Buck Harvey: Got Nazr? The trade shows life

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No, that just means you don't realize how badly Nazr was playing, it wasn't just because Marks had a better game

Jesus H. Christ. You've gone two pages on this thread and four on the other ing about how Nazr played three weeks ago.

Who gives a ? I sure don't. Get over it.

So far the only legitimate gripe you have is that we're not going to be the one seed in the west (but you're not credible in saying Malik being here would have changed that), and we've already proven we can win at Phoenix.

If we don't beat Phoenix (should we play them), it will be because our players didn't play their best and our coaches didn't coach their best, not because Malik, six five in heels, Rose isn't around.

[whottt]

What happened to the Knicks' tank job anyway?

It's still in effect, and they are still in line to get Taft if they don't win the lottery. They were locked in above 6 spot period, right now they are 7th with 2 games to go...

You gotta realize...it's not like Williams is tanking it...he wants a coaching career...and it's not like the players are really tanking it, Malik Rose isn't gonna tank.

To tank, unless you are the Rockets, you deal yourself a bad hand and try and win with it...Tim Thomas saying he wasn't going to play the rest of the season was the tank IMO...He is Isiah's boy and he is in a contract year...

What is interesting is that he came back...I wonder if he started feeling insecure.

[whottt]

Jesus H. Christ. You've gone two pages on this thread and four on the other ing about how Nazr played three weeks ago.

Um, I am just responding to lame ass points...

Who gives a ? I sure don't. Get over it.

Then why do you keep responding...

So far the only legitimate gripe you have is that we're not going to be the one seed in the west (but you're not credible in saying Malik being here would have changed that), and we've already proven we can win at Phoenix.

We haven't beaten Phoenix since we traded Malik...and Malik played well against them...he matches up well with Amare.

If we don't beat Phoenix (should we play them), it will be because our players didn't play their best and our coaches didn't coach their best, not because Malik, six five in heels, Rose isn't around.

You need to take a good look at our road record and see if you think stupid pride will help more than HCA throughtou...especially since the Spurs have won like 1 playoff series in their entire history in which they did not have HCA.

HCA gives you the luxury of dropping a game at home and being able to make it up on the road...if you don't have HCA you have no margin for error.

[ChumpDumper]

Tanking teams don't go on three game win streaks to tie themselves with two other teams in a worse lotto position.

Thomas has another year after this one.

[whottt]

Tanking teams don't go on three game win streaks to tie themselves with two other teams in a worse lotto position.

The Knicks haven't won 3 games in a row...they've won two, really 1 since one of them was against the Hornets. Their draft position is virtually unchanged(like 1 spot, not 2) and they can actually move up higher thanks to GoldenState.

Thomas has another year after this one.

Well now that is curious isn't it...I gotta admit that a big part of the reason I saw a tank was because it's very unusual for a player like Thomas to willingly miss the rest of the season, in a bad season, in a contract year...but I am still convinced that his removal from the lineup was a tank coming from the top...let's just see what happens in the final two games...

[MadDog73]

whottt, I want you to say honestly that you think Malik > Mohammad.

[ChumpDumper]

they've won two

Right, the standings were updated faster than I thought. As I said though, winning those put them in a virtual dead heat with GS and Toronto.

I'm just not sure Zeke's job is so secure as to justify a tank job.

[whottt]

whottt, I want you to say honestly that you think Malik > Mohammad.

I honestly think Malik>Mohammed. Maybe not next season, or for our financial future, but specifically for winning a le this season...IMO Malik>>>>>Nazr...

That migh change...but it's not going to be because of numbers Nazr puts up as a starter...comparing stats between two bench players and making a big deal about slight differences is pointless...Bench players are going to have inconistency and misleading stats...

So basically it's about intagibles and non statistical things...

Experience - Edge Malik

Health - Since that groin is still kind of iffy(and least according to the Nazr jockers like TPark every time Nazr has a bad game) - Edge Malik

Toughness - Draw...and that's a high complement for Nazr. But he is tough.

Fearlessness - I give that edge to Nazr...Malik wasn't afraid of pressure...but sometiems Malik tried to hard, Nazr doesn't seem to do that. That's both a + and a - for Nazr, as we will see when we get to..


Desire - Malik always had desire, he always wanted to be the man, he always burned to win. Nazr seems like he is content whereever and whenever, and he doesn't want to be the man, that's what got him traded, like a lot of players...Losing in New York is driving Malik insane...Edge - Malik

I just think Malik has more intangibles...not to mention health and experience...and I think those things are more important in the post season, especially for bench players, than just about anything else..They are comparable rebounders and scorers, with NAzr being the better garbage man and o rebounder and Malik being quicker defender and having a better J...Nazr has a size advantage...but Malik has just about everything else working in his favor.

[ducks]

spurs lost games with a healthy team with rose they should have won
they lost games with nazr they should have won when everyone was healthy
that is why they might not get number one seed
and the spurs sure as do not need it to win it all

[MadDog73]

If Spurs win the Championship, and Nazr puts up decent numbers, then will he better that Malik?

[whottt]

IF Nazr has some games like had for us recently...off the bench, and in crucial situations, like Malik has done...he will be > Malik. He doesn't have to do it every game...but he needs to do it at least once when we need it done.

If he doesn't get that opporunity then I won't hold that against him.

But if he does...and he plays clueless, I don't mean numbers either..I mean getting lost like he has been most of his stint here...I am gonna and I am gonna ask for someone to tell me when Malik ever failed like that in the playoffs.

[ducks]

to bad we can not compare the 2 in what they do in the playoffs THIS YEAR.


this spurs team is deeper then any postseason team that the spurs had with rose in postseason

[picnroll]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.

[Ginobilly]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.

I agree 100% with this.

Malik got his contract and playing time by playing with lots of energy and pesky defense and outworking people for offensive rebounds while getting about 9 pr 10 points off garbage buckets. The way Eduardo Najera plays now is the way Malik used to play and the one Pop loved. Somewhere along the way something got into Malik's head that he was Charles Barkley or Time Duncan and that's were he started to get on Pop's nerves. Launching more shots which took away touches from Manu and Parker and tried to do too much. And he stoped playing that pesky defense and outworking people for those offensive rebounds he was known for.
That's what made the trade a lot easier. If he would stuck to his role I don't think he would of been traded.

Ya'll know that Bowen has improved his mid range shot now and is taking it to the hole a little bit more. Well, what if just because of that he decideds to stop playing his rashy feared defense and start playing more offense instead and take shots away from Manu and Parker. You know a turnover is waiting to happened and missed freethrows too if Bowen starts going outside his role. He just doesn't have the skills that a Manu or Parker has. What do you think Pop will do to him? Invite him to his Doghouse and see if he snaps out of it. Malik never did and that's what made the trade a lot easier cause he hardly ever played anymore.

[TheWriter]

I've never seen such a thread where one dumbass is getting his ass kicked in an argument yet does not give up.

Bravo!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.

Well picnroll about covered it. The only thing I have to add is that Nazr doesn't need "touches" on offense to get his points - he gets them off the offensive glass, whereas Rose felt that whenever he caught the ball, it was shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, and then once in a great while the fourth option changed from shooting to passing. Not what you need out of post men not named Tim.

[whottt]

Well picnroll about covered it. The only thing I have to add is that Nazr doesn't need "touches" on offense to get his points - he gets them off the offensive glass, whereas Rose felt that whenever he caught the ball, it was shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, and then once in a great while the fourth option changed from shooting to passing. Not what you need out of post men not named Tim.

We can't run plays to give Nazr touches...he has no freaking post game..or jumpshot. I wasn't a big fan of that offense either though so I am not argue with you on this point...I didn't like it either...and I still don't.

And get real about Nazr's steadiness...the guy has had a couple of good games...he's also sucked and failed to even be effective at garbage work...go tell the Knicks he was steady...he's never been steady in his entire career...his seasons go all over the place in just about every area.


Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

Don't give me this stuff on passing, Nazr has averaged more minutes per game than Malik in his career and has one of the worst assist per game totals ever. Keep it real.

[picnroll]

Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

Nazr is a better man on and off the ball defender than Malik. He is a better post defender. He is a better shot blocker/alterer. He now understands the system some and will understand it even better as the playoffs progress. That's not a fluke. It's not something that comes and goes like Malik's J.

[whottt]

It's also something he's done for 1 game....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

That's all we need out of any of our post players not named Tim.

As for defense, Nazr's played better D on a perennial matchup problem for the Spurs in Pau Gasol than Malik could have come up with on his PS2.

[picnroll]

Nope. He did it against Portland. He did it some against Utah (he was not the one abused by Okur). He did it some against the Clips. He's showing steady progress. He's not wandering around on D looking lost. His help defense, showing then getting back to his man, is near Robinsonesque as I said before.

[td4mvp21]

We can't run plays to give Nazr touches...he has no freaking post game..or jumpshot. I wasn't a big fan of that offense either though so I am not argue with you on this point...I didn't like it either...and I still don't.

And get real about Nazr's steadiness...the guy has had a couple of good games...he's also sucked and failed to even be effective at garbage work...go tell the Knicks he was steady...he's never been steady in his entire career...his seasons go all over the place in just about every area.


Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

Don't give me this stuff on passing, Nazr has averaged more minutes per game than Malik in his career and has one of the worst assist per game totals ever. Keep it real.

8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 blocks......why are you complaining? He's done that the past several games, too. Don't know if Malik could have done that........

[whottt]

Right, the standings were updated faster than I thought. As I said though, winning those put them in a virtual dead heat with GS and Toronto.

I'm just not sure Zeke's job is so secure as to justify a tank job.

I know what you think Zeke should be doing but if you think his edict from MGMT is to get under the cap and rebuild you are way off base...Cutting payrole immediately will not get them under the cap...their concern is not getting under the cap, you won't ever see them under the cap...the ways they have of aquiring talent are taking on salary, trades, and draft, and they are doing all those things...Isiah got them back into the post season in his first year and he's upgraded the talent tremendously...He has one edict...and that's to win. But no I don't think they expected him to solve the Knicks preexisting problems in a year and a half...only a Chump thinks that.

Stop looking at the Knicks situation as if it is the Spurs...they don't have to go the small market route and their fan base wouldn't go for it anyway...besides...that route hasn't didn't work too quickly for the Bulls..and it hasn't worked for the Hawks...or the Clippers, ever.

And who knows what their goal is with that lottery pick...I don't think they want Bogut anyway, I think they want Taft and if they can't get him I think they'll try to do a trade for a Superstar.



Anatomy of a tank job:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/gameup...meId=250417018

Check out the fouls and remember they were playing a back to back.

If I was tanking the last ing guy I would want on the court was Malik Rose...yes he might suck...but he won't quit and if he has his a game he can put up numbers better than Nazr has on his best day.

On top of that, they are doing everything they can to limit his effectiveness...they got him playing 20 feet away from the basket...they put his ass on LeBron James the other night...and they won!

In the other game Ariza got DNPCD with no explanation....

They are tanking it but you can't just be blatant about it, and if you over do it in NY the fans go ape and call for your head...and you can't just come out to the players and tell them to tank...you'll ruin them for the future and get in a lot of trouble if someone breaks the news...You are looking for obvious signs of a tank and teams don't do it in obvious ways. They deal themselves a bad hand and try to win with it...that's how it is done.

[spurster]

Wow. I'm starting to think that Malik is even better than the Coyote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

lol, Malik's DNP-CDs were all a plot by Pop to get rid of an overplayed role player.

Now it happens in NY, and it's all a plot for the #1 pick

Only you whott, only you...