Battle Blog: Manu Ginobili Will Be An All-star Next Year

[ALVAREZ6]

Props to Manny, good call.


@ Smeagol calling Manny's argument weak, it was right on the money.

[smeagol]

Props to Manny, good call.


@ Smeagol calling Manny's argument weak, it was right on the money.

Re-read Manny's arguments. What he claims are the reasons for Manu not making the ASG ever again were valid reasons in 2004, the year he made it. That's why I don't believe they are solid arguments. But hey, that's just me. Other people saw him as the blogger winner and I respect their opinions.


I also give Manny props for his call (of Manu not making the AS, not of the reasons why he hasn't and will not in the future), although if Manu continues to play as he did since he came back from his injury, he might have a shot.

Alvarez: Allow me to let you in a little secret. The real reason why Manu did not make the ASG last year is . . .




. . . he played nowhere near at an AS level. Nothing to do with his minutes and very little to do with guys like Mike Bibby, JR and Finley.

[ALVAREZ6]

Well, he did mention Manu's freshness being a big role, and is tied in with injuries, along with all the big names in the west.

[xamila rey]

nice sig alvarez6

[ShoogarBear]

Anything beats his old one!

You were doing that to his old one?

[MannyIsGod]

Re-read Manny's arguments. What he claims are the reasons for Manu not making the ASG ever again were valid reasons in 2004, the year he made it. That's why I don't believe they are solid arguments. But hey, that's just me. Other people saw him as the blogger winner and I respect their opinions.


I also give Manny props for his call (of Manu not making the AS, not of the reasons why he hasn't and will not in the future), although if Manu continues to play as he did since he came back from his injury, he might have a shot.

Alvarez: Allow me to let you in a little secret. The real reason why Manu did not make the ASG last year is . . .




. . . he played nowhere near at an AS level. Nothing to do with his minutes and very little to do with guys like Mike Bibby, JR and Finley.

Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats. He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

So lets see about my reasons that don't make sense again:

Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

So, explain to me why they don't make sense Smeagol?

[ducks]

ducks is waiting to ....................
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[smeagol]

Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats. He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

So lets see about my reasons that don't make sense again:

Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

So, explain to me why they don't make sense Smeagol?

They don't make sense because the year Manu went to the ASG, he was playing 30 mpg (according to you, not enough to be an AS) and because all those same guards, except Paul, were playing for the West.

By the way, I'd take Manu over many of the guards you mention above.

If Manu plays at 75% the level he did in the 2005 playoffs, I guaranty he makes the ASG regardless of how many minutes he plays, regardless of the compe ion.

[smeagol]

ducks is waiting to ....................

So what is your take in all this . . .?

[cheguevara]

WGAF about the gay-ass allstar game. It's all about the rings!!!!!!!!! and Manu knows this.

[smeagol]

I'll break it up a little.

Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats.

How did he do it in 04/05? This year's stats mirror the stats he produced when he went to the ASG.

He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

His "reduced" minutes were enough to earn him a spot in the ASG once, why will they not be enough to earn him a second spot in the future?

Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

Even with Manu playing "not enough" minutes, he is ahead of many of the players you name above, in the AS balloting.

Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Minutes are dropping, his stats are not. Go check them.

Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

He does, and this point is more valid than the first one, even though the tough compe ion did not start last year. It was there the year Manu made the ASG.

As I said in a prior post: Making the AS depends on how Manu is playing, not how many minutes he is playing. And it depends very little on the compe ion.

By the way, Bibby, Davis and Terry are not more worthy of making the ASG than Manu, even with Manu playing at 50-60% of his potential.

[MannyIsGod]

You're insane if you don't think that those players aren't more worth of an All Star birth. They all have better stats than Manu, they are all playing more minutes than Manu, and they're all very important to their teams. On exactly what grounds is Manu more deserving of an All Star team over those other players? Manu isn't playing at 50% of his potential sir, he's playing at all of his potential. It doesn't make sense. Do you think Manu is saving himself? Anyone who has ever seen Manu play a minute knows that he only plays at one speed, and it certainly doesn't leave anything in reserve. So your arguement that he's not playing to all of his potential is ridiculous. Manu is playing as well as he's capable of playing, which unfortunetly is not (and may never well be again) at the same level he played at in 04.

Manu made the ASG in 04 in large part because of his 48 point explosion against the Suns on national TV. He became a media darling. Also, in the eyes of the national media Tony Parker wasn't as big a facor in this team as he is today. After the great year Tony had last year, Manu doesn't get as much credit for this teams success as he did in 04.

I can play your game too Smeagol. If Manu's stats last year were the same as in 04, then why didn't he make the All Star team? 04 was a fluke. It was a once in a career situation. Manu's not making the ASG in front of Parker this year, so the only way he makes it is if the Spurs carry 3 players in that game. While thats not impossible, its sure as not likely considering the level of guards in the West. (As I've been saying for what, 2 years now?)

[MannyIsGod]

I don't see how you can justify putting Manu on the AST this year.

Kobe
Kevin Martin
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Ray Allen
Nash
Chris Paul
Bibby

Who's getting left off? Tony's not even a lock to make the team right now. I know I don't put Manu on the team above any of those players and thats assuming Melo goes in as a forward.

[ShoogarBear]

One minor point: Bibby truly sucks this year.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't see how you can justify putting Manu on the AST this year.

Kobe
Kevin Martin
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Ray Allen
Nash
Chris Paul
Bibby

Who's getting left off? Tony's not even a lock to make the team right now. I know I don't put Manu on the team above any of those players and thats assuming Melo goes in as a forward.

Worse than that, TMac is listed as a guard.

So Kobe and TMac will get voted in by fans as the guards.

Then I think Chris Paul and Steve Nash get in for sure. Then you have a lot of other reasonable options.

Manu (and Tony) have very slim chances.

[xamila rey]

sth out of topic,
kori do u think Nocioni have any chances this year?
maybe if he keeps developing .....next year?

[MannyIsGod]

Nocioni an All-Star? Absolutely not. I love the guy but there is no way you can put him over guys like Paul Pierce and Antawn Jamison who probably wont even make it. Nocioni is a stud and plays well when the Bulls need him most. He was fabulous against the Heat last year in the playoffs. He is definitely All-Star worthy but he will not be selected anytime soon. Look for Tayshaun Prince and Josh Howard to make it before Andres.

Josh Howard plays in the West sir.

[smeagol]

One minor point: Bibby truly sucks this year.

Maybe if you tell it to him he'll listen . . .

When I said he is playing at 50 or 60 per cent of his potential I meant he is not playing as well as he can, not because he is saving heimself, simply because he is not clicking at 100%.

Manu is playing as well as he's capable of playing, which unfortunetly is not (and may never well be again) at the same level he played at in 04.

Look at this year's stats and 04/05's stats. They are almost identical.

If Manu's stats last year were the same as in 04, then why didn't he make the All Star team?

Fortunately, the ASG is not 100% about stats. And as you, and most of the Spurs fans know, Manu's game is not about stats. He has similar stats last year as he did in 04/05 but his game that season has completely different than what it was in 05/06.

If he keeps playing the way he has after his injury, I believe he has a shot (a slim one, but a shot nonetheless).

[smeagol]

Worse than that, TMac is listed as a guard.

TMac is already injured. Who knows if he will be able to make it . . .

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe if you tell it to him he'll listen . . .

When I said he is playing at 50 or 60 per cent of his potential I meant he is not playing as well as he can, not because he is saving heimself, simply because he is not clicking at 100%.



Look at this year's stats and 04/05's stats. They are almost identical.



Fortunately, the ASG is not 100% about stats. And as you, and most of the Spurs fans know, Manu's game is not about stats. He has similar stats last year as he did in 04/05 but his game that season has completely different than what it was in 05/06.

If he keeps playing the way he has after his injury, I believe he has a shot (a slim one, but a shot nonetheless).

Ok, so since you avoided the 2 main questions I posed to you, I'll ask them again.

Why didn't Manu make the ASG last year?

Who are you going to leave off of that list in order to give Manu a spot?

[MannyIsGod]

Really? Obviously I knew that Manny. I am just saying don't look for a guy like Andres to make it before a guy like Josh Howard does.

Ok? Considering that both could make it at the same time I don't understand what relevence Josh Howard has to Andres.

[smeagol]

Why didn't Manu make the ASG last year?

I already answered this questions: Because he was not playing as well as he did the previous season.

Who are you going to leave off of that list in order to give Manu a spot?

None becuse he is not playing at the level he should to deserve an AS slot.

Nevertheless, he is certainly capable of playing better and leaving out Bibby and Davis.

[ShoogarBear]

What's funny is the Spurs have a good shot at still having the best record at the ASB and maybe having no starters. Tim winning the vote is always iffy and usually not decided until the end. TP and Manu won't have the stats compared to other players, and if one gets in (Parker much more likely) it will be because of the Spurs' record and not because of superior numbers.

Not that that's a bad thing. The Spurs strength (having three guys as opposed to two, and a relatively deep bench) works against them for All-Star selection purposes

I just don't see Manu under any cir stances, no matter how well he plays, generating the numbers to be in the top 4-5 of Manny's list.

[Kori Ellis]

..

Nevertheless, he is certainly capable of playing better and leaving out Bibby and Davis.

And Tony?

[smeagol]

And Tony?

Very unlikely . . . but not impossible.