NBA Locks Out Refs

[cobbler]

Yeps. Do people remember what happened the other time they brought the replacement refs? It was horrific.

NBA refs are the best basketball referees in the world by far and away. Fans just have unreasonable expectations. Basketball is just a tough game to officiate; controversial calls and mistakes will always be part of it.

Ahh the voice of reason....

[cobbler]

Tee hee? Shame on you Mr C.

Anyway, I would venture to say that if you were to poll 1,000 NBA fans who proclaim that they aren't fans anymore the #1 reason would be preferencial officiating and not allowing the players to dictate the pace, and possibly the outcome of many games.

This is what i hear time and time again from fans my age.....Middle-aged men who'd rather watch pro football .

Maybe if that poll was taken in Phoenix. You can blame the refs and Stern all you want. You can call conspiricy all you want. You can blame big market vs small market all you want. All it is is sour grapes and we all know the Suns fans are the biggest whiners in the league.

The majority of the people I talk to that no longer watch the NBA site the players and their smug at udes as the reason. The looking in the news only to find who got arrested for brandishing a weapon at the strip bar of the week( see Delonte). The hearing comments like not being able to feed their children if they dont get the mega million extension.

...and football has just as many if not more blown calls. They also cater to the stars just as ALL sports leagues do.

[exstatic]

Or, you need to follow the rules and keep your ass on the bench. San Antonio too, though they didn't get cuffed for it.

tee, hee.

You need to understand the rule. It's not that you can't ever step onto the court from the bench. You just can't do it during an altercation.

Suns player throws Elson to the ground. Duncan steps one foot onto the court. Elson gets up and runs back to the other end. No altercation. If Elson even squares up on him, after all of the flapdoodle in that game, Duncan gets suspended for game 5, too. Thank God for mature players.

[exstatic]

Sure it's no coincidence. Duncan's usage rate declined by 1.3%. His offensive rebounding rate declined by 1.4%. And he took more 80 jump-shots in 07/08 than in the previous season. So, he had the ball less, he was playing and taking shots further away from the basket and crashing the glass less. He got about 1 less free-throw attempt every 36 minutes. It seems pretty natural to me. His decline on FG% was steeper.

D-League refs are for NBA refs like D-League players are for NBA players.

Did it ever occur to you that his lack of FTs led to an adaptation to more jumpers, and that when you don't get FTs on a miss, it lowers your FG% because it counts against it, where a miss with a foul call doesn't? You're basically making my argument for me. A few stats are off 1-2%, and you're blowing off a 1.2 FTA per game drop, which is 20 ing percent?

[cobbler]

Did it ever occur to you that his lack of FTs led to an adaptation to more jumpers, and that when you don't get FTs on a miss, it lowers your FG% because it counts against it, where a miss with a foul call doesn't? You're basically making my argument for me. A few stats are off 1-2%, and you're blowing off a 1.2 FTA per game drop, which is 20 ing percent?

So you are saying Duncan see's opportunities to drive to the basket and consciously chooses not to and take the jumper because he wont get the call? Really?

[Trainwreck2100]

So you are saying Duncan see's opportunities to drive to the basket and consciously chooses not to and take the jumper because he wont get the call? Really?

Yes because 7 foot power forwards are known for their awesome ability to drive to the basket.

[cobbler]

Yes because 7 foot power forwards are known for their awesome ability to drive to the basket.

ohhh... but he had the moves and used them the previous season. He's just now decides not to use them cause he doesn't get the calls. Hillarious!

[mojorizen7]

Maybe if that poll was taken in Phoenix. You can blame the refs and Stern all you want. You can call conspiricy all you want. You can blame big market vs small market all you want. All it is is sour grapes and we all know the Suns fans are the biggest whiners in the league.

The majority of the people I talk to that no longer watch the NBA site the players and their smug at udes as the reason. The looking in the news only to find who got arrested for brandishing a weapon at the strip bar of the week. The hearing comments about not being able to feed their children if they dont get the mega million extension.

...and football has just as many if not more blown calls. They also cater to the stars just as ALL sports leagues do.

Let go of my nutsack. I know you Cobbler and you know me.
You wouldn't know objectivity if it crawled up your ass and died.

As for the topic under conversation here....the players at udes would be the other reason no doubt.

Fact is,NBA officiating is awful,no matter what colors you wear.

Just one example is when a star player drives the lane and there is minimal contact made,yet the refs wait to see if the shot attempt goes in to make the call......if the shot is missed they call a foul.
Its either a foul or it isn't.

[TDMVPDPOY]

do refs not know, mo money mo problemz?

[cobbler]

Let go of my nutsack. I know you Cobbler and you know me.
You wouldn't know objectivity if it crawled up your ass and died.

As for the topic under conversation here....the players at udes would be the other reason no doubt.

Fact is,NBA officiating is awful,no matter what colors you wear.

Just one example is when a star player drives the lane and there is minimal contact made,yet the refs wait to see if the shot attempt goes in to make the call......if the shot is missed they call a foul.
Its either a foul or it isn't.

Are you denying that Suns fans are well known for their crying, ref bashing, and stern conspiricy rants? I'll give you credit though... you may very well be the first one to actually claim a nutsack!

Fact is, officiating in all sports is tough. I actually think the NBA refs have the toughest job of all. And if you think calling a game is as black and white as making the call as the rules state then you have obviously never played. They could literally call a foul on every shot. Same goes with football. They could call holding every single play. Do they? No.

If they called every foul in a basketball game with no discretion, there would be no players left after halftime. That is why they wait to see if the ball went in. That is why you will see a ticky tack baseline foul called out of bounds. That is why you will see a bump of the dribbler not called on one play and the very same bump called when it caused the ball to be turned over.

If you called basketball games by the letter. Its a foul or not... black and white only, the rules would need modifying to allow 12 fouls and the games will last 5 hours.

[mojorizen7]

Are you denying that Suns fans are well known for their crying, ref bashing, and stern conspiricy rants? I'll give you credit though... you may very well be the first one to actually claim a nutsack!

I'm not denying anything,take that up with the SUNS fans enmasse,if you can manage to let go of your trollish nature and not get banned

.

Fact is, officiating in all sports is tough. I actually think the NBA refs have the toughest job of all.

So do i. Thats what i said in the earlier post. Doesn't mean the refs should make it easier for themselves to call the game by using agendas and preferencial treatment towards the "stars of the game".

And if you think calling a game is as black and white as making the call as the rules state then you have obviously never played. They could literally call a foul on every shot.

They could just as easily not call a foul on every shot. Get rid of the ticky tack mentality and you immediately can begin to call games more consistently.

Same goes with football. They could call holding every single play. Do they? No.

If they called every foul in a basketball game with no discretion, there would be no players left after halftime. That is why they wait to see if the ball went in. That is why you will see a ticky tack baseline foul called out of bounds. That is why you will see a bump of the dribbler not called on one play and the very same bump called when it caused the ball to be turned over.

You missed my point here. To award a star player two free throws because he got marginally bumped & he missed a layup as oppsosed to not blowing the whistle as long as his shot goes in is garbage officiating.

If you called basketball games by the letter. Its a foul or not... black and white only, the rules would need modifying to allow 12 fouls and the games will last 5 hours.

Again,if you're gonna call the games so tight as to dictate the pace etc...then of course you can't call everything by the book.....which is why the refs need to take a step back and allow the players to play the game and step in make the calls only when it's an obvious infraction....regardless of the player and/or team involved.

[cobbler]

I'm not denying anything,take that up with the SUNS fans enmasse,if you can manage to let go of your trollish nature and not get banned

So you agree that Suns fans are known for their crying and excuses. Good for you.

And if you are talking about being banned from ASFN... come on. I have been banned there 2 times. Once for calling Suns fans whiney conspiricy spewers and just the other day for saying... " Nash will make it to the HOF based on his skills and accomplishments... however, he will be in the no ring wing with AI, Malone, Barkley, and Baylor". Instantly the Suns posters got thier panties in a wad, out came the obligatory "troll" comments and then a deletion and ban. Talk about inferiority complexes!

So do i. Thats what i said in the earlier post. Doesn't mean the refs should make it easier for themselves to call the game by using agendas and preferencial treatment towards the "stars of the game".

So what specific agendas are you speaking of? Stars have always and will always get preferential treatment in all sports, not just basketball.

So besides the "star" treatment that goes on in every sport... give me specifics on these so called agendas you are speaking of. *queue the Stearn rant*

They could just as easily not call a foul on every shot. Get rid of the ticky tack mentality and you immediately can begin to call games more consistently.

I agree but where do you draw the line? Ticky tack fouls that disrupt a shot get called or no ticky tack at all? Claiming its the refs and the league agenda to promote certain teams is bull. The ticky tack calls you are seeing today are a result of the rule changes over the years to promote offense and the ridiculous flagrant calls. And to take it a step further, you can put equal fault on the players themselves. All the flopping and out of control high flying that result in awkward falls exacerbate the difficulty in officiatingthe NBA.

Again,if you're gonna call the games so tight as to dictate the pace etc...then of course you can't call everything by the book.....which is why the refs need to take a step back and allow the players to play the game and step in make the calls only when it's an obvious infraction....regardless of the player and/or team involved.

It's a fine line. Every official has their quirks. Some call ticky tacky, others do not. Some you get a lot of slack when disputing a call and others will T you up in a heartbeat. It is up to the players to determine how the game is being called that particular evening and adjust to it. Just like baseball players adjust to a strikezone that changes nightly. I suppose if you do not have that capability then you stand around afterward and cry conspiricy or preferential treatment.

Don't get me wrong, there are obvious mistakes made daily and no doubt as a player and/or organization you are going to get stung and complain about it. When the complaints become common place year in and year out you just become a whiner. Winners make the adjustments.

[Dunc n Dave]

Are you denying that Suns fans are well known for their crying, ref bashing, and stern conspiricy rants? I'll give you credit though... you may very well be the first one to actually claim a nutsack!

Fact is, officiating in all sports is tough. I actually think the NBA refs have the toughest job of all. And if you think calling a game is as black and white as making the call as the rules state then you have obviously never played. They could literally call a foul on every shot. Same goes with football. They could call holding every single play. Do they? No.

If they called every foul in a basketball game with no discretion, there would be no players left after halftime. That is why they wait to see if the ball went in. That is why you will see a ticky tack baseline foul called out of bounds. That is why you will see a bump of the dribbler not called on one play and the very same bump called when it caused the ball to be turned over.

If you called basketball games by the letter. Its a foul or not... black and white only, the rules would need modifying to allow 12 fouls and the games will last 5 hours.

I call BS...

What do players do when the refs start calling a lot of the contact early in a game? They ADJUST!

If most fouls were called fouls, the players would adjust. There would be some early season foul outs for the hard headed ones that can't figure out how to adjust, but eventually they would realize "if I get too physical, I'm gonna get a foul, so I better calm the f--- down."

Ironically, I preferred 90's basketball where defense was physical, but it's obvious to me that the NBA wants more scoring now, so why not call every foul, then they'll get their wish: games consistently in the 100's.

THe biggest pet peeve I have has bee mentioned already: the no-call foul on a drive, and then the whistle 2 seconds later after the ref sees the no-call foul caused the player to miss the shot.

Aggravating as when that happens and only reinforces people's disdain for NBA refs.

[cobbler]

I call BS...

What do players do when the refs start calling a lot of the contact early in a game? They ADJUST!

If most fouls were called fouls, the players would adjust. There would be some early season foul outs for the hard headed ones that can't figure out how to adjust, but eventually they would realize "if I get too physical, I'm gonna get a foul, so I better calm the f--- down."

Ironically, I preferred 90's basketball where defense was physical, but it's obvious to me that the NBA wants more scoring now, so why not call every foul, then they'll get their wish: games consistently in the 100's.

THe biggest pet peeve I have has bee mentioned already: the no-call foul on a drive, and then the whistle 2 seconds later after the ref sees the no-call foul caused the player to miss the shot.

Aggravating as when that happens and only reinforces people's disdain for NBA refs.

If you had read my latter post you would see that I also said players need to adjust to the calls being made as every ref has their own way of officiating. The winners learn how to adjust and the losers whine a lot about bad officiating and conspiricies.

My reference to the needing more fouls and 5 hours to play a game were for the poster that said every foul should be called regaredless of person or team involved.

As for the no call pet peeve you both have...I just don't get it. The ref see's a player go up for the shot on the drive. A shot they make with a high percentage. The ref assumes he's going to make it and gives the defender the break (non call) only to find out the ticky tack foul acutually DID cause the player to miss... you call the foul. If it goes in the defensive player gets the break cause it was truly a light foul... if it doesnt go in it gets called because it affected the play.

Players and teams who blame the refs constantly are losers. As you said, you adjust to the way the game is being called. If they cannot figure that out then thy need a new profession. Certainly, bad breaks are going to happen and you will get burned from time to time. Winners move on and adjust, losers whine and complain.

[Dunc n Dave]

If you had read my latter post you would see that I also said players need to adjust to the calls being made as every ref has their own way of officiating. The winners learn how to adjust and the losers whine a lot about bad officiating and conspiricies.

My reference to the needing more fouls and 5 hours to play a game were for the poster that said every foul should be called regaredless of person or team involved.

As for the no call pet peeve you both have...I just don't get it. The ref see's a player go up for the shot on the drive. A shot they make with a high percentage. The ref assumes he's going to make it and gives the defender the break (non call) only to find out the ticky tack foul acutually DID cause the player to miss... you call the foul. If it goes in the defensive player gets the break cause it was truly a light foul... if it doesnt go in it gets called because it affected the play.

Players and teams who blame the refs constantly are losers. As you said, you adjust to the way the game is being called. If they cannot figure that out then thy need a new profession. Certainly, bad breaks are going to happen and you will get burned from time to time. Winners move on and adjust, losers whine and complain.

Well said. I just don't like people saying every player would foul out by halftime, as if NBA players are too stupid to know to back off when the fouls are called tight in a game.

As for the pet peeve, a foul on a shot (especially a drive to the basket), should be called a foul everytime. No matter how light is was. It still affects the shot. Don't wait to see if it goes in then call a foul, that reinforces the casual fans argument of star treatment and games being rigged. The non-shooting fouls I could care less if they let those go...

[Culburn369]

You need to understand the rule. It's not that you can't ever step onto the court from the bench. You just can't do it during an altercation.

Suns player throws Elson to the ground. Duncan steps one foot onto the court. Elson gets up and runs back to the other end. No altercation. If Elson even squares up on him, after all of the flapdoodle in that game, Duncan gets suspended for game 5, too. Thank God for mature players.

Sure.

tee, hee.

[mojorizen7]

Ironically, I preferred 90's basketball where defense was physical, but it's obvious to me that the NBA wants more scoring now, so why not call every foul, then they'll get their wish: games consistently in the 100's.
.

Unfortunately the SUNS has always tried to cir vent that physicality by going fast and/or small and giving the league what they wanted.
Even Barkley's '93 Finals team was a little soft IMO.

[spursncowboys]

do refs not know, mo money mo problemz?

Is this the video of how H1N1 was spread?