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Boston is KG's team simply 'cause he is the best player of that team. Go ask Doc Rivers who would he rather have of the two: KG or Pierce? I'm pretty sure he would say KG.
yes, yes and YES, it would be idiotic top think otherwise
nah, he does'nt anymore. so this is a good excuse if the lakers dont repeat
Team B doesn't have a guy (with the exception maybe of Gasol, but I don't trust him too much on that role) that can take over a game. Team A has two. Besides Artest would feel "the man" on that team and would up from 10 to 20 offensive plays per game.
Boston is KG's team simply 'cause he is the best player of that team. Go ask Doc Rivers who would he rather have of the two: KG or Pierce? I'm pretty sure he would say KG.
lol With the exception of Gasol nobody is even close to the top 5 on their positions. And even Gasol isn't a sure thing, out of the top of my head: Tim, KG, Dirk, Bosh, Al Jefferson.
OK who do you think wins in a series.
Orlando w/o Dwight, they still have those 3 All-Stars and better role players than LA
Lakers have Pau, the only All-Star, and good players in Odom, Bynum and Artest, followed by trash like sasha/morrison
Who wins?
Walton and Farmar are trash as well, And Artest isn't All-Star Calliber anymore IMO
I think that the Spurstalk math is off. Right now, each option has 24 votes... and 51.06%. WTF?
Team A doesn't have a low post scoring threat that commands a double team, making it easier to double perimeter guys or collapse in the paint to prevent slashing. Look at Kobe's teams without a quality big man. Look at Dwyane Wade with an even declining Shaq and without him. And neither Tony Parker or Manu are Kobe or Wade. Team B would control the boards and win something like 7 out of 10 times because of the front court advantage.
Pau is most definitely a top 5 centre in the league, probably top 3. Players better are Yao and Howard.
Bynum isn't even top 10 right now, forget about top 5.
PFs better - Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Aldridge, Boozer, Bosh, Brand, Griffin, Millsap, Scola, Josh Smith, David West, and Odom
C's better - Yao, D12, Gasol, Bogut, Camby, Al Horford, Ilgauskas, Jefferson, Kaman, Shaq, Okur.
Odom is definitely not top 5.
PF - same as above w/o Odom, Millsap, Josh Smith, David West.
SF's better - Butler, Durant, Gay, Granger, Jeff Green, Josh Howard, SJax, Lebron, Maggette, Marion, Pierce, Prince, Hedo, Rashard Lewis.
Artest is not top 5.
SF - same as above + Odom
SG - Kobe, Carter, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Iguodala, AI if he ever gets a job, Mayo, Redd, Roy, Wade and James White!
Fisher top 15?
Bibby, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Williams, CP3, Billups, Calderon, Chalmers, Baron Davis, Felton, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Rose, Jameer Nelson, Ridnour, Rondo, Sessions.
However, as a group, they form a very well balanced supporting cast.
I think Team B wins, because Team A lacks post scoring, Team B has plenty of it
Which player Doc would rather have doesn't determine whose team it is. Doc might rather have KG, but if you also ask whose team it is, I'd bet he'd say Pierce before Kevin. Amare is a better player than Nash but it's Nash's team. On Those old Nets teams, Vince was the best player but it was Jason Kidd'e team. The best player isn't always the leader of the team.
KG might be the best player on the Celtics but it's Paul Pierce's team.
The point is that once Gasol came to LA, he became much more effecient. To deny that Kobe, and all the attention he gets from the defense, had no part in that is extremely idiotic.put Kobe on the Grizzlies and you don't think his FG% would decrease. please
And again way to ignore how much Kobe helped Ariza
Why is there the notion that it has to be either Gasol helping Kobe's game or vice versa?
It's pretty apparent to me that each helped the other. How you want to quantify it in terms of who helped the other more is pretty difficult. But, it's pretty obvious that Kobe is a better player because of Gasol and Gasol is a better player because of Kobe.
Pau is a PF. But still Top 3.
He's not a PF at all, eliminate that.Bynum isn't even top 10 right now, forget about top 5.
PFs better - Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Aldridge, Boozer, Bosh, Brand, Griffin, Millsap, Scola, Josh Smith, David West, and Odom
C's better - Yao, D12, Gasol, Bogut, Camby, Al Horford, Ilgauskas, Jefferson, Kaman, Shaq, Okur.
And no one would take Bogut, Camby, Horford, Ilgauskas, or Okur over Bynum. And Jefferson is a PF.
Top 5 bench player - that's the role he's at now.Odom is definitely not top 5.
PF - same as above w/o Odom, Millsap, Josh Smith, David West.
SF's better - Butler, Durant, Gay, Granger, Jeff Green, Josh Howard, SJax, Lebron, Maggette, Marion, Pierce, Prince, Hedo, Rashard Lewis.
Artest isn't a SG. Eliminate that now. And he's better than Gay, Green, Howard, Sjax, Maggette, Marion, and Prince easily. I'll give you Josh, LeBron, Butler, Durant. Argubaly over Hedo and Lewis because they don't play D.Artest is not top 5.
SF - same as above + Odom
SG - Kobe, Carter, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Iguodala, AI if he ever gets a job, Mayo, Redd, Roy, Wade and James White!
Ridnour? Chalmers? C'mon now.Fisher top 15?
Bibby, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Williams, CP3, Billups, Calderon, Chalmers, Baron Davis, Felton, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Rose, Jameer Nelson, Ridnour, Rondo, Sessions.
Al Jefferson played mostly center for the Timberwolves last year.
And, when T-Mac went down last year, Artest played mostly 2-guard with Battier at the 3. And, if you take Kobe out of the equation for that hypothetical, Artest would be the 2-guard and Odom the 3.
I was never saying it had to be one of the other, i was just pointing out that Kobe did help Gasol's game. I never denied that Pau also helped Kobe's
Duncan played mostly at C his entire career but he's a PF.
No matter where they play at, I'm going on how players are classified.
Al Jefferson is "classified" as a center on espn and center-forward on nba.com. If you want to go on how players are classified, Al Jefferson is a center first, PF second. Even the Minnesota Timberwolves website through nba.com list them as a "C-F" on the roster page. He's a center.
Al Jefferson ESPN profile
Al Jefferson nba.com profile
Timberwolves roster
Splittin hairs. So Yao, Shaq, Jefferson, and maybe Kaman over Bynum.
That ain't shabby.
The question was who has the best supporting cast around them and Kobe arguably has a top 5 player at almost every position around him (C, PF, SF, 6th man) except PG. Gotta give props to Mitch for building it and Dr Buss for paying for it.
Lol, you were the one who wanted to "split hairs" in the first place, until you realized your assumption on what position Al Jefferson was "classified" was wrong. Plus, how do you think Bynum is better than Dwight Howard? Really now.
Bynum arguably has top 5 talent at the center position. He has a long way to go to actually proving he's a top 5 center in the league. He has to do more than he can have a few very good games for short stretches early in the regular season to prove it. It's like saying Greg Oden is a top 5 center. Prove it first. Don't just base it on talent and potential. Plus, when it mattered most, in the playoffs, Bynum's contributions were no where near what a top 5 center would give to the Lakers. Once he actually brings the production consistently for an entire season and do it in the playoffs, then you could call him a top 5 center. Until then, he's not.
Kobe doesn't even possess the best supporting cast in L.A.
98 - 03, Robinson was the Spurs centre.
04 - 05, Nazr and Nesterovic were the Spurs centres.
06 - 09, Duncan, along with Oberto and Kurt Thomas were the Spurs centres.
Duncan has been playing mostly PF in his career.
So with this ridiculously strong supporting cast, Kobe managed to barely squeak by Houston and Denver in the playoffs? I never realized how weak Kobe is himself.
Sure, I agree.
As a player right now? Those are all better players than Bynum are. For the future based on potential, I would take Bynum though. But the discussion is around being a top 5 player at his position.
6th man is not a position. The topic was around position, not roles.
Gay, Green, Howard, SJax, and Maggette are better than Artest at this point in their careers, not to mention the extra baggage that Artest has. Marion is arguable, Prince > Artest.
Artest isn't even CLOSE to Hedo and Lewis. And Artest is no longer the 04 version on D. He has clearly lost a step.
Over Fisher? Yeah, why not? You do realize that calling Fisher average is a compliment to him now, right? He may have championship experience, and he still nail down clutch shots, but as a player, Ridnour and Chalmers are both better than Fisher, and by quite some margin.
No.
Yes, Kobe has the best supporting cast in the NBA.
You can't just judge a supporting cast by how many All Stars a team has. You also have to look at depth, balance, and fit.
The Lakers are essentially a 10 deep team. Heck, then even have three solid point guards, who each played an important role at one point or another in the playoffs.
They have a solid center. Most teams don't even have that. And in the case where Bynum gets into foul trouble, they can shift Gasol over to center, and bring in Odom.
At any point in the game, the Lakers can field an entire 5 on the court and say that they aren't really losing much no matter who they have on the court.
You can't say that they lack 3 point shooters, when they have Farmar and Sasha coming off the bench. You can't say that they don't have good defensive guards, when they have Fisher, Brown, and Kobe.
They have even upgraded at the small forward position by bringing in Artest. Even though I will miss Ariza who was excellent on defense with his long arms and steals (and clutch 3 point shooting), Artest can battle better against the stronger small forwards in the west (Carmelo Anthony anyone?)
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