Matt Bonner - Lucky or Good?

[phyzik]

can't wait till the Spurmz don't resign Bonner and the Lakers pick him up. He plays alongside Bynum or Gasol and lights it up from 3 and when your old asses are trying to close out he drops it in to one of the bigs and the posterize your lame asses. And then when you try to help and double team we kick it out to Bonner to drop a killer 3 in your face. Can't wait till Bonner gets on a good team and all you dumb assholes start saying, "Pop is a ing asshole for giving up Bonner, it's his fault that Bonner never developed into the star he is in L.A. OH GOD it hurts so bad to get beaten by a player I said I hated. I'm so ing stupid"

You assholes have a great above-average role player that can stretch a defense, your team just can't capitalize on his skill set by playing a wicked post-up game. Your complaining about the wrong teammate. Idiots. Spurmz. If you new anything about basketball you'd be greatful for his presence and effort, you'd realize who the real problem was and then promptly shut the up.
but by all means don't stop acting like jackasses, it's really entertaining to see you es your pants cause you can't figure out why your beloved Spurmz are LOSING.

Here's an example. Your mother-
she has a small mouth(even though she talks too much)
I don't slap her and call her a cause my is too big for her mouth. She still has a silky tongue and gives it all on her knees. Who am I to expect her mouth to just grow without me violently face- ing her?
It is what it is, the tries her giving oral and even though her vajajay is too loose(from popping your fatass out) she gives it her all and her butthole is tight so while one of her holes is superior, she works hard using the other two so all in all she's a great wednesday night. Hump Day is always good. I would never take her out on friday, cause I know her ceiling. We've been able to maintian a healthy relationship this way. and with my 7 day rotation of different talents I have an enjoyable week.

Laker Nation

Hi Jeff.

[androck]

Matt Bonner is a valuable player because he hits the 3-pt shot at a very high percentage and he causes the opposing team's C or PF to defend him on the perimeter rather than in the paint. This opens up the games of TP and Manu in particular as well as helps Tim since he gets doubled in the low post less often. His value on the offensive end of the court greatly outweighs his defensive liabilities. His biggest weakness is in defending big men that can hit the mid-range jumper (Dirk, David West, Lamarcus, etc.)

[Borosai]

Matty!!!

[IcemanCometh]

Matt Bonner couldn't guard a white basketball player

[SequSpur]

Matt Bonner couldn't guard a white basketball player

Ditto.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, we don't expect you to, Sequ.

[SequSpur]

[FkLA]

The red hair, lack of athleticism, and awkwardness of Matt just bothers alot of people...I think he plays good D he is just not athetic and the refs have no respect for him at all. Ive seen numerous plays already this season where he gets called for a foul and he has his hands straight up in the air. On offense aside from his 3s he's also pretty decent at penetrating once he pump fakes, and either finishing or finding an open man.

I like the Red Rocket. I think he's a nice asset to have.

[SequSpur]

The red hair, lack of athleticism, and awkwardness of Matt just bothers alot of people...I think he plays good D he is just not athetic and the refs have no respect for him at all. Ive seen numerous plays already this season where he gets called for a foul and he has his hands straight up in the air. On offense aside from his 3s he's also pretty decent at penetrating once he pump fakes, and either finishing or finding an open man.

I like the Red Rocket. I think he's a nice asset to have.

So why have him on the team then? 90 percent of the NBA can hit an open 3 and 100% of them can miss them...

He doesn't get respect because he doesn't belong.

[jdev82]

Last season, Matt Bonner led the Spurs in +/- with a +338. He also led the team in +/- per minute with a +.175. Fluke, right?

Well this season, Bonner is at it again. He leads the team in +/- with a +43. He leads the team in +/- per minute with a +.211.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but I'm interested in more opinions. Why do you think this is the case? Is Matt Bonner really a much more important part of the team than he's it appears? Is it because the Spurs need a three-point shooting bigman next to Tim Duncan to operate smoothly? Is it just a matter of luck and evidence that +/- should be ignored?

I'm not sure where I stand. The sample size is getting quite large to just say it's a fluke.

Hmmm . . .

great. plus minus numbers. those are awesome. buddy, alls i know about bonners play is hes played good d, rebounded nicely, and filled his role well past few games, but he cost us two straight games with his mistakes down the stretch. not fouling in dallas, fouling against utah. matt bonner. i hope he chokes on a hoagie.

[kace]

for me, it could be:

1. he often plays with the best spurs
2. he's better and more useful than people think (a good bench player/15 mpg player)
3. he plays more in good situations (easy wins, blowout, garbage time, a lot of open 3's allowed by a weak perimeter defending team.... all those situations who increase the +/- stat) (not sure about that one but from what i remember, could be true)

[sabar]

Fact is, he puts up more points than he allows, despite what the horde of new posters would claim. He has done so every season in the NBA. His highly accurate 3-point shot led the spurs in points per 100 possessions on the Spurs last year -- by a large margin at that.

His excellent plus/minus is from a combination of factors, including:

1. A very accurate 3 pt shot
2. Frequently getting open looks
3. Playing with good line-ups
4. Having serviceable defense

Looking into stats in the past, Bonner is not the only 3 point shooter to have a large margin of offense over defense. Brent Barry and Horry also put up more points than they gave at a high clip. I don't have plus-minus for those years though.

Bonner is good, as a role player. He does his role perfectly without being a defensive sieve. I have no idea how that rumor ever started. Its just average D, but he shoots so well that it is good enough.

[phxspurfan]

What was MJ's career +/-? I'd bet it was just ok since the early bulls lost a lot of games. I'd say Bonner's +/- is a fluke and if he were on a bad team that lost a lot he'd be much more average.

[xtremesteven33]

Bonner is playing great right now so his trade value is as high as it has ever been.....thats the only benefit of him playing well right now.

[Big P]

Bonner is playing great right now so his trade value is as high as it has ever been.....thats the only benefit of him playing well right now.

Great?? His defense is non existant, he got lit up for 30+ when he was "guarding" dirk. Not sure what you are seeing, but I would call his play far from "great".

[neboat]

My concern with bonner is this: it seems a lot of us feel he is a nice player during the regular season...but during the playoffs his defense will be exposed and his offensive opportunities will diminish. And since he doesn't bring much else to the table, he becomes a liability in the playoffs.

Alright, if that is indeed the case, then it's something we need to solve!!! What good is Bonner if he's an integral piece to our offensive, but is only good in the regular season and not the playoffs?

[androck]

I was looking at the adjusted plus/minus numbers for San Antonio last year here:

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...year=2008-2009

and was surprised to see Matt Bonner led the team in 1-year adjusted plus/minus (of course, this would not have been the case if Manu were healthy all year since he's off the charts in APM). Not only are his numbers on the offensive end great, his defense was actually a -1.94 for the year (negative is good).

For 2009, he is once again leading the team in APM although there really haven't been enough games to make much of a conclusion. Here's hoping his numbers from last year continue!

[ElNono]

Ime Udoka... really?

If you want to give props to Matt, this is the number to highlight:

47.3%

Or even 44% from last season...

[androck]

The number to highlight is "4" which I want to see become "5". I'm interested in determining which players can help us get to 5. Matt Bonner is definitely one of those players although I'm not saying he's on the level of Tim, Tony, Manu, or even RJ.

I think it's pretty clear looking at last year's APM who is not helping the team and still getting a ton of minutes: Mike Finley.

[lurker23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139947

Also:

http://www.48minutesof .com/?gcid...inutes+of+ (however, 48MOH server is having issues at the moment; a snipet of the article can be found at the Daily Dime linked below, in box #8)

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...3/seeding-west

[tav1]

The Daily Dime thing is by Varner and is a stand alone about Bonner, written after last night's game. The 48MoH piece is by Gordian and is a game recap.

[NFGIII]

He's not mobile, he can't jump, he's really just a non-athletic white guy. It's sometimes tough to watch him play...but he constantly outworks people. It's easy to figure out why people don't like watching him play, and that's cause it's not pretty.

People get frustrated with him due to unrealistic expectations. He's a big man who plays outside...you can't really expect too much out of him.

That being said, he works hard and he knows his role. By knowing his role and recognizing his limitations, it allows him to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.

Good bench player who knows his role. We have enough stars so we need good role players on this team. So far he is one of them. Hopefully he can stay this consistent over the whole season. If so imagine his stats then!

Fact is, he puts up more points than he allows, despite what the horde of new posters would claim. He has done so every season in the NBA. His highly accurate 3-point shot led the spurs in points per 100 possessions on the Spurs last year -- by a large margin at that.

His excellent plus/minus is from a combination of factors, including:

1. A very accurate 3 pt shot
2. Frequently getting open looks
3. Playing with good line-ups
4. Having serviceable defense

Looking into stats in the past, Bonner is not the only 3 point shooter to have a large margin of offense over defense. Brent Barry and Horry also put up more points than they gave at a high clip. I don't have plus-minus for those years though.

Bonner is good, as a role player. He does his role perfectly without being a defensive sieve. I have no idea how that rumor ever started. Its just average D, but he shoots so well that it is good enough.

Agreed. Puts up more than he gives up and fits in as a role player. With his shooting average D is exceptable. Imagine if he could play better D?

And I agree with your statement about the rumor. The majority perception of this board seems to be a little out of whack when it comes to Bonner.

Maybe _Jag hit on it with his point about unrealistic expectations. But I really don't know. All I know, as of now, is that he is playing great coming off the bench and doing what Pop expects of him - hitting the 3 and grabbing some rebounds while playing adequate D. If this could only last the entire season this board would be all over him.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

regardless of these +/- and technical mumbo jumbo. at the end of the day, Sheed will say "just pass the ball to whoever Bonner is guarding"

It's interesting you bring this up because I've noticed this season that teams have a strong tendency to go with the Sheed play when Bonner's in -- i.e. just dump it down to Bonner's man for an iso.

The interesting thing is, I think it's hurting our opponents. He's not THAT easy to score on, the Spurs ARE good at team defense and help, and it takes the offense out of their rhythm and game. Even if they get a couple of buckets or fouls vs. Bonner, I think overall it isn't helping them.

I think the Sheed play works for Sheed, because he's such a talented offensive player. , Duncan has trouble guarding him one-on-one. But others, not so much.

Bonner even did a decent job against Dirk. I think it's because Dirk doesn't have foot speed and that's Bonner's big defensive liability, guarding quick players.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

That statistic is a bunch of bull . Nowitski was +30 in his face last night...more bonner = more losses.

Recognize.

That's more about a coaching decision to not double-team Dirk until late in the game. Dirk will score on just about anyone one-on-one. Bonner actually did a decent job on him.

I think the Spurs would rather Dirk take it one-on-one and stagnate the Mavs' offense, then take the ball out of Dirk's hands at the end, even if they do give up points. This is similar to what they've done with Amare in the playoffs. Even if Amare gets his, it means the rest of the team is stagnant. And they can always switch the D and shut him off in crunch time.

[5in10]

The interesting thing is, I think it's hurting our opponents. He's not THAT easy to score on, the Spurs ARE good at team defense and help, and it takes the offense out of their rhythm and game. Even if they get a couple of buckets or fouls vs. Bonner, I think overall it isn't helping them.

I think the Sheed play works for Sheed, because he's such a talented offensive player. , Duncan has trouble guarding him one-on-one. But others, not so much.

Bonner even did a decent job against Dirk. I think it's because Dirk doesn't have foot speed and that's Bonner's big defensive liability, guarding quick players.

+1 Bonner is a nice asset to have come off the bench, it really opens the floor for duncan and our offense when Bonner is hitting the three ball. Bonner is good at rotating on defense and a lot of the time plays great defense but just isnt long or athletic enough with his t-rex arms to alter the shot.