Just in case some of us have forgotten.

[marini martini]

I heard Iran is offering the cheapest sex change operations!!!!

[phyzik]

My brother comes home in February. He did 2 tours in Iraq. Im glad I told him what I did and still feel the same way.... the Geneva Conventions, if you feel a threat, ing shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more and ask questions after all the threats are dead.

he has survived countless IED's and ambushes. I already know he needs therapy.

for those that know military, he is 88-mike. transportation. He hits IED's on a daily basis. I attribute it to luck. this er would be walking with me and a friend and would find money along the side of a ditch. Im not talking a few dollars.... he would find $50 to $100 almost everytime!

I cant wait for him to come home. Me, him and another adopted brother are all that is left of our direct family. Our father passed away January 6th of 2000, our mother passed away November 16th 2006.

Im the one taking care of the family house.

[duncan228]

Your brother will stay in my thoughts phyzik. Hope he stays safe.

[xellos88330]

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.

Well, the United States hasn't been attacked since. So I suppose that it is working.

On another note, why a condor. It's a scavenger. It will just float above the trees waiting for you to die, then flutter down all happy like and commence to feast. What a goofy analogy

[CuckingFunt]

Well, the United States hasn't been attacked since. So I suppose that it is working.

Then so are my trees. Cool.

On another note, why a condor. It's a scavenger. It will just float above the trees waiting for you to die, then flutter down all happy like and commence to feast. What a goofy analogy

The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

[xellos88330]

Then so are my trees. Cool.



The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

I got your point from the very beginning. You have basically been saying that everything being done overseas isn't doing anything here, and it creates an illusion of safety.

Well there is one solid point I can make against this argument.

1 dead terrorist = 1 less threat to US security.

I think that is protection.

[DMX7]

I got your point from the very beginning. You have basically been saying that everything being done overseas isn't doing anything here, and it creates an illusion of safety.

Well there is one solid point I can make against this argument.

1 dead terrorist = 1 less threat to US security.

I think that is protection.

Only if that "terrorist" actually had the capacity to harm us which few do. Not to mention many of the people attacking us over there are doing so simply because we're occupying their land, not because they hate America.
We're probably at greater risk from collapsing in war debt than we are from plenty more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.

[xellos88330]

Only if that "terrorist" actually had the capacity to harm us which few do. Not to mention many of the people attacking us over there are doing so simply because we're occupying their land, not because they hate America.
We're probably at greater risk from collapsing in war debt than we are from plenty more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.

War is definitely expensive. Can't say anything about that. The terrorists seem to be using political warfare being used kinda like in Vietnam. The evil man in me just wants to turn all those nations into a big shiny sheet of glass and be done with it. On the other hand, I don't think the innocent people should pay for the stupidity of the few.

All terrorists have the capacity of pushing a button, or pulling a trigger. That is all that is necessary to commit acts of terror. I mean they have suicide bombers who kill themselves for 72 virgins or whatever. That is all they need.

[DMX7]

All terrorists have the capacity of pushing a button, or pulling a trigger. That is all that is necessary to commit acts of terror. I mean they have suicide bombers who kill themselves for 72 virgins or whatever. That is all they need.

Yeah, but they need a plan to actually get here and finance their operation. It took a lot of planning and money for the 9/11 highjackers to do what they did. I doubt many of them could pull it off again especially with the increased security here at home (which still isn't perfect). Let's not forget that these are still people living in a third world country and they're trying to break through the security of the world's only superpower. They did it once but that looks more and more like a fluke everyday. They're really not the most concerning thing to me. I'm more afraid of teen drivers on their cell phone than I am of terrorists.

[LnGrrrR]

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there.

By specifically listing only women and children, you invited that implication. From your post, one could assume that no actual terrorists were being killed.

There are a lot of ways that women, children, and generally innocent civilians can be killed during a war -- bombs being dropped where they shouldn't be, suicide bombers reacting to our continued unwanted presence, unavoidable casualties of a war that shouldn't be happening, psycho soldiers who think Iraq is a video game, and countless others. It's a pretty big assumption, and an unfair one, to claim that I'm talking specifically about one of those things.

I agree, which is why I am against war in many cases. However, again though, to list only the deaths of women and children, and leave out the 'bad guys' we have killed, seems one-sided.

Well, yeah. And my next door neighbor COULD scrape my car tomorrow morning backing out of the parking lot, but I'm not going to go knock on his door and preemptively punch him in the face.

A poor analogy. I didn't say anything about preemptive war, did I? If the United States had no military, or a weak one, do you or do you not think that the chances of us being attacked would be greater?

The proper analogy would be, if there were no cops, would you think there's a greater or worse chance that your car could be vandalized?

You and I typically agree on political issues, and I don't think we're terribly far off on this one so I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing it, but I still think there is an emotional response to my initial comments that is simply not warranted. I'll readily admit it was flippant, and it was intended to be, but it was so in response only to the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism that says everything the U.S. military (as an ins ution) does is good and important and honorable just because someone, somewhere, said so.

I think the flippancy was the main point I was bringing up. I definitely don't agree with the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism either. But I don't think swinging it to the other extreme, where our soldiers are considered idiots in the hands of an evil puppet master, or that soldiers are all monsters, etc etc is very fair either.

[LnGrrrR]

The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

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[chode_regulator]

Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.

Hmmm...I was unaware taht Britain was no longer a player in the international field. Interesting. As for Russia, a of a lot more than just Afghanistan caused their crumble. I would say two factors bigger would the be the cold war with the US as well as the corruption in all levels of their govt.

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.

Actually, when you made the reference about your car being scratched you did exactly this. You quoted Lngrrr who said a military is needed to prevent attacks, he didn't say anything about terrorists. He simply said attacks. I wouldn't expect you to remember all teh way back a few posts though.

Is the purpose of this war, then, to ensure that Iraq is a more accommodating tourist destination? There are tons of countries that hate us, why are we not at war with all of them?

The specific comment to which I was responding was that our troops were currently at war to protect my freedoms. Being liked and welcomed with warm hugs and puppy dogs in every corner of the globe isn't a freedom.



If you can find me a single post where I said specifically that we don't need a military or that soldiers love killing women and children, I'll stop posting in this thread.

Well why only reference the innocents killed? It's a ing war, happens.

Why don't you get on the internet and complain about how McChrystals gotty rules directly led to 8 Marines getting killed because they weren't allowed to call in a direct air support attack due to them being too close to a village. 8 Americans died because that didn't want to risk losing one collateral damage casualty. 8 Americans that whether or not they wanted to be in Afghanistan or not died. Go about that, oh wait, you don't care...that's right.

Take a look back in history jsut a short while ago to 'nam. How many innocents died then? What about WWII? It continually goes down yet will never be perfect. Thankfully we have people like you to point this out though. We could be flying B 52's over there and dropping thousands of lbs of bombs at a time and completely decimating their country, but we don't. , even if those s are in a mosque and shooting at us, can't return fire and sure as can't go in after.

As the great Jack Nicholson says, "I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post."