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I know there is a big argument to say he was on a worse team, but 27.7% 3-pt
Why did you leave out PPG and AST? Always sugarcoating ...
I know there is a big argument to say he was on a worse team, but 27.7% 3-pt
Someone explain how you're still here
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127858
Bump=leonard?
try again
I find it funny that people are saying Ariza>> Artest.
Maybe I'm taking it out of context and they mean he's a "Better Fit", But a better player? No Way.
Ariza's #'s in the post-season look good because the matchups favored his style of play.
He can't play against a physical 3, He struggled against Carmelo and Kobe was needed to help him. It Would've probably gotten worse against Pierce or LeBron
So from that standpoint, we have upgraded quite a bit..Artest can check all 3 of those guys one on one and if need be play some 4. We're more flexible then ever..
As far as regarding the bench, the likes of Farmar, Sasha - all had down years... I doubt that will happen this season.
With LA getting Ron and Spurs getting RJ, the Lakers are now "tougher"
As much as I hate to say it, the Lakers will most probably be even better with Artest. No way you can equate Ariza with Artest. They're just on different levels.
And Bynum will be getting better. He's still young and relatively inexperienced, so you have to bet on him improving.
Kobe, Gasol, and Odom will be just as good. The role players will be just as good.
The only two things that MIGHT make them weaker would be the lack of hunger and possible chemistry issues with Artest. But don't count on it.
That being said, I still like the Spurs' chances.
Jesus Christ, who is that hottie in your signature?
What up Freshh
I rewatched the Rockets series, and some people are just ingoring the game tape. For games 1-3 when a healthy yao was abusing bynum and gasol on the low block, the lakers were forced to overload their coverage and collapse on Yao virtually every possession. This would allow the Rockets to swing the ball to the other side of the floor, and let Ron or Scola go 1 on 1 for a score or to make another play. In these first three games, Ron was taking much higher quality shots within the context of the offense, and Ariza simply could not cover him 1 on 1. When Yao went down, Artest had no choice but to be the hero, and he failed miserably, but to his credit he had the nuts to take those shots anyways.
One thing Artest does for Kobe is make it harder for teams to switch their SF onto Kobe.
In 2008, the lineup LA had on the floor in crunch time was Fisher, Kobe, Vujacic, Odom, Gasol. Boston could switch Pierce onto Kobe without having to think twice about it, but now Allen could have real problems guarding Artest who probably has 40-50 pounds on Ray Ray.
I think there are legitimate questions and criticisms that can be made about Artest joining the Lakers. Individually, Artest is a better player than Ariza (even though some might try to argue otherwise). He is. Artest is a better individual player. However, one can argue that he might not fit with the Lakers as well as Ariza did last year. That's a legitimate criticism that has to be proven next year. Until they actually get on the court, it's not a ridiculous notion to question that Artest might not fit as well with the Lakers as Ariza did. Artest likes the basketball in his hands on offense a lot as well. He also likes to iso against defensive mismatches. He's not exactly the best spot-up jump shooter. He hasn't really played in a structured offense like the triangle before (although the Lakers do break off from the triangle much more than in previous seasons). Those are legitimate claims why Artest might not be the best addition to the Lakers. And, that doesn't even go into other potential issues he might cause with his personality.
Talent wise, the Lakers should be as good as last year, maybe even slightly better. But you cannot ignore chemistry on and off the court. Trevor Ariza fit well for the Lakers in both regards. Artest might, might not.
The Lakers are and should be the favorites still in the West. But it's fair to question if they're necessarily a better team than last year.
A lot of good points made here for both Ariza and Artest, however I will say that while Artest will be better defensively in half-court set, Ariza gave the Lakers some speed and length, the same qualities that allowed Lakers to seal the deal on some end of game steals in the playoffs. Next year, if I'm a coach I'm going to run against the Lakers. I don't think the core group can keep up. When the subs from the weak bench come in, slow the game a little and force them to make mistakes.
Last edited by all_heart; 08-01-2009 at 01:33 PM.
WRONG. Artest has triangle experience already.
Artest has never conformed to fit in anywhere he's been, and I don't expect him to do so now. This is the man that admittedly threw his mood pills away after all. All I'm saying is approach with caution.
Why is everyone saying Artest can handle Paul Pierce better? Did anyone actually catch the games where they matched up in the last few years? Pierce does well on Artest, similar to most other wings with skills and that aren't easily intimidated.
The Lakers are the favorites until someone knocks them off. I'm anxious for next season and hope all of the contenders are at full strength come playoff time. LA caught a lot of breaks on that area this year and I want to see how they do against a team with as much talent, like Boston. Their only challenge last year was whether they chose to bring it every night because they clearly had "more" than every team they played. That shouldn't be the case next year. Teams outside of Boston at least appear to have as much on paper.
I see LA last year as the bully that beat up on small kids. I want to see how they do against guys that will hit back.
Uhh, how much experience?
Not with the Bulls. Tim Floyd didn't run a triangle with the Bulls. Isiah and Rick Carlisle didn't run a triangle. Adelman doesn't run a triangle. Am I missing where he has triangle experience? Where? St. John's?
Being familiar with the triangle and actually having real experience playing it successfully aren't the same thing.
You have GOT to learn when to use capital letters and when not to...
Artest will be defending the opposing teams best player...Kobe can save his energy.
Good game.
Not necessarily, but perhaps a young(er) lineup of TP, GH, Blair, IM, Haislip. sometimes TP is a one man fast break.. YOU know this
Yep, Media carries the water for the likes of Houston, San Antonio, et al, but, when it comes to the Lakers, it's tattletale time. They're like compelled.
Lmao @ this thread.
The question you should be asking yourself is how can they not be better?
All core players in their primes.
Bynum will come back fully healthy and will gain another year of experience.
Shannon Brown will get another year of experience and hopefully more minutes.
Down years for Sasha and Farmar last season, they have a good shot at improving.
Added Ron Artest to the team, going to add another dimension defensively.
It seems most are banking on the possibility of Ron Artest exploding and wrecking the team from the inside out. If you want to believe that then go ahead, I just don't see it as a very likely possibility. Ron's role will be very specialized, he will not be asked to do the things he had to do in Houston. This is a man who is very motivated to win a championship and he's going to be surrounded by people he admires and respects (Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Lamar Odom).
IMHO this is the start of the next great Laker dynasty. They will win 3 more championships before all is said and done. Nobody is going to stop this team.
Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom
i disagree that artest adds another defensive dimension to your team. artest is still a top notch defensive player but the guy simply has lost a step on the perimeter due to his bum ankle with the 2 partially torn ligaments. also let's not forget that ron ron was very motivated last year to garner himself a big contract and to show he could be under control yet he still pulled his regular bull under a coach that he gets along with and likes. adelman and the rox did a great job of keeping ron's craziness under wraps but the bottom line is i think there is a lot more than just the running out to the bus in his underwear story. clutch from clutchfans has said that there is much more that he heard about from mgmt but would not make public. also let's not forget ron still barely shot 40% from the field in a contract year where he attempted 2 less fgs a game than his previous year.
i think ariza to ron is a lateral move for your team and i think ariza is a more efficient role player on offense for you guys. i love artest's intensity but intensity can't keep you healthy. i know you lakers fans are gonna love this stat but who do you think has played in a great percentage of games in the past 7 seasons....yao ming or ron artest? i am taking out ron's suspended year and yao has played in 83.8% of regular season games while ron ron has played in 78.2% of them.i'm jus sayin
on offense ron certainly has the potential to be a much more versatile player than ariza but the guy is a complete black hole. sure he is a better passer than ariza but he has to have the ball in his hands for 20 seconds before he makes the pass. artest is certainly a much much better post player than ariza but the guy simply refuses to make that the bread and butter of his offensive game. if he only took maybe 2 3's a game and instead shot everything within 15 feet the guy would be an excellent offensive option but he just doesn't do it. if phil can somehow convince artest to do that this year then you guys got a steal and are a sure fire championship winner but i just can't see it happening.
anyhow i'm ready to see how this artest/ariza swap works out!
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