North Korea threatens to "wipe the USA off the map"

[LnGrrrR]

Consider that they hold $1 trillion of our debt, that their currency is purposely and extremely undervalued and that theyre a growing nation of over 1 billion people.

Now, factor in our economic decline, our insurmountable debt (now at $13 trillion without factoring in Medicare/MedicAid and Social Security promises) and the complete lack of a realistic view of the entire situation from President to citizen and I would argue that the scales are as balanced as they have ever been.

Something could tip those scales.

A point to bring up is that the yuan is valuable BECAUSE it's undervalued deliberately. If China wasn't playing around with their yuan, then it would be less 'valuable' to other countries.

[LnGrrrR]

Our grandchildren will be reading about probably the quickest, most subversive
Cold War that ended with the obliteration of an opponent. It will be studied and analyzed and admired by anyone not a US citizen.

Germany doesnt much like reading or teaching about WW2 much, either. Theyre not delusional, just prideful. Same would go here. Outfoxed....handily.

I'm not quite as pessimistic as you. Russia had a much larger area to cover, and didn't have a strong GDP backing it up IIRC.

I think we'll adjust and recover; it will just take awhile. It would help if we stopped getting into wars too.

[sam1617]

Ummm, no. Not even close.

For example, in my line of work (automotive) there are certain entry criteria one must have if they want to do business.

The lowest formalized version is called ISO. Thats the lowest entry level qualification required. The hierarchy goes way up from there (2207, TS, etc, etc).

The World Bank and IMF work the same way, in effect.

"Oh, you want to sell you whats-its in the US? You do know we deal only with other Club Members, dont you? Yeah, yeah its cool. Youre just going to have to go ahead and get with the World Bank and have them look you over, make sure all is right with you, then we'll talk."

The rest is history.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that your nation or company has to work with the World Bank and IMF. You can still grow your nations economy internally, and avoid running up debt or reliance on foreign powers.

[DarkReign]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that your nation or company has to work with the World Bank and IMF. You can still grow your nations economy internally, and avoid running up debt or reliance on foreign powers.

While true, what youre suggesting is taking the China route. That takes a looooong time. Some countries dont have the means or resources to last that long, especially South American countries that arent rich with natural resource.

You can only sell so much jungle.

[sam1617]

While true, what youre suggesting is taking the China route. That takes a looooong time. Some countries dont have the means or resources to last that long, especially South American countries that arent rich with natural resource.

You can only sell so much jungle.

I would say that if thats the case, chances are getting loans from the World Bank isn't the greatest idea. I'm not arguing that its not freaking hard to run a country debt free, I'm just saying thats the way nations should try. While harder in the short term, it will keep you from collapsing when the rest of the worlds economies do, leaving you to pick up the pieces, since you are the last one standing.

[DarkReign]

A point to bring up is that the yuan is valuable BECAUSE it's undervalued deliberately. If China wasn't playing around with their yuan, then it would be less 'valuable' to other countries.

Right, but the Yuan's only value is with the Chinese. When your currency is artificially low, you can make goods for "less" cost, so to speak. Which keeps their GDP artificially lower because its Gross Domestic Product, that is, how much did all the your country makes sell for?

That the yuan is low in value deflates that number, but its a cheaper good in comparison so it sells wildly.

Now, one could argue that the adjustment in the yuan would create more compe ion in areas the Chinese make their money.

But IMO, that new price compe ion is unlikely to offset the HUGE gains they would make having to sell their products for an increased price/value while the cost associated to make them in a giant, isolated and independant country like China would remain the same. Factor in their hybrid government and their cost in labor and such would not nearly rise to the value of good sold. Such is the advantage of ultra-nationalistic people like the Asian world tends to be (Japan and China in particular).

Im no economist though. Ive stated that many times here, so Im listening.

[DarkReign]

I would say that if thats the case, chances are getting loans from the World Bank isn't the greatest idea. I'm not arguing that its not freaking hard to run a country debt free, I'm just saying thats the way nations should try. While harder in the short term, it will keep you from collapsing when the rest of the worlds economies do, leaving you to pick up the pieces, since you are the last one standing.

While I admire your altruism, you and I both know the tendencies of human nature and more to the point, Western thinking.

[sam1617]

While I admire your altruism, you and I both know the tendencies of human nature and more to the point, Western thinking.

Yeah, theres a reason why civilizations fall, and at the center of it, IMO, its the lack of drive by the individuals that make up that civilization. Once you are unwilling to work for your luxuries, things start to go down hill really fast.

[DarkReign]

Yeah, theres a reason why civilizations fall, and at the center of it, IMO, its the lack of drive by the individuals that make up that civilization. Once you are unwilling to work for your luxuries, things start to go down hill really fast.

Easy credit and prolonged, low interest debt are to America what Slave labor/population was to Rome.

[sam1617]

Easy credit and prolonged, low interest debt are to America what Slave labor/population was to Rome.

And easy access to gold was to Spain. And cheap goods from colonies for the British Empire.

[RandomGuy]

Because of where Seoul is, if NK chose to launch an attack, they could destroy Seoul before SK or the U.S. could respond, and if the U.S. or SK tried to act pre-emptively, NK could take out Seoul before its weapons could be neutralized.

If NK aims a nuclear missile at Hawaii and tries to blackmail the U.S. with it, which appears to be the endgame of all this, it will be necessary to destroy the country, although that means we also are signing on for the destruction of much of South Korea including Seoul.

The can has been kicked down the road so long that the end of the road is close by.

Now I don't know what China thinks of all this. It would be in everybody's best interest for China simply to invade North Korea, destroy the regime, and occupy the country.

All China really has to do is to stop the shipments of fuel and food that prop their puppets up.

But, I do see the whacky little man in Pyongyang forcing the Chinese to step up to the plate at some point.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I think China and Russia both are secretly pushing N. Korea to challenge us so that we can reveal our missle interecepting capabilities. It makes alot of sense from Russia's pov.