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As a supporting member, and then as a lead, yes.
I should have clarified and said led his team to championships with very different teams.
Or else we would have to include players like Horry and Rodman.
& Kobe won with two very different teams.
As a supporting member, and then as a lead, yes.
I should have clarified and said led his team to championships with very different teams.
Or else we would have to include players like Horry and Rodman.
Pssh Dream schools Kobe
(literally, like a month ago)
After watching him wreck the best suns teams repeatedly while surrounded by scrubs, I'll go with Hakeem. Dominant on both ends of the floor. Many people like Cassel, Horry, and Kenny owe everything they have to the Dream.
Hakeem owned HoF centers in his career.
Kobe vs who???
It was sweet....
- "It's over."
- A.C. Green - in Houston, up 3-1, heading back to Phoenix.
***Watching Hakeem sternly admonishing Smith for fouling KJ instead of letting him come to Hakeem.
***Elie sternly admonishing Horry not to go after Ainge---after the f'k had thrown the inbounds straight into Elie's face. Horry heard him, waited his chance then threw towel into Coach Ainge's face, summarily exiled to Los Angeles he later put CWEBB & the Adelbrained one to their knees and put a 9MM slug right behind their ear. Just like that.
Ya, I forgot Mario....
***Mario, throwing Colangelo a kiss after he buried that last 3 and the Suns with it.
****Mario, the stupid ass signing in here...then getting humiliating after Colangelo sent him and the rest of the team into area malls to hawk tickets. Good Lord.
Hakeem. I almost always go big man.
I thought it was Joe Kleine, but it could have been Colangelo.
That '95 Rockets team is one of my all-time favorites. Show me a more impressive playoff run against tougher odds. For my money, there isn't one.
No, it was Colangelo.
I thought that series was over at 3-1. Barkley could never close the deal. Not in the '93 Finals and two years later he couldn't.
To build a franchise/championship team around, I'd take Kobe in his prime; hands down.
Hakeem didn't hit his prime until around 32 years old. It's no surprise his prime was short lived...he was already a bit too old. You don't start to build franchises around 32 year old players...especially big men. In his prime, Hakeem was > Jordan > Kobe. This is why Kobe went to see Hakeem over the summer, to learn from the best.
Hakeem was the best, but, by the time Hakeem was 34, he started showing his age with only 2 short prime years.
Kobe on the other hand; we don't even know when his prime is, seems like it's been on-going for 4-5 years already and he's better today than he was 4 years ago. Kobe's leading the league in scoring at a ridiculous (for a SG) 49FG% and 30ppg.
Just like Michael, Kobe took his game to the post after age 30. Many forget MJ didn't win his 4th championship until he was 33 years old and continued to be a dominant player past 36 years old and his 6th ring. And like MJ, I think Kobe's ring last year is just the start of many more to come.
Last edited by Allanon; 11-27-2009 at 06:21 PM.
Ok, I must have confused this thread with the others. I thought you were insinuating that Theodore didn't need a special team to win a le. That you could throw anybody out there and he would win. My bad
I love the Dream, but for longevity I take #24.
One year? Hakeem.
Hakeem, because when in doubt, take the big man (except for oden/durant, but anyone who thought oden was gonna be good is an idiot)
I think Oden's gonna be good. Maybe not HoF'er but a top NBA center.
I'm ok with being an idiot until it happens though.
I think you are mistaken. Oden has blossomed and is recording 11/8 in 24 minutes of playing time and leads all centers in PER. He still gets called for really stupid fouls that has nothing to do with him. Plus, the Blazers are one of the top defensive teams this season and much of it has to do with Oden.
A lot of people must be idiots then. I think about 25 in 30 GM's take Oden, at the least.
Why do you think Hakeem's prime only started when he won his first le?
In his second season in the league, he was already putting up 23/11/3. By his third season, he was already first team all NBA and all NBA defense. He was all NBA first team in 1987, 1988, and 1989 in his third, fourth, and fifth seasons, from the ages of 24 through 26. He won his two rebounding les when he was 26 and 27, the blocked shots les when he was 27, 28, and 30. He started dominating the league very early on in his NBA career.
His very first season in Houston, he helped improve their record from 29 wins to 48 wins, his rookie season. He helped lead the Rockets to a 51 win season by his second season and a trip to the NBA Finals, his second season.
I don't know why you assume Hakeem's prime only started the season he won his first le. It's like suggesting Kobe wasn't in his prime from 2002-03 through 2007-08, from age 24 through 29, because he wasn't winning any les during that time.
Hakeem's prime started much earlier than when he was 32. He was dominating the league a couple seasons into his NBA career. The le years may have been his peak, but his prime was much longer than you suggest.
Hakeem was a good player prior to the championship years but he didn't learn to be a great player until the mid 90's. His 22ppg average through the early part of his career was very mediocre for a superstar. We're comparing Hakeem to Kobe in this discussion...he may have been good compared to other players but not in comparison to Kobe.
Kobe was/is easily better than Hakeem prior to his championship years.
as great as kobe is, the dream carried a pile of crap to a le. but then again, kobe took a even bigger pile of crap to the playoffs, so moot-point?
You can't be serious. Not all superstars are 30 ppg type scorers.
Tim Duncan has only averaged more than 23 ppg once in his career. Are we still waiting for him to be a superstar? Magic Johnson averaged over 22 ppg only three times in his career. Guess Magic was a mediocre superstar too. Your logic fails.
Hakeem's scoring average is actually pretty consistent through the "prime" of his career, starting in his second season. The years he was averaging 26-27 ppg, he was playing around 40 mpg while when he was averaging 22-23 ppg, he was playing around 36 mpg.
He was FIRST TEAM ALL NBA his third, fourth, and fifth at the ages of 24-26. He wasn't just "good" compared to other players. He was the best compared to other players in the league by his third season in the league.
And, while this thread is about comparing Hakeem and Kobe, that's not what I have issue with. I have issue with you suggesting and assuming Hakeem didn't hit his prime until he was 32 in the season when he won his first le. It's blatantly inaccurate to suggest that. And all you have is the fact he was averaging 22 ppg? Well heck, Kobe never averaged double digits in rebounding or assists, so I guess he never had a prime at all.
I'd give a pass to Hakeem on sub-par scoring if he won rings. He was a good player prior to age 32 but not a great player compared to players like Duncan, Magic and Kobe.
Tim Duncan won rings scoring 22ppg, Hakeem did not. Magic won rings scoring 22ppg, Hakeem did not.
So Hakeem neither had outstanding Superstar numbers nor did he win rings.
Kobe's won rings and had oustanding Superstar numbers. Hakeem didn't do this until he was 32 years old and finally put all aspects of his game together.
No comparison really.
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