts and they were talking opinions and they got you talking opinions now.

LoL.

Nice read, guy.

But give it up.

They're going to believe what their heart tells them to believe.

Edit: see the post before mine as proof.

So you're also on the Gasol was a pariah like Iverson, Carter, Rasheed bandwagon too?

[chubster]

So you're also on the Gasol was a pariah like Iverson, Carter, Rasheed bandwagon too?

There were never such bandwagon. You created that to justify your bitterness.

[monosylab1k]

Proof it.

Proof it.

I generally avoid spelling smack.....but....well.....this is Lakerfan we're talking about....

[monosylab1k]

Proof it rofl

[MiamiHeat]

b

[Trainwreck2100]

Brand wasn't being offered anything from the Clips. He was RFA but he didn't want to sign anything less than the max so the Bulls did the S&T with the Clips who had salary cap to absorb Brand's contract without giving back equal salaries in return. But here's the catch; The Bulls could let him become an unrestricted FA and still not worry about losing him for nothing. Why? Because like I said before, he wanted nothing less than the max and the Bulls could offer him more max than any other team because of his bird rights. Other than that, the Bulls held all the aces.


Again, The Bulls held all the leverages. All teams do, actually. Why do you think The Cavs had no problem letting Anderson Varejao become an UFA? s.

he didn't become a UFA if he was a UFA he would be playing for the bulls right now

That's what happened with Elton Brand. They had no problem whatsoever letting Brand become UFA but then the Clips came knocking with Chandler and Skinner to offer. They took it, even when they held all the leverages with Brand. Why do you think they did that? They must have liked what they saw at that time.

If you think RFAs are ever in a position to hold a franchise hostage, you must be one gullible mf-er.

Brand wouldn't have been a UFA he was restricted and agreed to a max deal with the Clippers, if he didn't sign with the Bulls for the max+bird he would have still signed with the Clips for the max. Brand was leaving regardless, they could have let him walk, he would have had less money, but still the max, and they would come away with nothing.

The only thing Brand had as leverage was if he became disgruntled for an entire season due to not signing an extension.

That's not what would have happened because he would sign an offer sheet with the clips for the max, then the bulls wouldn't match then he would be a clipper

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I would have gladly discussed and argued but you lack basic knowledge of how NBA deals work, CBA and you're illiterate to boot.

Congrats on your le, I see it's not as sweet when tons of people pop up and become extremely defensive over the collusion, in fact I'm sure some of you really think you actually got screwed right? So nothing to argue here. I don't see any Spurs fans starting threads about this 'deal' , only Laker fans. Get over it, 28 other teams already have.

[chubster]

Brand was leaving regardless, they could have let him walk, he would have had less money, but still the max, and they would come away with nothing.

And that was the point I was trying to make all along. The Bulls still had all the leverages when it came to Brand. Had they not been so high on Chandler, they would just call Brand's bluff because signing and trading him when he was a RFA or when he was an UFA made no difference whatsoever to the Bulls.
You think Brand's going to just sign with the Clips knowing full well that he'd have more money with a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted? Not in a million years.
Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing. That player must have to personally despise his old team's management to take less money just to leave them with nothing.

That's not what would have happened because he would sign an offer sheet with the clips for the max, then the bulls wouldn't match then he would be a clipper

Brand wouldn't signed the offer sheet knowing the Bulls could offer more. Even when he's planning to walk from them, he still would insist on a sign and trade because he gets more money that way. Actually if Brand had signed the offer sheet, he would be helping the Bulls by offering his service for less money (because they will definitely match it). That has never happened except for ring chasers.

Let's just make this simple rather than arguing back and forth on Brand's intention. John Paxson got a pass for making a gamble on Tyson Chandler but Chris Wallace was crucified for making a gamble on Marc Gasol (who hd proven that he's light years ahead of a rookie Chandler) and 11M worth of cap space.

How the did that happen?

[chubster]

I don't see any Spurs fans starting threads about this 'deal' , only Laker fans.

I made this thread to bait those who are still bitter about the Gasol trade and therefore consider Lakers' 15th le to be illegitimate.

Seeing how many replied, I say you must be ing blind.

[Trainwreck2100]

they would just call Brand's bluff because signing and trading him when he was a RFA or when he was an UFA made no difference whatsoever to the Bulls.

it would actually make a whole season's difference

And that was the point I was trying to make all along. The Bulls still had all the leverages when it came to Brand. Had they not been so high on Chandler,
You think Brand's going to just sign with the Clips knowing full well that he'd have more money with a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted? Not in a million years.
Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing. That player must have to personally despise his old team's management to take less money just to leave them with nothing.

Brand wouldn't signed the offer sheet knowing the Bulls could offer more. Even when he's planning to walk from them, he still would insist on a sign and trade because he gets more money that way. Actually if Brand had signed the offer sheet, he would be helping the Bulls by offering his service for less money (because they will definitely match it). That has never happened except for ring chasers.

Let's just make this simple rather than arguing back and forth on Brand's intention.

How the did that happen?

Brand was leaving regardless, to the other team. the Bulls didn't need to give him a sign and trade. Brands leaving and all the leverage they had were his bird rights, essentially they traded Brand's bird rights (cause he was eaving anyway) for chandler. Yes he could get more money from the Bulls but they were never going to keep him to begin with. They got something back for paying nothing

John Paxson got a pass for making a gamble on Tyson Chandler but Chris Wallace was crucified for making a gamble on Marc Gasol (who hd proven that he's light years ahead of a rookie Chandler) and 11M worth of cap space.

I wasn't aware that Pau was a FA and was going to leave regardless.

Gms don't get crucified for sign and trades because their player was already leaving the next season.

[Trainwreck2100]

I made this thread to bait those who are still bitter about the Gasol trade and therefore consider Lakers' 15th le to be illegitimate.

Seeing how many replied, I say you must be ing blind.

OMFG 8 Spurs fans replied 1 of them was to tell you your threads were being merged. The Spur fan with the most posts, me is trying to explain to you the difference between RFA and UFA since you don't mr "when the cavs let anderson varejao become an UFA"

[chubster]

Brand was leaving regardless, to the other team. the Bulls didn't need to give him a sign and trade.

Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing.

I wasn't aware that Pau was a FA and was going to leave regardless.

Neither was Brand. He was going to leave because the Bulls didn't want to pay him not because he was a RFA. Had the Bulls offered him the sign and trade when he's an UFA a year later, he would've taken it in a heartbeat because the other alternative was signing with another team for less money.

Same thing happened with Gasol. The decision was purely financial.

OMFG 8 Spurs fans replied 1 of them was to tell you your threads were being merged. The Spur fan with the most posts, me is trying to explain to you the difference between RFA and UFA since you don't mr "when the cavs let anderson varejao become an UFA"

Obviously I've been paying attention to the general consensus on this board has when it comes to the Gasol trade. The response I got from this trade just confirms that my observation was right.

"Collusion", "conspiracy", "gift", "hush hush", not just in this thread but in others.

The reason why you keep arguing about Brand's intention was a direct result of not accepting the Gasol trade as fair anyway.

[Trainwreck2100]

Neither was Brand. He was going to leave because the Bulls didn't want to pay him not because he was a RFA. Had the Bulls offered him the sign and trade when he's an UFA a year later, he would've taken it in a heartbeat because the other alternative was signing with another team for less money.

That would have never happened he would have been in a Clippers uniform when the Bulls didn't match the offer made when he was a RFA. You seem to have this crazy idea that teams can block RFAs from leaving, by telling them they can;t go, that's not what was meant by restricted. The only way a team can block a player leaving is by matching offers.

Obviously I've been paying attention to the general consensus on this board has when it comes to the Gasol trade. The response I got from this trade just confirms that my observation was right

No you don't understand how RFA works, if you did, then you would know that once Brand agreed in principle to the terms the clips offered he was gone. The Bulls would have lost their best player with nothing in return. So rather then get nothing they got tyson chandler, and tyson chandler>nothing.

[chubster]

That would have never happened he would have been in a Clippers uniform when the Bulls didn't match the offer made when he was a RFA.

Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing.

You seem to have this crazy idea that teams can block RFAs from leaving, by telling them they can;t go, that's not what was meant by restricted. The only way a team can block a player leaving is by matching offers.

And you have this crazy idea that Brand would actually signed the offer sheet when he's getting less money from the Clips. Was-not-going-to-happen.

The Bulls would have lost their best player with nothing in return. So rather then get nothing they got tyson chandler, and tyson chandler>nothing.

Let say we live in a fantasy world where Brand would actually signed the offer sheet and played for the Clips for less money.
Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner were the best Paxson could get for him? Really? Not even draft picks?

Let's call a spade a spade, ok? The Bulls got raped on that deal.

[Trainwreck2100]

And you have this crazy idea that Brand would actually signed the offer sheet when he's getting less money from the Clips. Was-not-going-to-happen.


Let's call a spade a spade, ok? The Bulls got raped on that deal.

Brand was going to get payed the max by the Clips, the bulls weren't going to pay him the max. If the bulls were going to pay him the max they would have agreed to match the Clips offer. That's how RFA work. He would have got the max from the clips anyway THE MAX. He was going to be gone the next season, and he would be making MAX money. The bulls weren't going to pay the max, the bulls wouldn't match. He was signed to the max to be traded. If the Bulls didn't agree to the S&T Brand would have left anyway WITH A MAX CONTRACT and the Bulls would be left with nobody.

Let say we live in a fantasy world where Brand would actually signed the offer sheet and played for the Clips for less money.
Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner were the best Paxson could get for him? Really? Not even draft picks?

No because in this fantasy world he's already on the clippers, why would the clippers trade for a player that's already on their team.